Originally posted by NemeBro
I never got around to addressing this (Partly because admittedly I am only here to make Quan look bad, to hell with the actual fight), but this is mostly true.However, it possibly isn't true to the extent you may believe it to be.
First of all, and this is important, do you know how large the planet Hulk and Betty destroyed was? General ballpark estimate, if possible.
And honestly, the moon being destroyed isn't particularly surprising. Any force which can destroy a planet is almost certainly capable of doing the same to the moon above it.
The size of the planet wasnt really mentioned but id say its fairly safe to say that it is huge seeing as it represented the Dark Dimension. Beyond that of course not much can be said but id say thats the same as us not knowing how large some of the planets prime moved were.
And for the moon being destroyed. The amount of energy that destroys a planet is of course capable of destroying its moon as well if applied to it. However there is still quite some distance between them and thus due to energy dissipation and the inverse square law it would require more than the minimum amount of energy involved to wreck a planet alone than to wreck it together with its moon.
Still whats most impressive about that feat are the characters destroyed actually.
Originally posted by NemeBroYes, and thus it was a much less powerful explosion than the one later on in the book. When someone says that really hurt I take them for their word. Do you think the blast was less powerful than Superboy's hv blast which scarred him for life. I don't but you are free to think anything crazy.
It didn't set off a chain reaction because all of his power wasn't released at one time by the rupturing of his suit. He could control it.Also, you're ignoring that despite Prime's claims that it hurt, physically he only had a mild burn.
You aren't comparing the speed aspect nor are you comparing it to the Hulk's feat of indirectly destroying the planet. At it's core destroying anything is more impressive than moving anything. But we are comparing feat to feat and I am much more impressed with the Hulk's feat than Prime's feat. Speed. In both instances.Quan, let me explain this to you:
I came here solely to inform you that destroying a planet in of itself isn't as impressive as moving one out of orbit. I have sufficiently proved that. I never actually claimed that Prime's physical feats are more impressive (Though a few probably are). You went on irrelevant tangents (Irrelevant to my stance) because you were fundamentally incapable of arguing against me despite you disagreeing with me. [/B]
You're a huge Superboy Prime fan. You called bias on me while I like both characters. Neither are in my top three.
If you're going to claim bias on me, at least have the decency to try to refute my point while doing it. Like I do when I call you biased. [/B]
More than Superboy is required to best him but Prime doesn't stomp through him. He doesn't easily best him. Look at how Thanos treats the Surfer and look at how Prime teats Superboy. One is a pest while one really is in the other's head.That's not really how consistency works.
Most of the time it takes more than what Superboy is generally portrayed as to be a threat to Prime. [/B]
Prime is superior but he doesn't just look at Superboy as trash or a minor threat he's really bothered by him. Superboy always does well against him and he's far below Superman's level. That's what's so unforgivable.
... Not that Superboy is much of a threat to Prime, even though Connor does unusually well against Prime, Prime is always portrayed as superior, by a good deal. Oh and when they fought in Infinite Crisis, he fought both Superboy and Wonder Girl. And crushed them. It was only after hurting Cassie that Superboy managed to give Prime any sort of real fight, which didn't last long. Superboy then proceeded to die. [/B]
Yes, I do believe he is more powerful than elite top tiers. But I've seen many elite top tiers do the same thing such as Black Adam, Superman, Hulk, etc. At their highest moments they take on powerful teams.
And in SCW while "running" from the heroes he was dominating them left and right, and only running because he was depowered and was heading towards the sunlight. [/B]
Funnily enough I do. If you won't acknowledge that speed is a factor here for Prime then you live in your own world of fantastical magic alongside the unicorns and ponies you seem to champion.
You don't seem to get how debating works.You need to effectively explain why the difference isn't arbitrary, but signifigant.
You have yet to do so.
No seriously, your stance, its basis, tell me. [/B]
ZHulk has dynamic strength. Prime's powerup is only temporary. Prime doesn't use his speed in combat. If you aren't aware of the Hulk's best showings why do I have to educate you. I used to to complain about this in the game versus forum when I argued with scenario.
The only iffy factor is strength, and the only definite superiority he has is healing factor.Prime is portrayed as much, much faster, he is more durable unless WBH got some durability showing I don't know of (Name it if so), he has a more versatile powerset, etc. [/B]
If we don't see it on panel then it's just a high ranking person's opinion. I agree Prime has enough power to destroy a planet. He's well above Gladiator in terms of power. But if we are objectively looking at their feats then be objective. Prime is more powerful than elite top tiers save a few.
Lol. Such ironic statements in two sentences. Never change quan.Well let's see. We have Didio claiming that Prime can crush a planet, we have Prime easily moving planets like they were ping pong balls, we have Prime and several characters validating a claim made about him destroying Oa, and we have Guy confirming that Prime did this... I think I'm going to assume Prime can destroy a planet, if that's okay with you. [/B]
Honestly, I don't even like arguing collateral damage as it doesn't prove anything. I don't argue based off of feats alone. It's sickening.
Agreed.
And no, Prime isn't the greatest threat the DC universe will ever know, that part is hyperbole.[/B]
Sigh. I agree he could probably do so under his normal power level but he hasn't. So I can't say he can easily destroy one in the same vein as the Hulk with an indirect punch.
Read above please. Denying Prime's planet busting credentials is just sad at this point. [/B]
I post a lot. I don't just make a few posts a day like you. I have things to do and people to pwn. If a sentence comes out a mess it happens. Deal with it.
Okay quan, seriously: Learn to type better English. I am not saying this to be a dick, I am so serious, this trainwreck of a point is barely being adequately conveyed by you.But no: Prove he was able to lower his durability. [/B]
His powers increase his durability. So it only makes sense if he's holding back they decrease his durability.
Hulk's powers make it so. This isn't some human kid whose durability changes. That's the difference. Real world example fails.
If a father teaching his son to box holds back during sparring to keep from hurting his kid, is the kid suddenly able to knock him out because the father is "holding back"? No. Hulk, after seeing what a single footstep of his could do, was then completely still because he didn't want to destroy the world.
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I am under the impression writers went with the magical angle so Prime is highly resistant. Certain characters no sell attacks but the angle of the scene was due to show magic really isn't a weakness like it is against Superman.
Are you under the impression that Black Adam's fists being wreathed in magical lightning suddenly nulls the fact that knuckles harder than carbon nanotubes were being layed into his face as superluminal speeds? If you are, you would be mistaken.Only Mordru just blasted Prime. That's it. Magic was the only factor. Black Adam's strength was a factor when he punched Prime. [/B]
They were going to beat him. Heroes always do so against an out of control threat. He didn't best them just like Black Adam didn't best the heroes all attacking him. Holding your own is impressive but it's standard going all out I can take on scores of heroes standard stuff.
They were staring helplessly up at him, knowing they stood no chance against him. You're the "portrayal" guy, who looks at that as the be-all end-all. The heroes were desperate to stop Prime from retaining his full power... Because he was so powerful they couldn't handle him otherwise, and only barely handled him then. And then he easily threw them all off of him and bruised and battered them in the process. [/B]
You say you want to debate respectfully then throw insults my way. Like most comic book characters it just varies. In one instance Wolverine cuts Thanos while in another Odin blasts him to little or no effect. In one instance Prime shrugs off a Monarch blast while in another he gets ripped into by Krypto.
No, but I can demonstrate the relative lack of validity in a forum debate because they are inconsistent with most of his rather good showings.Or is that concept too advanced for you quan?
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He's never defeated Superman. He's hurt him but never a win. I think he would win but it would be hard fought not a walk in the park type thing.
Superman, multiple times. [/B]
Prime did catch him unaware. We don't know the context of what he did since the next time we see him he's depowered and his will is sapped by Annataz's powers next time we see him. The imp wasn't aware so what's impressive. No, it doesn't. Don't be silly.
It didn't really happen off-panel, Prime just flew in the fifth dimension and took Mxy before he or his girlfriend knew what happened.Aka, he speedblitzed a 5D Imp so fast another 5D Imp had no idea what happened. 🙂
GA Superman Prime's speed defies multiversal cosmic awareness. 💃 [/B]
Kal-L was portrayed as an equal to Ne Superman. One on one they were equal. Not against Doomsday in the limited panels we see he does seem like he does better than Ne. They both defeated Doomsday like an afterthought.
I should mention that Kal-L was portrayed as superior to New Earth Superman. Held the advantage during their entire fight, broke the hold of Wonder Woman's lasso, stopped Doomsday's fist with a single hand while Superman was knocked down, etc. Prime took down him, Cassie, and Alexander Luthor Jr. with a single blast of HV.Wow, look at how well Superman is doing!
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I never implied Superman can beat Prime I simply said Prime isn't that far above him in terms of formidability.
Yes, he does well but he doesn't really beat them. He is portrayed as superior and I do feel he is. But then again when Superman is at his best he takes on teams as well. This is nothing new. I agree Superman can't beat him on his own. But in a fight to the finish he'd put up a better fight than Sodam Yat. That wasn't an effortless beatdown either.
Manhandling Superman and Powergirl at the same time.Yes, clearly he has never bested Superman.
Well, would you look at all of those Kryptonian-tier beings being tossed away! Including Superman himself, mind you.
By his own admission, Superman can't fight Prime without help (A lot of help, mind you, and thanks Galan).
The Flashes had to BFR him into the Speed Force, and one of them kindasorta died to do it. He has also beaten up multiple Flashes like, what, twice? I don't deny that Prime fears the Flashes, because he fears being trapped in the Speedforce again. Yat was also above herald level beings in the story per portrayal, and... Not really, Prime didn't have much trouble with Yat at all. [/B]
Yat wasn't above heralds. He had potential but failed to use it. Prime does fear flashes because he was beaten by them. Yes, it took more than one but due to this event he fears even one of them. He does his best to flee from them when he can.
Originally posted by NemeBroYes, just as others have dominated multiple heralds at once. I am saying he's slightly superior to them. That means he's on another level than they are.
Prime has dominated multiple heralds at once. Yet he is only slightly superior to them? Lol.
Says the guy who just took probably over an hour in replying to me. Yeah, ok buddy I believe you.
I wasn't actually trying to do that mind you, though Najda (Sorry if I mispelled your username, I can't recall the correct spelling), when he gets back to me, might be able to help me do so, and frankly that should prove more fruitful than arguing it with you.
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It explains the situation. He's also not an idiot which gives more credence to his statements than a guy who says, I'll kill you to death.
It doesn't confuse me at all.Ray is a fallible character making a casual, not scientific, observation. It doesn't say "Hi I am the writer and I would like to inform you that this blast is exactly as powerful as a nuclear explosion." Ray calling it a nuke has about as much relevance as someone referring to Bruce Lee's punches as "lightning fast", they don't literally mean he is as fast as lightning.
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That's a different example than the one being argued here.
My point is if his energy can destroy a universe then it can destroy a planet. He controlled it to the point it didn't destroy even a continent thus a far less potent blast.
And... When Monarch's power output causes a chain reaction, a universe is destroyed, not a planet, so your final point is frankly bollocks.
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Any villain who threatens lives with that kind of power will be taken seriously. Multiple heroes also took Black Adam's actions seriously.
Wanna know who isn't an idiot?Martian Manhunter, Superman, Kal-L, etc. All took Prime's threat seriously.
Also, of course Prime could do so, he has done better. 😉 [/B]
The onus is on you. If we argued your way then everyone would be out there arguing for amps by saying prove he needed the amp for said feat.
Prove he needed to be amped. 🙂
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That's still a speed/strength feat. If I am running at speeds of three hundred miles by running into it.
No but he had to slam his fists down at high speeds.Tell me, can you cause more damage to, say, a board of wood by punching it, or running into it? 😉
They accomplished the same thing. Only one punched the planet three times while very angry, the other flew through it casually in a single action. Three actions vs. one. Casual versus bloodlusted. Checkmate. [/B]
I'm open to suggestions. I would also be open to the idea of a video game battlezone since you aren't as familiar with comics as I am.
What would be the battlezone's topic?Keep in mind quan that I will readily admit that you have far, far more comic book knowledge than I do. I just happen to be more scientifically and literarily minded/knowledged, as well as more logical and a better debater. Which means that I, unlike you, can actually argue my stance of planet moving > planet busting efficiently. 😉
Also, nice of you to concede the main topic. That moving a planet is superior to destroying one. Because you really have. You have not even the pretense of an argument any more. Frankly, I don't give a shit if WBH beats Prime or not, because at the end of the day, I can look at this thread, and say, to you: I'm better than you. And I proved it. 🙂 [/B]
Destroying something is harder than moving something. The main topic was always Hulk's feat versus Prime's. You tried spinning it into a real world science only debate not even addressing the feats themselves.
Originally posted by Hulkbuster1
yes but prime is stated as being rival to S.A.
500 supermen=golden prime200 supermen=superboyprime
1000 supermens=silver age
as for superman beyond it wasn't stated but I guess it's beyond living tribunal imho.hulks doom he lost to iron man and btw that was cannon smh
Does Prime really rival SA Superman at full power?
Originally posted by quanchi112
Speed is something not in the Hulk's arsenal. Speed takes away from the strength feat. You can think it doesn't take away as much as I do but I am used to you hyping the kryptonians by now.
Thanks for letting me know speed is not on Hulk's arsenal, really? I did not know surprise 😂
Originally posted by quanchi112
Yes, but it isn't always rammed home by every writer. If you're going at three hundred miles per hour more force is going to hit the cake when what you're capabale of just standing there. That's just 300 miles per hour.
Thanks you Einstein!!!
Originally posted by quanchi112
Nudging and using insane speeds don't go hand in hand. Hulk standing there and punching someone uses far less strength than if he was traveling at 10,000 miles per hour let's say and if he strikes the same object.
Wait a minute, "Insane" speeds? HIGH speed, please
And I did not saw HULK "standing" there, I saw Hulk jumping? And Betty Jumping too?
Moving a planet at high speed requires more energy than just moving a planet at regular speed.
F = ma lets us work out the forces at work on objects
by multiplying the mass of the object by the acceleration of the object.
Example:
The force at work on a Formula 1 car as it starts a race!
If the F1 car has a Mass of 600kg and an Acceleration of 20m/s/s then we can work out the Force pushing the car by multiplying the Mass by the Acceleration like this 600 x 20 = 12000N
So in this case a planet nudged outside of it's orbital trench PLANET MASS X HIGH SPEED = WTF newtons.
You get it now? this is why He did it gently otherwise the cake will be crap flying outside of it's orbital trench.
To further prove this point
Blowing up a planet
"Just because you blasted the Earth apart doesn't mean you blasted it apart for good. If you don't blast it hard enough, the pieces will fall back together again under mutual gravitational attraction, and Earth, like the liquid metal Terminator, will reform from its shattered shards. You have to blow the Earth up hard enough to overcome that attraction"
Feasibility rating: 4/10. Just about slightly possible.
Move a planet
"Sending a planet on a collision course is not as easy as one might think. Contrary to popular opinion, planet's orbit are not "unstable" and planets will not begin to spiral outside of orbits if we give them the slightest of nudges (otherwise, you can bet it would have happened already on our planet with so many impacts). It's surprisingly easy to end up with a planet in a loopy elliptical orbit which merely roasts it for four months in every eight. Careful planning will be needed to avoid this."
Feasibility rating: 9/10. Impossible at our current technological level, but will be possible one day, I'm certain. In the meantime, may happen by freak accident if something comes out of nowhere and randomly knocks Earth in precisely the right direction.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Heralds usually are punching the planets themselves. This instance the planet was destroyed as a reaction tot he force used by his raw power. Terrax used his power cosmic to do so. He directly did so. Not the same as the Hulk did in HOTM.
Hulk destroying a planet indirectly is a lot different than flying through one. Sorry, it's a lot more impressive and you know it. It's also Pak, sport. Pak loves him some Hulk. He'd mock your downplaying.
Nope, is not more impressive, the amount of energy required to accomplish moving a planet is insane.
Come to think of it, Didn't Superman and Hal wrestled a planet from Starbreaker? 😄
Oh wait In know this is not Superman vs Hulk is Superman Prime OA amped vs WBH 😂
Will you ever respond my questions?
I'm still waiting 112
Originally posted by carver9So I see you are still terrified at the prospect of debating me Carter, as you were years ago.
Hulk wins and Quan is ripping through his opponents. I'm still not needed here I guess...Quan doesn't have a challenge.
At least quan isn't a coward.
Also: I don't have the time nor effort to spare to answer your current post quan, but I tried to get Peach to allow Battlezones in the past, and she did not do so. I guess I could try to make her change her mind, but I can't promise she will.
Originally posted by biensalsaDon't mention it, cur.
Thanks for letting me know speed is not on Hulk's arsenal, really? I did not know surprise 😂Thanks you Einstein!!!
Yes, he jumped but I for one don't think his jump speed even approaches Prime or Superman's travel speed. Do you ?Wait a minute, "Insane" speeds? HIGH speed, please
And I did not saw HULK "standing" there, I saw Hulk jumping? And Betty Jumping too?
Moving a planet at high speed requires more energy than just moving a planet at regular speed. [/B]
Real world numbers don't apply to fiction. They just don't. Too many unknown variables here we can't factor in. Come on cletus.
F = ma lets us work out the forces at work on objects
by multiplying the mass of the object by the acceleration of the object.Example:
The force at work on a Formula 1 car as it starts a race!
If the F1 car has a Mass of 600kg and an Acceleration of 20m/s/s then we can work out the Force pushing the car by multiplying the Mass by the Acceleration like this 600 x 20 = 12000NSo in this case a planet nudged outside of it's orbital trench PLANET MASS X HIGH SPEED = WTF newtons.
You get it now? this is why He did it gently otherwise the cake will be crap flying outside of it's orbital trench.
To further prove this point
Blowing up a planet
"Just because you blasted the Earth apart doesn't mean you blasted it apart for good. If you don't blast it hard enough, the pieces will fall back together again under mutual gravitational attraction, and Earth, like the liquid metal Terminator, will reform from its shattered shards. You have to blow the Earth up hard enough to overcome that attraction"
Feasibility rating: 4/10. Just about slightly possible.
Move a planet
"Sending a planet on a collision course is not as easy as one might think. Contrary to popular opinion, planet's orbit are not "unstable" and planets will not begin to spiral outside of orbits if we give them the slightest of nudges (otherwise, you can bet it would have happened already on our planet with so many impacts). It's surprisingly easy to end up with a planet in a loopy elliptical orbit which merely roasts it for four months in every eight. Careful planning will be needed to avoid this."
Feasibility rating: 9/10. Impossible at our current technological level, but will be possible one day, I'm certain. In the meantime, may happen by freak accident if something comes out of nowhere and randomly knocks Earth in precisely the right direction.
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I can't recall but perhaps. Prime's 'amp won't last forever but Hulk's rage will. Remember that, bucko.
Nope, is not more impressive, the amount of energy required to accomplish moving a planet is insane.Come to think of it, Didn't Superman and Hal wrestled a planet from Starbreaker? 😄
Oh wait In know this is not Superman vs Hulk is Superman Prime OA amped vs WBH 😂
Will you ever respond my questions?
I'm still waiting 112 [/B]
