Hulk vs Superman: fighting for love

Started by OneDumbG035 pages

Originally posted by CosmicComet
I'm still confused at what you think you're even attempting to do here.

I called ODG's post bitter, because he provided a sarcastic post that didn't address anything that I had said, but simply commented on some feeling of disparity he feels he has seen with the scrutiny of Superman's feats being waved off.

But unfortunately for him, he didn't trap me in some back-peddling contradiction for the scenario and I fairly acknowledged his critique and agreed with it.

So, how am I being bitter exactly? I didn't deny Hulk any feats, and I acknowledged criticism towards certain Superman feats as well using the same sort of scrutinizing that I am applying for the Hulk.

You're not rewriting history any better than you're trying to convince people you're not a hypocrite here.

That the comics we're discussing clearly illustrate you're incorrect makes trying to ferret out your double standards superfluous:

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I'm frustrated that you think Superman's flight somehow detracts from Superman's strength. It's a retarded theory. It doesn't even matter unless we're speaking of some KMC contest where Superman must lift things and he cannot fly. Of course, considering your half-stepping hypocrisy, doubt you'd be the first to jump in that thread and point out this moron theory.

Nowhere near the damage being done like in World War Hulk except the same lil old couple in Greenwich, Connecticut was commenting on the same tremors again (only this time Hulk was in Washington D.C. and not in Manhattan). You're trying to convince me that the damage WBH did in World War Hulk was not similar to the damage done in World War Hulks? They got John Romita Jr to come back for a single page to illustrate the similarity:

World War Hulk #5:

Incredible Hulks #610:

Except where pure strength did what so-called part-strength and part-energy projection did. Do yourself a favor. Give it up.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
I'm still confused at what you think you're even attempting to do here.
That you calling someone bitter in a Hulk related thread is incredibly ironic.

Superman puts up a better fight than almost any being could and what some would assume is realistic but this battle only ends with Hulk raping his corpse.

Hulk beats the life from him. Earth 1 Superman is less than New Earth Superman who he'd also rape. Lois dies again.

Hulk leaves with a broken heart and broken face.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I'm frustrated that you think Superman's flight somehow detracts from Superman's strength. It's a retarded theory. It doesn't even matter unless we're speaking of some KMC contest where Superman must lift things and he cannot fly. Of course, considering your half-stepping hypocrisy, doubt you'd be the first to jump in that thread and point out this moron theory.

Of course you are frustrated. You aren't fooling anyone when the post originally came across as a mewling, whiny attempt at deflecting the issue to possible hypocrisy with how some of Superman's feats are looked at in comparison to the Hulk;

"Yeah, that's what people said about nearly all of Superman's impressive strength feats which almost invariably involve flight save for one or two feats. Forgive my disbelief.

Let's change "Hulk strongest there is!!!" to "Hulk most energy projectiony there is!!!" 🙄 "

WAHHH YOU ARE SO UNFAIR TO HULKY WAHH. Sorry. That's all I see.

So don't try to take some half-baked disaffected, neutral, high ground stance here by saying you are now frustrated because I'm 'low balling' Superman now or something. That's not what you care about. And it's a joke to even attempt to portray yourself as such.

You were hoping to somehow use the logic against me, in order to call me a hypocrite, but I've provided equal critiques on how both ends; both Superman and Hulk, have feats that questionably cannot be called pure strength alone, and now you're STILL trying to call me a hypocrite. I guess you were just really set on using the word hypocrite today. 😂

It's a 'moron' theory now eh? Certainly didn't seem that was the stance you were taking in the quote I put up there, it certainly smacked of some sort of appeal to popularity fallacy attempt at questioning unfairness in appraisal of feats between two characters. I guess they were all morons as well then, eh? If they were, what was the point of even bringing it up? Because in the end, I could concede that both showings could be 'pure strength', but that unfortunately would change nothing on my end would it? As I would still have reasons to compare Superman's strength favorably to Hulk. So I guess what I'm trying to understand is; 'what the phuck is your point this whole time?' You're just flip flopping hard.

Anyway, we're going off on a tangent now, but you wouldn't be able to even explain why its a 'moron' theory anyway. All you ever seem to do these days is complain that things are 'stupid' or 'dumb' and try to portray yourself as this disillusioned intellectual that never has to explain himself on that front, on top of, you know, doing the same ol' bitter WAHHH HULK IS TREATED UNFAIRLY routine like you did in that Doomsday thread a week or two back. You're not convincing anyone of this shit. Explain, One *Dumb* Go, how its 'moron' theory when everything I said is true?; Flight is an extra-capability that doesn't come from muscle power.

(Again, not that it matters, since like said already, Superman does crazy shit even outside of flight related pulling feats)


Nowhere near the damage being done like in World War Hulk except the same lil old couple in Greenwich, Connecticut was commenting on the same tremors again (only this time Hulk was in Washington D.C. and not in Manhattan). You're trying to convince me that the damage WBH did in World War Hulk was not similar to the damage done in World War Hulks? They got John Romita Jr to come back for a single page to illustrate the similarity:

World War Hulk #5:

Incredible Hulks #610:
Except where pure strength did what so-called part-strength and part-energy projection did. Do yourself a favor. Give it up. [/B]

I'm not trying to convince you of anything but that;

The gamma energy he leaks out is confirmed on panel to do damage to the surroundings by itself, even when Hulk is not moving.

Therefore, the feats CANNOT, by logic, be purely strength based. Not when he releases energy when he's ramping up his strength levels and that energy is confirmed to cause damage itself.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
Of course you are frustrated. You aren't fooling anyone when the post originally came across as a mewling, whiny attempt at deflecting the issue to possible hypocrisy with how some of Superman's feats are looked at in comparison to the Hulk;
And how did you react to that insinuation of hypocrisy? By offering a half-hearted admission couched in... "but it's different for Superman because of other things." Don't try to backstep. Proceed with your decension into utter absurdity:
Originally posted by CosmicComet
"Yeah, that's what people said about nearly all of Superman's impressive strength feats which almost invariably involve flight save for one or two feats. Forgive my disbelief.

Let's change "Hulk strongest there is!!!" to "Hulk most energy projectiony there is!!!" 🙄 "

WAHHH YOU ARE SO UNFAIR TO HULKY WAHH. Sorry. That's all I see.

You haven't offered anything but a completely obvious projection of your own bitterness onto me.
Originally posted by CosmicComet
So don't try to take some half-baked disaffected, neutral, high ground stance here by saying you are now frustrated because I'm 'low balling' Superman now or something. That's not what you care about. And it's a joke to even attempt to portray yourself as such.
My stance isn't neutral. It's a stance that pokes at your own farcical attempt at fair handedness. Amply demonstrated by your constant attacks on Hulk's feats and defenses of Superman's.
Originally posted by CosmicComet
You wanted to somehow using the logic against me, in order to call me a hypocrite, but I've provided equal critiques on how both ends; both Superman and Hulk, have feats that questionably cannot be called pure strength alone, and now you're STILL trying to call me a hypocrite. I guess you were just really set on using the word hypocrite today. 😂
No, you haven't. You just acted like you believe in this flight-assisted strength theory while completely dismissing it by vague allusions to "other Superman feats." That you refuse to accept carver9's previous posting of a non-gamma energy projection footstep feat is delicious irony.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
It's a 'moron' theory now eh? Certainly didn't seem that was the stance you were taking in the quote I put up there, it certainly smacked of some sort of appeal to popularity fallacy attempt at questioning unfairness in appraisal of feats between two characters. I guess they were all morons as well then, eh? If they were, what was the point of even bringing it up? Because in the end, I could concede that both showings could be 'pure strength', but that unfortunately would change nothing on my end would it? As I would still have reasons to compare Superman's strength favorably to Hulk. So I guess what I'm trying to understand is; 'what the phuck is your point this whole time?' You're just flip flopping hard.
It is indeed a moron theory. The sarcasm was lost on you. Completely. That's your fault, not mine. I was of the impression that you were smart enough to dismiss such flight-assisted strength feat theories. I obviously was mistaken. Bringing that up did, though, completely uncover your strenuous wriggling attempts to reverse-justify looking past it for Superman though. You bringing up Superman's non-flight assisted strength feats but somehow completely ignoring Hulk's non-gamma projection assisted strength feats washes how exactly?
Originally posted by CosmicComet
Anyway, we're going off on a tangent now, but you wouldn't be able to even explain why its a 'moron' theory anyway. All you ever seem to do these days is complain that things are 'stupid' or 'dumb' and try to portray yourself as this disillusioned intellectual that never has to explain himself on that front, on top of, you know, doing the same ol' bitter WAHHH HULK IS TREATED UNFAIRLY routine like you did in that Doomsday thread a week or two back. You're not convincing anyone of this shit. Explain, One *Dumb* Go, how its 'moron' theory when everything I said is true?; Flight is an extra-capability that doesn't come from muscle power.

(Again, not that it matters, since like said already, Superman does crazy shit even outside of flight related pulling feats)

We're on the exact tangent I was steering you towards. That you walked blindly into it with personal diatribe and your bumbling contempt was something else I was counting on. You're predictable. Sorry.

And Hulk has crazy non-gamma energy projection assisted strength feats as well. So much for your evenhanded demeanor.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
I'm not trying to convince you of anything but that;
Don't worry. You didn't convince me of anything. kinda

I don't want to read the back and forth about who's bitter, so imma just post my two-cents:

Even if people think that some of the collateral damage from Hulk's smash is accomplished by waves of energy, that energy is only exerted when Hulk's muscling about and is for all purposes an extension of his strength. If Hulk's thunderclap is now making green waves of destruction, it's still for all mechanical purposes a thunderclap and making a distinction between pure strength and gamma-energy strength rings like a pretty hollow attempt to save Superman some sort of 'still just as strong technically!' title.

Which is goofy and a waste of time.

Anyways, I think Hulk wins this.

Originally posted by Existere
I don't want to read the back and forth about who's bitter, so imma just post my two-cents:

Even if people think that some of the collateral damage from Hulk's smash is accomplished by waves of energy, that energy is only exerted when Hulk's muscling about and is for all purposes an extension of his strength. If Hulk's thunderclap is now making green waves of destruction, it's still for all mechanical purposes a thunderclap and making a distinction between pure strength and gamma-energy strength rings like a pretty hollow attempt to save Superman some sort of 'still just as strong technically!' title.

Which is goofy and a waste of time.

Anyways, I think Hulk wins this.

👆

Personally, I think Lois is a much greater motivator to Clark than Betty is to Bruce, but I agree with your assessment as far as Hulk's strength/"energy projection" goes.

Well then someone needs to explain just what the hell the energy is doing Because it certainly isn't there for the cool effects. When I looked at those sequences in which the energy was involved it seemed to me to indicate "holy shyte, this guy is so pumped up with gamma energy that even the merest step causes mass destruction. It also seemed to me that the energy had some destructive affect in the process.

And then to add in another element, I've seen some people here argue in other threads that it does have destructive affects. In fact one guy even argued that he shot some energy up at Armwhatshisface's ship during their fight in Vegas.

Has any of this been touched on in the actual material?

Personally, I don't think his gamma projection detracts from his strength (seeing as gamma energy is literally the source of said strength) but is a mere side effect of it.

Originally posted by SuperiorTech
I know that most of this Hulk hate Carver's fault and the shit that comes out of his mouth but sometimes the lengths you guys go to low ball Hulks feats is pretty ridiculous.

Spot on. Its straight laughable though unsurprising at this point.

Originally posted by Robtard
Superman.

Speedblitz wins this. He can read the paper, have a snack and take a dump in the time it'd take the Hulk to register one second of time passing.

You don't know comics just like you don't know movies. At least you're consistently ignorant.

Originally posted by dmills
Well then someone needs to explain just what the hell the energy is doing Because it certainly isn't there for the cool effects. When I looked at those sequences in which the energy was involved it seemed to me to indicate "holy shyte, this guy is so pumped up with gamma energy that even the merest step causes mass destruction. It also seemed to me that the energy had some destructive affect in the process.

And then to add in another element, I've seen some people here argue in other threads that it does. In fact one guy even argued that he shot some energy up at Armwhatshisface's ship during their fight in Vegas.

Has any of this been touched on in the actual material?

The scenes require as much explanation as much as other similar scenes. OWAW Superman was exuding torrents of flaming solar energy when tearing through Braniac-13's drones and pushing Warworld. Few (if any) people attribute such feats to Superman's solar energy projection pretending like it had less to do with strength than solar energy.

Hulk does have gamma projection. He projects it at Arm'Chedon's ships and obliterates them. And if he were hovering over Manhattan or Washington D.C. and coastal destruction ensued after a wave of green energy vaporized the ground, it'd be a feat of gamma projection. But he didn't. He took a footstep (twice). And everybody exclaimed that if he took more footsteps, he'd destroy more of it.

Splitting hairs is unnecessary at this point. Is Hulk capable of this widespread destruction? Yes. Is it because he is "the strongest there is"? Yes. Should we be treating him differently in a vs. thread that doesn't even try to split such hairs and requires such distinctions? No. This thread doesn't involve a WBH who is "not allowed to augment his destructive capabilities with any sort of gamma projection whatsoever."

So what, exactly, is the point of bringing such theories up? Several people have pointed to it just now. And it's frankly unflattering.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Personally, I don't think his gamma projection detracts from his strength (seeing as gamma energy is literally the source of said strength) but is a mere side effect of it.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
The scenes require as much explanation as much as other similar scenes. OWAW Superman was exuding torrents of flaming solar energy when tearing through Braniac-13's drones and pushing Warworld. Few (if any) people attribute such feats to Superman's solar energy projection pretending like it had less to do with strength than solar energy.

Hulk does have gamma projection. He projects it at Arm'Chedon's ships and obliterates them. And if he were hovering over Manhattan or Washington D.C. and coastal destruction ensued after a wave of green energy vaporized the ground, it'd be a feat of gamma projection. But he didn't. He took a footstep (twice). And everybody exclaimed that if he took more footsteps, he'd destroy more of it.

Splitting hairs is unnecessary at this point. Is Hulk capable of this widespread destruction? Yes. Is it because he is "the strongest there is"? Yes. Should we be treating him differently in a vs. thread that doesn't even try to split such hairs and requires such distinctions? No. This thread doesn't involve a WBH who is "not allowed to augment his destructive capabilities with any sort of gamma projection whatsoever."

So what, exactly, is the point of bringing such theories up? Several people have pointed to it just now. And it's frankly unflattering.

The problem I see here with this issue is that it seems two separate concepts are being forcibly intertwined. Strength and power. Those are two totally different things, much like horsepower and torque or weight and mass. As an example, the Hulk thunderclapping fin fang foom through that magical barrier, that's a feat of power. Hulk holding the tetonic plates together to keep the planet from falling apart, that's strength. I think this is where most of the bickering about this is coming from tbh.

So while Superman could conceivably stalemate WBH (not saying he would) in say, a locking up hands and pushing like so many comics like to portray. The Hulk could just as easily punch Supes's head right off of his shoulders and neither incident would be contradictory. Either way, I see no reason to detract from Hulk's power in any case.

Originally posted by dmills
The problem I see here with this issue is that it seems two separate concepts are being forcibly intertwined. Strength and power. Those are two totally different things, much like horsepower and torque, weight and mass. As an example, the Hulk thunderclapping fin fang foom through that magical barrier, that's a feat of power. Hulk holding the tetonic plates together to keep the planet from falling apart, that's strength. I think this is where most of the bickering about this is coming from tbh.

So while Superman could conceivably stalemate WBH (not saying he would) in say, a locking up hands and pushing like so many comics like to portray. The Hulk could just as easily punch Supes's head right off of his shoulders and neither incident would be contradictory.

I can differentiate between power and strength, but I don't think his emission of gamma energy should be used as a means to lowball or discredit physical feats of his.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I can differentiate between power and strength, but I don't think his emission of gamma energy should be used as a means to lowball or discredit physical feats of his.

Nor do I. I can read it and for what it is and it doesn't subtract a thing. CC however is a "deep thinker" type that loves to analyze shit like this to the minutest detail.

At this point I realize that I've probably added nothing of consequence to the discussion 😂

Originally posted by dmills
The problem I see here with this issue is that it seems two separate concepts are being forcibly intertwined. Strength and power. Those are two totally different things, much like horsepower and torque or weight and mass. As an example, the Hulk thunderclapping fin fang foom through that magical barrier, that's a feat of power. Hulk holding the tetonic plates together to keep the planet from falling apart, that's strength. I think this is where most of the bickering about this is coming from tbh.

So while Superman could conceivably stalemate WBH (not saying he would) in say, a locking up hands and pushing like so many comics like to portray. The Hulk could just as easily punch Supes's head right off of his shoulders and neither incident would be contradictory. Either way, I see no reason to detract from Hulk's power in any case.

I don't see much here to disagree with. Other than the notion that Superman could stalemate WBH in a grappling contest.

WBH took a footstep, while holding back, and was causing damage to a continent's coastline. Superman never did that with a mere footstep, much less a stomp. WBH, letting loose, obliterated a planet while striking an equally powerful foe incidentally through collateral damage. Superman never did that. I don't see a need to equivocate beyond these simple facts other than painfully obvious pettiness from a select few.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I don't see much here to disagree with. Other than the notion that Superman could stalemate WBH in a grappling contest.

WBH took a footstep, while holding back, and was causing damage to a continent's coastline. Superman never did that with a mere footstep, much less a stomp. WBH, letting loose, obliterated a planet while striking an equally powerful foe incidentally through collateral damage. Superman never did that. I don't see a need to equivocate beyond these simple facts other than painfully obvious pettiness from a select few.

I was just using the grappling contest as an i.e. Of course I think wbh would fold him like a lawn chair if such a hypothetical contest happened lol.