Avengers Movie, Hulk Vs The Avengers

Originally posted by Robtard
Because the Hulk did utterly thrash Loki, it's right there in the film. Go yell at Whedon if you can't handle that.

Or the Hulk could just have easily of grabbed him anyways.

I don't disagree that he "trashed" Loki, just that he trashed Loki while Loki wasn't even trying to fight him. The point I'm trying to make, is that it's not fair to compare Thor's performance vs. Loki against Hulk's performance vs. Loki, simply coz Thor was up against a fully-fighting and prepared Loki....

Whereas Hulk trashed Loki while Loki was in mid-sentence... and he was unarmed. If memory serves me right, all the Thor vs. Loki fights had Loki throwing the first "punch" so to speak.

Denying those facts would prove nothing but utter fanboyism.

Originally posted by FrothByte
I don't disagree that he "trashed" Loki, just that he trashed Loki while Loki wasn't even trying to fight him. The point I'm trying to make, is that it's not fair to compare Thor's performance vs. Loki against Hulk's performance vs. Loki, simply coz Thor was up against a fully-fighting and prepared Loki....

Whereas Hulk trashed Loki while Loki was in mid-sentence... and he was unarmed.

Denying those facts would prove nothing but utter fanboyism.

I must have missed the part where the Hulk surprised/cheap-shotted Loki, it's not like the Hulk was standing in front of him for a good 4-5 seconds and Loki was in the middle of a war. Loki knew he absolutely had no chance physically against the Hulk, so he tried a mind-trick; it backfired. Downplaying the Hulk her is nothing except that.

LoL, talk about "fanboysim" where almost every excuse for Thor's slow-showings are "he just wasn't trying".

Originally posted by Newjak
Yeah I don't think Loki was really cheap shotted, taken by surprise possible but he knew what was going on.

But it still Hulk > Weaponless Loki, does equate to

Hulk > Thor since
Thor > Loki with Weapons.

Just want to point out some inconsistencies with your comparisons.

Hulk > weaponless Loki
Thor > Loki with weapons

where do you get the Hulk > Thor? You can only get that analogy if they were fighting the same version of loki, as all we have are fights between different "versions" of Loki then we can't really get an analogy based on loki.

Up until the time we see what Thor can do against an unarmed and unprepared Loki or if we get to see Hulk against an armed and fully prepped Loki, we can't come to a conclusion.

Originally posted by Robtard
I must have missed the part where the Hulk surprised/cheap-shotted Loki, it's not like the Hulk was standing in front of him for a good 4-5 seconds and Loki was in the middle of a war. Loki knew he absolutely had no chance physically against the Hulk, so he tried a mind-trick; it backfired.

LoL, talk about "fanboysim" where almost every excuse for Thor's slow-showings are "he just wasn't trying".

Personally, I'm not one of those who says Thor "wasn't trying".

As far as Loki talking to Hulk, it was really stupid of Loki to do that, and I believe the writers only made him do that to show what a badass Hulk is. But seriously, he could have just used his illusion trick.

Are you telling me you THINK Loki was already fighting in this scenario? That's just dumb and you know it. Just because Loki acted stupid in this scene doesn't mean that he was fighting against hulk by talking to him.

Besides, what mind trick are you talking about? Telling someone how "I'm a god" is now considered a mind trick?

Originally posted by Newjak
Yeah I don't think Loki was really cheap shotted, taken by surprise possible but he knew what was going on.

But it still Hulk > Weaponless Loki, does equate to

Hulk > Thor since
Thor > Loki with Weapons.

Some people consider cheap shotted and taken by surprise to be the same thing, when talking about attacks happening when the characters aren't already in the middle of a fight....so I can see why FrothByte used that term.

It's telling that certain people are trying to pass off that encounter as indicative of how an actual fight would do, when we know from the both movies that Loki likes using ranged attacks and illusions during his fights.

They do much the same thing when they ignore that Thor was shown to fight his brother/allies differently than he does enemies.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Just want to point out some inconsistencies with your comparisons.

Hulk > weaponless Loki
Thor > Loki with weapons

where do you get the Hulk > Thor? You can only get that analogy if they were fighting the same version of loki, as all we have are fights between different "versions" of Loki then we can't really get an analogy based on loki.

Up until the time we see what Thor can do against an unarmed and unprepared Loki or if we get to see Hulk against an armed and fully prepped Loki, we can't come to a conclusion.

I was pretty much saying what you were, one word can make a difference 😛

Originally posted by FrothByte
Personally, I'm not one of those who says Thor "wasn't trying".

As far as Loki talking to Hulk, it was really stupid of Loki to do that, and I believe the writers only made him do that to show what a badass Hulk is. But seriously, he could have just used his illusion trick.

Are you telling me you THINK Loki was already fighting in this scenario? That's just dumb and you know it. Just because Loki acted stupid in this scene doesn't mean that he was fighting against hulk by talking to him.

Besides, what mind trick are you talking about? Telling someone how "I'm a god" is now considered a mind trick?

I said he was using the only thing he had, a mind-trick(talking), as he knew in a physical fight, he'd get his ass beaten down. He tried to talk his way out of an asswhupping via intimidation; Hulk wasn't having any of it.

Downplaying is lame, just stop. Hulk beat the crap out of Loki. Them the facts.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Personally, I'm not one of those who says Thor "wasn't trying".

As far as Loki talking to Hulk, it was really stupid of Loki to do that, and I believe the writers only made him do that to show what a badass Hulk is. But seriously, he could have just used his illusion trick.

Are you telling me you THINK Loki was already fighting in this scenario? That's just dumb and you know it. Just because Loki acted stupid in this scene doesn't mean that he was fighting against hulk by talking to him.

Besides, what mind trick are you talking about? Telling someone how "I'm a god" is now considered a mind trick?

Nobody is saying that Thor wasn't trying to win, the fanboys are just strawmanning because they don't want to admit that Thor was shown holding back while fighting his brother.

Originally posted by Robtard
I said he was using the only thing he had, a mind-trick(talking), as he knew in a physical fight, he'd get his ass beaten down. He tried to talk his way out of an asswhupping via intimidation; Hulk wasn't having any of it.

Downplaying is lame, just stop. Hulk beat the crap out of Loki. Them the facts.

👆

Originally posted by Silent Master
Nobody is saying that Thor wasn't trying to win, the fanboys are just strawmanning because they don't want to admit that Thor was shown holding back while fighting his brother.

LoL, talk about strawmanning. Hypocrisy FTW.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Some people consider cheap shotted and taken by surprise to be the same thing, when talking about attacks happening when the characters aren't already in the middle of a fight....so I can see why FrothByte used that term.

It's telling that certain people are trying to pass off that encounter as indicative of how an actual fight would do, when we know from the both movies that Loki likes using ranged attacks and illusions during his fights.

They do much the same thing when they ignore that Thor was shown to fight his brother/allies differently than he does enemies.

I don't think this is too much less Loki could hav done to change the outcome. Of course if Thor was serious he would have done the same thing to Loki.

Originally posted by Robtard
LoL, talk about strawmanning. Hypocrisy FTW.

In the Thor film Loki sent the Destroyer to kill him, Blasted Thor out of the Palace, was threatening to destroy an entire planet, and even hit him the face with Odin's Spear yet Thor STILL wouldn't fight him.

It took Loki threatening Jane for Thor to finally fight his brother, and even during the middle of it when it looked like Loki was about to fall off the Bi-Frost Thor stopped to help him up.

Does that really sound like Thor was going all out on Loki. He was obviously holding back, even if he was putting effort into it there's no way he's giving it his all cause he doesn't want to hurt Loki.

Originally posted by Newjak
I do agree with Robtard there isn't much Loki could have done there, and that he might just been stalling or having a hissy fit moment.

I don't think this is too much less Loki could hav done to change the outcome. Of course if Thor was serious he would have done the same thing to Loki.

I agree that the outcome would have been the same, but trying to pass it off as how a real fight would have gone is rather dishonest.

Just off the top of my head, I can list 4 times he used illusions during a confrontation.

Originally posted by Silent Master
I agree that the outcome would have been the same, but trying to pass it off as how a real fight would have gone is rather dishonest.

Just off the top of my head, I can list 4 times he used illusions during a confrontation.

Originally posted by Newjak
Oh I agree with that, Loki with his staff/spear and his throwing knives would have given Hulk a lot better fight.

The only thing Loki had in his arsenal to combat the Hulk would be using an illusion and running away. Staff attacks and knives wouldn't have done much to the Hulk, considering the punishment he's seen taking.

Could argue that he could have tried to mind-control the Hulk via staff, but it stands to reason he couldn't, as it would have been a simpler thing to do while on the carrier.

Originally posted by Robtard
The only thing Loki had in his arsenal to combat the Hulk would be using an illusion and running away. Staff attacks and knives wouldn't have done much to the Hulk, considering the punishment he's seen taking.

Could argue that he could have tried to mind-control the Hulk via staff, but it stands to reason he couldn't, as it would have been a simpler thing to do while on the carrier.

Also those knives were Asgardian so I think they would have done some damage to Hulk. Maybe not a lot but some.

As for mind control he basically did do that to the Hulk on the carrier. If he can do it like that I would say the tip to the chest style would be far more effective in controlling him.

Originally posted by Newjak
I think you underestimate how power that weapon made Loki. I think he would have been able to knock Hulk around for a bit. Eventually he would get beat but not without getting some damage on the Hulk.

Also those knives were Asgardian so I think they would have done some damage to Hulk. Maybe not a lot but some.

As for mind control he basically did do that to the Hulk on the carrier. If he can do it like that I would say the tip to the chest style would be far more effective in controlling him.

Hulk stopped a massive warship with a punch and its mass+momentum only managed to push him back a few yards. I don't think Loki is "knocking around" the Hulk.

F-22 cannon fire did absolutely nothing against Hulk's skin. Not sure if Loki's little dagger would pose any significant threat.

Loki tired to, but it failed, as Banner kept control "sorry, you don't get to see my party trick". Possible, but we'll never know, as Loki didn't try it on Banner or the Hulk.

IIRC those daggers were taking out Ice giants with one hit.

Originally posted by Silent Master
IIRC those daggers were taking out Ice giants with one hit.

IIRC, Mjolnir was taking out Frost Giants with one hit, yet all it did was make the Hulk reel back a bit after being hit in the face.

I think we can all agree that Mjolnir > Loki's dagger

Originally posted by Robtard
Hulk stopped a massive warship with a punch and its mass+momentum only managed to push him back a few yards. I don't think Loki is "knocking around" the Hulk.

F-22 cannon fire did absolutely nothing against Hulk's skin. Not sure if Loki's little dagger would pose any significant threat.

Loki tired to, but it failed, as Banner kept control "sorry, you don't get to see my party trick". Possible, but we'll never know, as Loki didn't try it on Banner or the Hulk.

I would say the Daggers are >> F-22 cannon fire for the simple fact that Loki himself is bulletproof and so is Thor since Thor is greater than Loki. Loki was able to easily cut Thor with one of those daggers.

I think one of those to the neck would stun the hulk a bit.

The problem is it was working and it took other people snapping Banner out of it, and Bruce still had and uncontrolled change following it.

Originally posted by Robtard
Hulk stopped a massive warship with a punch and its mass+momentum only managed to push him back a few yards. I don't think Loki is "knocking around" the Hulk.

F-22 cannon fire did absolutely nothing against Hulk's skin. Not sure if Loki's little dagger would pose any significant threat.

Loki tired to, but it failed, as Banner kept control "sorry, you don't get to see my party trick". Possible, but we'll never know, as Loki didn't try it on Banner or the Hulk.

Thor takes a repulsor blast to the face without any effect and Loki is unharmed by gun fire, but those magical knives had no trouble piercing Thor's skin.

Hulk's skin isn't exactly adamantium and he has been shown to bleed. He'd probably heal right after getting stabbed though, but to say that Hulk doesn't feel pain is silly. When Thor gave Hulk that mjolnir uppercut you can see that Hulk was groggy and was in pain for a few secs.

I think we all agree that Hulk would probably win against Loki even if Loki was fully armed. What we argue though is that a fully armed and fully fighting Loki would have given Hulk a lot more trouble, probably more trouble than Thor himself considering that Loki uses illusions and tricks and last time I checked, Hulk isn't exactly the smartest person around.