Originally posted by Prep-Man
Would you rank Doom below or above Etrigan in his early years as a mage.
Tbh, I can't comment on Etrigan's skill as a mage one way or the other. Most of the comics I've read involve him just beating the shit out of people and breathing fire while rhyming, nothing I'd call "mage" worthy like casting actual spells or anything.
Originally posted by JakeTheBankAlso the same arc where Doom's magic is said to be more powerful than Dr Strange's, which you apparently refuse to acknowledge as being true. Are you doing a bit of selective "I'll take what is convenient and makes me sound less of a fool" hypocritical thinking, Jake?
Same arc in which Magneto conceded that Doom was more powerful than he was.
You either go full-in and accept both statements and the consequenes, or take that as what they are, statements - which weren't proven right, at least in one case, Magneto's, when Doom could not beat him in one on one combat later on.
Originally posted by Prep-ManSince Jake didn't answer this question, yes, Doom got one-sided prep. He gased him, and the entire planet, beforehand. They later fight in that same arc, and it's a stalemate.
I should have clarified. Did Doom get one-sided prep? And what is Doom's record against Magneto in a STRAIGHT up fight? No prep or anything.
Originally posted by Philosophía
Also the same arc where Doom's magic is said to be more powerful than Dr Strange's, which you apparently refuse to acknowledge as being true. Are you doing a bit of selective "I'll take what is convenient and makes me sound less of a fool" hypocritical thinking, Jake?You either go full-in and accept both statements and the consequenes, or take that as what they are, statements - which weren't proven right, at least in one case, Magneto's, when Doom could not beat him in one on one combat later on.
I'm not being hypocritical at all.
Doom's magic was said to be more powerful than Wanda and Strange's. Magneto claimed Doom was more powerful than him. When they fought, the result was an inconclusive stalemate cut short due to Iron Lad separating them. The only time Magneto really even held the edge over Doom, was when Wonder Man and Iron Man joined with him to attack Doom in concert.
Originally posted by JakeTheBankYes, but that's not what I'm asking. You just posted a scan, from the same comic, where Doom is said to be more powerful than both pre-depowerment Dr. Strange and Wanda, which you flat-out said you don't believe it to be true. At the same time, you take the Magneto statement as valid.
I'm not being hypocritical at all.Doom's magic was said to be more powerful than Wanda and Strange's. Magneto claimed Doom was more powerful than him. When they fought, the result was an inconclusive stalemate cut short due to Iron Lad separating them. The only time Magneto really even held the edge over Doom, was when Wonder Man and Iron Man joined with him to attack Doom in concert.
That's cherry picking whatever statement is convenient. You either accept or take both with a grain of salt - even moreso when, as even you atest, Doom and Magneto stalemated later on, in that same arc.
Originally posted by Philosophía
Yes, but that's not what I'm asking. You just posted a scan, from the same comic, where Doom is said to be more powerful than both pre-depowerment Dr. Strange and Wanda, which you flat-out said you don't believe it to be true. At the same time, you take the Magneto statement as valid.That's cherry picking whatever statement is convenient. You either accept or take both with a grain of salt - even moreso when, as even you atest, Doom and Magneto stalemated later on, in that same arc.
You mean this?
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
No, because the previous page was Wiccan recalling said events, mentioning and asking how she went from magical abilities to reality warping powers on a godlike scale, prompting Wanda and Doom to explain what exactly happened to trigger her power-up.I don't think Doom was or is as powerful as Classic Strange, but Strange at that time wasn't at his Classic levels either.
Not sure what's cherry picking about that. I don't see Strange circa pre-Disassembled being as formidable or powerful as his Classic era in my opinion.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Not sure what's cherry picking about that. I don't see Strange circa pre-Disassembled being as formidable or powerful as his Classic era in my opinion.
Yes, you say that you don't believe that Doom is more powerful than Dr Strange, eventough there's a statement in that same arc saying just that. And make no mistake, that was classic Dr. Strange. At the same time, you take the statement about Doom being more powerful than Magneto as granted, eventough the actual arc shows them as fighting on even ground. You either take both, and accept that you're saying Doom is more powerful than classic Dr Strange, or none, and go by the actual feats and confrontations.
As for formidability, in the Dissassembled arc, Dr Strange beat HoM Wanda in one on one combat. That trumps most, if not all of his combat feats in the classic era.
Originally posted by Philosophía
Yes, you say that you don't believe that Doom is more powerful than classic Dr Strange, eventough there's a statement in that same arc saying just that. And make no mistake, that was classic Dr. Strange. At the same time, you take the statement about Doom being more powerful than Magneto as granted, eventough the actual arc shows them as fighting on even ground.
If you think Strange was at the height of his powers in his "classic" days pre-Disassembled, that's your prerogative. I don't and we're not going to agree on it, probably.
I take that as granted given Doom's feats as compared to Magneto's to begin with and not just that statement and in the same arc when they do fight, it's a stalemate until Iron Lad's intervention. I see your point, ultimately, though I don't agree with it.
Originally posted by Konton
She's hexed bullets after they were fired, conjured forcefields in melee with the amped Mary Marvel, and she's straight duplicated the physicality and skill of martial artists in combat. I don't think she's really in that much trouble.
It's not that she would be in trouble or get stomped right away, it's Doom's ability to last and defend himself that matters here. Because the longer the fight goes on, the more time Doom has to think and come up with a way to beat her. He doesn't have prep, but if the fight lasts long enough he will have had more than enough time to calculate the situation, and when he does he'll win.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Just so people know, as I think it was brought up a page or two ago, this is a random encounter with common knowledge of each character, but Doom isn't just limited to magic. He has his tech and sorcery on hand as usual.
Right, and so the only chance Zatanna has imo is to destroy Doom immediately before he has time to think the situation through. But she wouldn't be able to do that, so Doom wins.