Odin vs DC Team

This team isn't "destroying" Odin. And that scan from Fear Itself, iirc, was originally posted in some thread as an attempt to discredit or other prove that Odin can't effect time...even though he's done it multiple times in the past under various writers and has even been recently depicted in doing so through flashbacks.

Like I said before, Odin doesn't need to enter "galaxy busting" mode or "shaking the multiverse" mode to beat this team. He's beyond high heralds, and easily at that. His simple blasts put out beings such as Annihilus, Silver Surfer, or Thor without much effort. Throwing a bunch of them at him would likely just encourage him to just say "Phuck it", which would make things worse.

^you opinion. Mine differs.
😐

So how many Trans beings does it take to defeat a Skyfather and how many Heralds?

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
^you opinion. Mine differs.
😐

So how many Trans beings does it take to defeat a Skyfather and how many Heralds?

Opinion based off of on panel evidence.

Depends on the beings in question. You'll never get a bonafide "It takes x amount of High Heralds to beat Skyfather _________" type answer. It doesn't work that way like an across the board mathematical equation.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Opinion based off of on panel evidence.

Depends on the beings in question. You'll never get a bonafide "It takes x amount of High Heralds to beat Skyfather _________" type answer. It doesn't work that way like an across the board mathematical equation.

An Opinion based on the on panel showing of ONE side and ignoring the showings of the other side. 😐 So, sorry if it isn't worth that much imo.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
An Opinion based on the on panel showing of ONE side and ignoring the showings of the other side. 😐 So, sorry if it isn't worth that much imo.

I'm not ignoring the showings of the other side.

Fact of the matter is that Odin is well above High Heralds, period. He literally expends no effort in casting them aside, BFRing them with a gesture, physically one upping them, mindraping them, stripping them of power, etc. And a lot of that he does while weakened. Throwing a bunch of heralds at him doesn't really do much to improve those odds. Do heralds have good showings against Skyfather and beyond beings? Of course they do, usually in the form of high showings and/or when holding nothing back. Of course, by that same token, Odin's high end and no holding back feats are likewise ridiculous and include the previously mentioned feats of busting galaxies and shaking the multiverse.

So, again, I'm not sure if you're looking for a definite answer to the query "How many heralds does it take to beat a Skyfather" because it's not as simple as just throwing a bunch of them at him till he gets overwhelmed.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I'm not ignoring the showings of the other side.

Fact of the matter is that Odin is well above High Heralds, period. He literally expends no effort in casting them aside, BFRing them with a gesture, physically one upping them, mindraping them, stripping them of power, etc. And a lot of that he does while weakened. Throwing a bunch of heralds at him doesn't really do much to improve those odds. Do heralds have good showings against Skyfather and beyond beings? Of course they do, usually in the form of high showings and/or when holding nothing back. Of course, by that same token, Odin's high end and no holding back feats are likewise ridiculous and include the previously mentioned feats of busting galaxies and shaking the multiverse.

So, again, I'm not sure if you're looking for a definite answer to the query "How many heralds does it take to beat a Skyfather" because it's not as simple as just throwing a bunch of them at him till he gets overwhelmed.

But you do.

He is, but those aren't your normal High Heralds. And they tanked worse then a single blast from Odin... stop kidding yourself. Odin isn't just oneshooting someone like Orion, Superman or Hal Jordan at their best... In a comic I can even see Hal using a Kronabuster attack to finish Odin vin.

I'm searching for reason behind this overrationg of Skyfathers in general and Odin in particular... nothing else. But I won't find it I guess.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
But you do.

He is, but those aren't your normal High Heralds. And they tanked worse then a single blast from Odin... stop kidding yourself. Odin isn't just oneshooting someone like Orion, Superman or Hal Jordan at their best... In a comic I can even see Hal using a Kronabuster attack to finish Odin vin.

I'm searching for reason behind this overrationg of Skyfathers in general and Odin in particular... nothing else. But I won't find it I guess.

...how?

Silver Surfer and Thor aren't normal high heralds? I, for one, don't think that just because Odin has shown the capability to easily get rid of them or treat them as non-threats that doesn't mean that Thor or Surfer were "jobbing" or let Odin beat them down. Because for all the talk of "heralds at their best can fight skyfathers and do well" that same line of logic applies to the skyfathers themselves. They survived worse that a single blast from Odin? Okay. Odin has crushed people way worse than a mere high herald being. baka At Odin's best, he's obliterating Orion, Superman, and Hal Jordan, all at the same time. Kronabuster has next to no relevance to begin with seeing as Odin isn't, well, y'know, Krona.

Not sure how they're overrated outside of you just claiming that they are and not willing to accept that by your own "at their best" line of logic, Odin is still above non holding back high heralds. So what specific instances come to mind that support overrating of Skyfathers and Odin in particular?

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
...how?

Silver Surfer and Thor aren't normal high heralds? I, for one, don't think that just because Odin has shown the capability to easily get rid of them or treat them as non-threats that doesn't mean that Thor or Surfer were "jobbing" or let Odin beat them down. Because for all the talk of "heralds at their best can fight skyfathers and do well" that same line of logic applies to the skyfathers themselves. They survived worse that a single blast from Odin? Okay. Odin has crushed people way worse than a mere high herald being. baka At Odin's best, he's obliterating Orion, Superman, and Hal Jordan, all at the same time. Kronabuster has next to no relevance to begin with seeing as Odin isn't, well, y'know, Krona.

Not sure how they're overrated outside of you just claiming that they are and not willing to accept that by your own "at their best" line of logic, Odin is still above non holding back high heralds. So what specific instances come to mind that support overrating of Skyfathers and Odin in particular?

By simply putting them in the same ballpark.

No they aren't. But they were jobbing as they took far worse. Yes it does and going by both at their best he won't crush them bored. No he isn't except in your imagination. As for your Krona argumentation... Odin one shooting SS has next to no relevance, as well, y'know SS ain't Superman or Orion dur.

I have no problem to see a Skyfather or Trans being over a Herald or two, but a Team of some of the best who had feats worth of Trans or Skyfatherbeings themselves? Who even fought Skyfathers or Trans beings for some time? I'm not that delusional, sry Jake, I'm not willing to accept YOUR point of view, it lacks reasoning and facts.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
By simply putting them in the same ballpark.

No they aren't. But they were jobbing as they took far worse. Yes it does and going by both at their best he won't crush them bored. No he isn't except in your imagination. As for your Krona argumentation... Odin one shooting SS has next to no relevance, as well, y'know SS ain't Superman or Orion dur.

I have no problem to see a Skyfather or Trans being over a Herald or two, but a Team of some of the best who had feats worth of Trans or Skyfatherbeings themselves? Who even fought Skyfathers or Trans beings for some time? I'm not that delusional, sry Jake, I'm not willing to accept YOUR point of view, it lacks reasoning and facts.

What are you talking about? Are you saying I should put non-holding back high heralds in the same ballpark as a non-holding back skyfather?

How are they not "normal" high heralds? Are you saying they're elite high heralds or not elite or something else? Because just like Thor and Surfer represent the top of their respective class of power, so, too, does Odin. So, no, him being able to one shot them isn't them jobbing, not when its the normal depiction of power difference between them. So, yes, he would one shot the vast majority of this team, if we go by Odin's best, which you seem hesitant or refuse to be doing so. He's well above high heralds according to on panel evidence and the reality of the situation. Just saying that under the "at their best" clause they're in the same league as him doesn't cut it, because Odin at his best is as much above them as he is above them at "normal" depictions. You can't have it both ways. The Kronabuster has no relevance here as Odin isn't an other unremarkable Guardian of the Universe controlling Ion and other entities with a special safeguard implemented to protect him against a Lantern who would kill him. Hal having the willpower to breach through specific defenses/abilities =/= Hal having the means to one shot kill any character short of abstract.

Yeah, well, sorry, but I don't subscribe to the idea that if you just throw a bunch of heralds at a skyfather, the numbers game somehow makes it even, not when said skyfather repeatedly shows himself to be beyond high heralds while holding back or weakened. That's a terrible line of thought to apply, especially here. My reasoning doesn't lack reasoning and it sure as hell doesn't lack facts, either. If a high herald consistently shows the ability to be able to fight skyfathers to a draw or beat them, well, I guess they're not high heralds anymore, are they? Citing high end feats as the norm and as accurate representations of power while simultaneously making the argument that "Odin and skyfathers are overrated" (which you haven't elaborated on besides claiming that my stance isn't backed by reasoning or facts) does you no favor, especially when you don't take into account how your same approach to the team also works in Odin's favor.

To further elaborate, this idea that every time that Odin easily dismissed Thor or Silver Surfer or another herald being as an instance of them "jobbing" is pretty ridiculous. That's the consistent display of power difference between them and painting it as jobbing or PIS or anything but the norm of how such an encounter would go is disingenuous and completely inaccurate.

Do Thor/Surfer (and heralds in general) have better feats than being pawned by the All-Father? Sure. But you're seriously deluding yourself if you think Odin's best is being able to beat Thor down like a child or one shot Silver Surfer with little effort.

High end feats are high end feats for a reason, and they apply to skyfathers such as Odin just as much as they do the herald class of beings like Thor, Silver Surfer, Superman, and Green Lantern.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
What are you talking about? Are you saying I should put non-holding back high heralds in the same ballpark as a non-holding back skyfather?

How are they not "normal" high heralds? Are you saying they're elite high heralds or not elite or something else? Because just like Thor and Surfer represent the top of their respective class of power, so, too, does Odin. So, no, him being able to one shot them isn't them jobbing, not when its the normal depiction of power difference between them. So, yes, he would one shot the vast majority of this team, if we go by Odin's best, which you seem hesitant or refuse to be doing so. He's well above high heralds according to on panel evidence and the reality of the situation. Just saying that under the "at their best" clause they're in the same league as him doesn't cut it, because Odin at his best is as much above them as he is above them at "normal" depictions. You can't have it both ways. The Kronabuster has no relevance here as Odin isn't an other unremarkable Guardian of the Universe controlling Ion and other entities with a special safeguard implemented to protect him against a Lantern who would kill him. Hal having the willpower to breach through specific defenses/abilities =/= Hal having the means to one shot kill any character short of abstract.

Yeah, well, sorry, but I don't subscribe to the idea that if you just throw a bunch of heralds at a skyfather, the numbers game somehow makes it even, not when said skyfather repeatedly shows himself to be beyond high heralds while holding back or weakened. That's a terrible line of thought to apply, especially here. My reasoning doesn't lack reasoning and it sure as hell doesn't lack facts, either. If a high herald consistently shows the ability to be able to fight skyfathers to a draw or beat them, well, I guess they're not high heralds anymore, are they? Citing high end feats as the norm and as accurate representations of power while simultaneously making the argument that "Odin and skyfathers are overrated" (which you haven't elaborated on besides claiming that my stance isn't backed by reasoning or facts) does you no favor, especially when you don't take into account how your same approach to the team also works in Odin's favor.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
To further elaborate, this idea that every time that Odin easily dismissed Thor or Silver Surfer or another herald being as an instance of them "jobbing" is pretty ridiculous. That's the consistent display of power difference between them and painting it as jobbing or PIS or anything but the norm of how such an encounter would go is disingenuous and completely inaccurate.

Do Thor/Surfer (and heralds in general) have better feats than being pawned by the All-Father? Sure. But you're seriously deluding yourself if you think Odin's best is being able to beat Thor down like a child or one shot Silver Surfer with little effort.

High end feats are high end feats for a reason, and they apply to skyfathers such as Odin just as much as they do the herald class of beings like Thor, Silver Surfer, Superman, and Green Lantern.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Calm down jake.

I'm perfectly calm. I just (strongly) disagree with the line of logic Batman-Prime's using in support for the team as it completely contradicts what we see in comics the vast majority of the time.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
What are you talking about? Are you saying I should put non-holding back high heralds in the same ballpark as a non-holding back skyfather?

How are they not "normal" high heralds? Are you saying they're elite high heralds or not elite or something else? Because just like Thor and Surfer represent the top of their respective class of power, so, too, does Odin. So, no, him being able to one shot them isn't them jobbing, not when its the normal depiction of power difference between them. So, yes, he would one shot the vast majority of this team, if we go by Odin's best, which you seem hesitant or refuse to be doing so. He's well above high heralds according to on panel evidence and the reality of the situation. Just saying that under the "at their best" clause they're in the same league as him doesn't cut it, because Odin at his best is as much above them as he is above them at "normal" depictions. You can't have it both ways. The Kronabuster has no relevance here as Odin isn't an other unremarkable Guardian of the Universe controlling Ion and other entities with a special safeguard implemented to protect him against a Lantern who would kill him. Hal having the willpower to breach through specific defenses/abilities =/= Hal having the means to one shot kill any character short of abstract.

Yeah, well, sorry, but I don't subscribe to the idea that if you just throw a bunch of heralds at a skyfather, the numbers game somehow makes it even, not when said skyfather repeatedly shows himself to be beyond high heralds while holding back or weakened. That's a terrible line of thought to apply, especially here. My reasoning doesn't lack reasoning and it sure as hell doesn't lack facts, either. If a high herald consistently shows the ability to be able to fight skyfathers to a draw or beat them, well, I guess they're not high heralds anymore, are they? Citing high end feats as the norm and as accurate representations of power while simultaneously making the argument that "Odin and skyfathers are overrated" (which you haven't elaborated on besides claiming that my stance isn't backed by reasoning or facts) does you no favor, especially when you don't take into account how your same approach to the team also works in Odin's favor.

Keep it shorter, it's almost to long.

I'm saying that going by the feats of the Heralds listed and the feats of Odin, I don't see him oneshooting them.

By KMC they are high Heralds. Their feats put them, well, above imho. It's jobbing if they took worse from greater beings then Odin and were oneshooted by him, simple, really. And if it's now a vast majority we are making progress, at least. As for Krona, well he took down Galactus quite easy, where Odin, well headbutted himself for an ko. 😐 Hal having the willpower and a weapon based on willpower and the feats and intent to kill, it counts for nothing, yeah I forgot. They face him also one at a time, because they are polite...

Yeah, well, sorry, but I don't subscribe to the idea that if you just throw a skyfather (even Odin) against a number of some of the best high heralds, he gets an autowin, just because he is a Skyfather, not when said high heralds repeatedly showed themselves to be beyond high heralds while holding back or weakened. That's a terrible line of thought to apply, especially here.
So maybe we agree here. Some of the people on the list aren't high heralds then, rather Trans or low Skyfathers, and Odin loses. 👆
And yes, Skyfathers are overrated here, because they get the win based on their status and not because of their feats. Standard procedure.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Calm down jake.

uhuh

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I'm perfectly calm. I just (strongly) disagree with the line of logic Batman-Prime's using in support for the team as it completely contradicts what we see in comics the vast majority of the time.

😛

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
uhuh

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
Keep it shorter, it's almost to long.

I'm saying that going by the feats of the Heralds listed and the feats of Odin, I don't see him oneshooting them.

By KMC they are high Heralds. Their feats put them, well, above imho. It's jobbing if they took worse from greater beings then Odin and were oneshooted by him, simple, really. And if it's now a vast majority we are making progress, at least. As for Krona, well he took down Galactus quite easy, where Odin, well headbutted himself for an ko. 😐 Hal having the willpower and a weapon based on willpower and the feats and intent to kill, it counts for nothing, yeah I forgot. They face him also one at a time, because they are polite...

Yeah, well, sorry, but I don't subscribe to the idea that if you just throw a skyfather (even Odin) against a number of some of the best high heralds, he gets an autowin, just because he is a Skyfather, not when said high heralds repeatedly showed themselves to be beyond high heralds while holding back or weakened. That's a terrible line of thought to apply, especially here.
So maybe we agree here. Some of the people on the list aren't high heralds then, rather Trans or low Skyfathers, and Odin loses. 👆
And yes, Skyfathers are overrated here, because they get the win because of their status and not because of their feats. Standard procedure.

That's what she said. *zing*

Yeah, but going by the feats of Odin (the ones shown in comics), he actually...y'know...one-shots heralds. And he does it without exerting much effort or while weakened or some other circumstance that prevents him from going all out, in which case, he'd outright obliterate herald level beings. 😐

Or they could be high end feats. Thor was once able to endure a barrage of blasts from multiple Celestials. Do I think that's the norm for Thor? Hell no, that's insane and it was clearly designed to be an epic heroic moment. That's what I'm getting at here. You can't pick out a handful to a dozen of good feats compare them to the overwhelming majority of feats under a character's history and just decide that everything else besides those high end feats was "jobbing" or "PIS". That doesn't even make a lick of sense. It's just as bad as trying to lowball a character by citing gas stations exploding or being mugged by Mexicans or falling down stairs or being shot and KOd with a sniper round; its just as inaccurate a portrayal of a character's overall formidability and capabilities albeit on the other far side of the spectrum.

Krona beating down Galactus? JLA/Avengers Krona =/= Krona from War of the Green Lanterns. That's common sense. And no, you can't arbitrarily decide that Hal can kill whomever just because of his willpower, which by its very nature, fluctuates depending on the situation at hand. No one's trying to lowball Hal here, so don't act like it.

Odin doesn't get an autowin because he's a skyfather. He wins because he's more powerful than anyone here and quite a few people here are virtually useless here against him. And that's based on feats and portrayals.

What gets me here is this.

Some of the people on the list aren't high heralds then, rather Trans or low Skyfathers, and Odin loses. 👆
And yes, Skyfathers are overrated here, because they get the win because of their status and not because of their feats. Standard procedure.

Who here is Trans or Low Skyfather for one? And for another, where in the world do you get that Odin gets the win here because of his status and not his feats? Because I, alongside several others, have outright stated and cited his actual feats done on panel? And how is this line of thought "standard procedure"? Do you think there's some kind of pro-skyfather/anti-herald movement on KMC?

Originally posted by abhilegend
What we get in comics that superman beats the crap out of any being, skyfathers be damned with his fists.

😛

Except when he doesn't.

😉

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
Keep it shorter, it's almost to long.

I'm saying that going by the feats of the Heralds listed and the feats of Odin, I don't see him oneshooting them.

By KMC they are high Heralds. Their feats put them, well, above imho. It's jobbing if they took worse from greater beings then Odin and were oneshooted by him, simple, really. And if it's now a vast majority we are making progress, at least. As for Krona, well he took down Galactus quite easy, where Odin, well headbutted himself for an ko.

Sorry BP.I may not be the Mod but I have to remind you this.

Originally posted by Digi
No Non-canon Sources

Non-canon sources are invalid for evidence. With rare exceptions, comics not in continuity such as Elseworlds, What Ifs, or alternate universes are not used for evidence in debates of a particular mainstream character.

A canon source is one that is regarded as being 'in continuity'. In the example of Star Trek; instances from the series and movies can be used, but books are definitely out. Comic book crossovers are usually unusable as they ignore common sense most of the time (DC vs. Marvel is certainly unusable in some cases in our debates!).

This includes JLA/Avengers. Canon or not, people just aren't going to agree on it in most cases. Besides, there should be plenty of other comics with which to make your point.

Comics released strictly online or on web sites will not be considered proof in the Comic Book Versus Forum.

So using JLA/Avengers to prove your point is invalid.Besides, you can't really prove he took down 616 Galactus 😛

^I know it's just official for DC and Marvel but not here on KMC. And I don't fear the mods coming at me 😛.

Originally posted by abhilegend
What we get in comics that superman beats the crap out of any being, skyfathers be damned with his fists.

😛

Especially an old man like Odin.

Originally posted by abhilegend
ahah

You should support ME against this Marvel-Asgardian bootlicker...

sneer