Originally posted by dmills
I read that as well. But that rule is almost always either flat out ignored or misinterpreted in some way.
Ignored yes, misinterpreted I don't see how. The rule basically states all vibrating, IMPs, time travel, speed well beyond light etc. tactics are game every time.
Flash would have to be depowered in the op by the thread starter so he won't stomp a majority of the characters.
Originally posted by Sundipped
Ignored yes, misinterpreted I don't see how. The rule basically states all vibrating, IMPs, time travel, speed well beyond light etc. tactics are game every time.Flash would have to be depowered in the op by the thread starter so he won't stomp a majority of the characters.
See, I don't agree with that because it has to be tempered by the "in character" rule as well. So if you're going to argue imp's, speed steal etc, then (imo) you're obligared to demonstrate that this is how he'd approach any given battle within the confines of his character. There's got to be a healthy medium. Because if not, I'm going to have a field day opening stargates in/on people and insta damage healing in Nova debates.
Originally posted by quanchi112
The artificial black hole was used to try and kill Thanos, it failed. You can't compare the black holes or plot device attacks such as black holes as evidence here.They all look pre crisis. Gl's aren't anywhere near on the same level of Thanos. Thanos has weathered blasts from Tyrant, Odin, a well nourished Galactus, Maker, etc. Trying to use a black hole feat from most likely precrisis as some means of relevance to these characters is full of fail. It's absurd.
Originally posted by abhilegend
So, it was created to kill thanos and it failed. What's so awesome about it? Nope, some are PC which are canon to gls, some are post crisis and the one with modern art was from GL:recharge. I wasn't talking about those feats, I was talking about how tanking black holes is no big deal.
It depends on the writer. Some writers are more hard sci-fi in their approach and thus a black hole would be written as a big deal. But generally you're prolly right.
Originally posted by dmillsUsing Flash as an example, the rule explains what "in character" means. And, again, it also flat-out states that Flash CAN use the full extent of his speed to blitz his opponents on the outset of the battle.
See, I don't agree with that because it has to be tempered by the "in character" rule as well. So if you're going to argue imp's, speed steal etc, then (imo) you're obligared to demonstrate that this is how he'd approach any given battle within the confines of his character. There's got to be a healthy medium. Because if not, I'm going to have a field day opening stargates in/on people and insta damage healing in Nova debates.
Originally posted by Galan007
Using Flash as an example, the rule explains what "in character" means. And, again, it also flat-out states that Flash CAN use the full extent of his speed to blitz his opponents on the outset of the battle.
I honestly have no beef with that approach if that's what's being argued. But Sundipped was trying to sell IMP'S and speed steals etc right out of the gate.
Those should be a viable tactics...
Full CapacityIt is assumed that each contestant will fight to his/her best ability, but still within the character's personality, unless specified otherwise. That means they will use ANY powers at their disposal. For example, even though The Flash doesn't clock each of his own opponents in the first millisecond in his own comic, it is assumed that is a viable tactic on this board since it is a proven fact that he possesses that level of speed. It is also assumed that the characters fight at their optimum levels of ability - not explicitly weakened or unusually powered up for those who have variable power levels.
And considering for the purposes of this thread, Flash essentially IS the speed force, speed stealing and IMP's would likely be small-time feats for him. /shrug
Originally posted by abhilegend
Tell me about any instance a black hole actually destroys someone.
I don't know about "destroying" someone. I'm talking more along the lines of, "I'd better get the phuck outta here before I get sucked into this black hole" kind of deal. In other words, they'd rather not deal with it.
Originally posted by dmills
I don't know about "destroying" someone. I'm talking more along the lines of, "I'd better get the phuck outta here before I get sucked into this black hole" kind of deal. In other words, they'd rather not deal with it.
Spoiler:
She was amped by galactus
Originally posted by Galan007
Those should be a viable tactics...And considering for the purposes of this thread, Flash essentially IS the speed force, speed stealing and IMP's would likely be small-time feats for him. /shrug
I gotcha. However...
... It is assumed that each contestant will fight to his/her best ability, but still within the character's personality, unless specified otherwise. That means they will use any powers at their disposal. For example, even though The Flash doesn't clock each of his own opponents in the first millisecond in his own comic, it is assumed that is a viable tactic on this board since it is a proven fact that he possesses that level of speed. It is also assumed that the characters fight at their optimum levels of ability - not explicitly weakened or unusually powered up for those who have variable power levels.
Furthermore...
Ok people, here are the finalised rules as regards PIS, CIS, and everything related to it.PIS is, as always, off unless the thread starter says it's ON.
CIS, as was said before, is now a more diverse term, but is not as vague as before.
While CIS stillexistsin theform of characters like Rhino (who are just too stupid to know better), it also existsin one other form.
This is known as CharacterInhibitedPower. This applies to characters that have intelligence, like the Silver Surfer, Superman, and so on and so forth.
As Bada said:
"It's a self imposed limitation in certain circumstances which there is concern for civilians and buildings for the most part. It's not stupidity, it's a limitation set until the threat exceeds a certain threshold."
What this means is that people liketheSurfer and Superman and so on will not usethefull extent of their powers if it will endanger civilians. It doesn't, though, mean they will fight like idiots. The character's personality is an integral part of the match and dictates how they will perform. Thisis the crux of the rules we've come up with. It doesn't come down to powers, it comes down to the man or woman that weildsthem.
In accordance with this, several factors come in to play in debates:
The Opponent, Basic Information, the Arena and the Character's Personality and Experience
Those four are key.
Example:
If Martian Manhunter fights say, Juggernaut.
MM doesn't personally know Juggernaut (Opponent). So he has Basic Information. This is categorised as being what the general public would know about the Juggernaut. It goes by averages. If that average man or woman on the street knows that Juggernaut is super strong, then MM knows. The average man or woman doesn't know, however, that the Juggernaut is weak against psionics. J'onn would approach with caution, not knowing whether Juggernaut was in his weight class, and not knowing the full extent of the man's powers.
However. If Martian Manhunter went up against Amazo, he would know to go for broke right at the start, because he KNOWS Amazo (Personality and Experience). He will usehis speed, his strength, his shapeshifting.Thisis because if he knows what it takes to bring down Amazo, or he believeshisstandard attacks won't work. If J'onn was fighting Juggernaut, there would come a point when he would realise that normal attacks won't work, and would up his game. Any character that doesn't suffer from Rhino-esque stupidity is capable of this. Even with this, though, the Arena comes in to play. If civiliansarein danger,J'onn won't shapeshift in to a fire breathing dragon. Juggernaut on the other hand doesn't care, so wouldn't hesitate to toss cars and trucks full of civilians at the Martian.
Examples:
Thor knows he can't out-brawl Hulk,souses exotic powers sooner than he would against the likes of Superman, as Superman is an unknown to him.
Superman would go all out against Doomsday or Despero because he knows how powerful they are. Against the Hulk, he's going to take a few punches before realising he'll have to use something rather than slugging it out. He won't bathe the street in heat vision either, because there are civiliansnearby.
It ALL comes down to the CHARACTER, not the POWERSET.
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So if the aforementioned tactics fit within that context, I've no problem with it.
Originally posted by dmillsArgument for in character power usage aside in character nothing touches them and they don't tire. In character they are going to do their best to avoid being hit while moving at top speed to make sure they don't get hit. In character they scale up as the fight goes on but they never actually exhaust themselves considering that at the least Barry was running for years at top speed in the Speedforce no need for food or anything. So they will dodge until they scale response that will eventually hit the need for IMP and lightspeed spam punches.
See, I don't agree with that because it has to be tempered by the "in character" rule as well. So if you're going to argue imp's, speed steal etc, then (imo) you're obligared to demonstrate that this is how he'd approach any given battle within the confines of his character. There's got to be a healthy medium. Because if not, I'm going to have a field day opening stargates in/on people and insta damage healing in Nova debates.
Originally posted by Uriel005
Argument for in character power usage aside in character nothing touches them and they don't tire. In character they are going to do their best to avoid being hit while moving at top speed to make sure they don't get hit. In character they scale up as the fight goes on but they never actually exhaust themselves considering that at the least Barry was running for years at top speed in the Speedforce no need for food or anything. So they will dodge until they scale response that will eventually hit the need for IMP and lightspeed spam punches.
Sounds reasonable enough.
Originally posted by dmillsRight. In the case of someone like Flash it means he WILL use his powers to their best, but he wouldn't do anything that might directly kill them--as killing an opponent WOULD be out of character. However blitzing, speed stealing, speed force dumping, and IMP'ing are tactics he's used before (w/o killing his opponent.) There is absolutely no reason to assume he wouldn't use those abilities in a forum battle--especially when the rules explicitly use him as an example of 'going all out'.
I gotcha. However...Furthermore...
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So if the aforementioned tactics fit within that context, I've no problem with it.
That's how I interpret it, at least. /shrug
Originally posted by Galan007
Right. In the case of someone like Flash it means he WILL use his powers to their best, but he wouldn't do anything that might directly kill them--as killing an opponent WOULD be out of character. However blitzing, speed stealing, speed force dumping, and IMP'ing are tactics he's used before (w/o killing his opponent.) There is absolutely no reason to assume he wouldn't use those abilities in a forum battle--especially when the rules explicitly use him as an example of 'going all out'.That's how I interpret it, at least. /shrug