Thor amoring up did seem kind of magical. So it could be a full power mode.
But more proof would be required of 1. That he did power up when he summoned his full armor, and 2. How much of a power up are we talking here?
But then again if we're using the logic that's been used in this thread, like Hulk gets stronger when he gets madder because we saw his eyes glow..... then Thor magically armoring up is more than enough proof of a power up!
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Thor amoring up did seem kind of magical. So it could be a full power mode.But more proof would be required of 1. That he did power up when he summoned his full armor, and 2. How much of a power up are we talking here?
But then again if we're using the logic that's been used in this thread, like Hulk gets stronger when he gets madder because we saw his eyes glow..... then Thor magically armoring up is more than enough proof of a power up!
Agreed. It seems reasonable but we can't really say its a fact.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Thor amoring up did seem kind of magical. So it could be a full power mode.But more proof would be required of 1. That he did power up when he summoned his full armor, and 2. How much of a power up are we talking here?
But then again if we're using the logic that's been used in this thread, like Hulk gets stronger when he gets madder because we saw his eyes glow..... then Thor magically armoring up is more than enough proof of a power up!
Unlike Hulk, who is defined by his "madder/stronger" dynamic and who has that dynamic express itself visually through such devices as his eyes glowing (initial transformation from Bruce always involves the eyes glowing) to imply a surge of power, Thor doesn't have any such relation to his costume. Instead he has explicit equipment that does amp him (belt of strength etc).
So no, I don't think I buy your equivalence here.
Originally posted by janus77
You presume that it is "powering up", yet no real difference could be detected in effect afterwards. It's much more likely that Thor was getting protection for his body (which is what armour does) as well as getting fully dressed for battle.
Read again I didn't presume anything. But it's not unreasonable to imply there's probably at least some advantage to him armoring up, that's why he did it. If nothing else he'll at least be capable of taking more punishment in full armor.
Originally posted by janus77
Unlike Hulk, who is defined by his "madder/stronger" dynamic and who has that dynamic express itself visually through such devices as his eyes glowing (initial transformation from Bruce always involves the eyes glowing) to imply a surge of power, Thor doesn't have any such relation to his costume. Instead he has explicit equipment that does amp him (belt of strength etc).
Hulk is defined by the madder/stronger dynamic in comics. The movie versions power set are very different. So glowing eyes may not mean anything more than Hulk is madder and more determined to fight.
It's not enough proof to say he gets stronger in the comics therefore he must in the movie as well. Especially with contradictory evidence with Hulk getting his ass kicked the whole rest of the fight and never once getting stronger.
Same goes for Thor. In comics like you mentioned there is belt of strength and special gauntlets and other clothing which increase his power.
But again this isn't the comics. The movie version may have just stuck to his full armor being Thor's full power mode. Maybe.
Edit- It may be Hulk does get stronger in the movies. But the proof presented so far is not proof at all.
Unless you have proof that the movie version does not conform to Hulk's core characteristics, you are simply making shit up.
It's Hulk, big, green, angry, smashes a lot, stronger than anyone else... Norton's Hulk even showed that he grew stronger in times of stress (when Betty was endangered, he overpowered Abomination, something he could not do at all earlier).
You are trying childish 'debating' tricks here, you cast doubt upon a core element of the make up of Hulk and at the same time wank stuff about it possibly being true that Thor amps from a costume change.
So you basically try and draw an equivalence between something that is essential to the very definition of one character [Hulk - madder/stronger], that has been shown in movie depictions and in all Marvel media depictions (cartoons, animations, comics...) and something that you think might be added to boost another character, which is neither depicted within comics nor hinted at within the movie we are discussing.
This is nothing but your bias struggling to justify the unjustifiable wanking that you are attempting to pass as objective assessment. With the end goal being to give Thor a boost and try and support the ridiculous idea that Thor somehow overall might be as powerful as Hulk.
Originally posted by Placidity
Actually, we have come across issues like this before, and unfortunately, however frustrating, I believe it was discussed all claims must have feats in the film and not based on other media.I don't personally believe it should be a hard and fast rule, but either way, whether Hulk amps is vague IMO.
I could be similarly obtuse and say that Thor can't use lightning in-doors because he gets the power from the clouds, that Mjolnir is only a mystical conductor of lightning from those clouds.
It isn't like Surfer whether they explicitly made stupid weaknesses so that the plot could move in the direction they wanted (separation from board = loss of power), this is a Marvel studio production that has avoided any glaring differences in characterisation.
Originally posted by janus77
Unless you have proof that the movie version does not conform to Hulk's [b]core characteristics, you are simply making shit up.It's Hulk, big, green, angry, smashes a lot, stronger than anyone else... Norton's Hulk even showed that he grew stronger in times of stress (when Betty was endangered, he overpowered Abomination, something he could not do at all earlier).
You are trying childish 'debating' tricks here, you cast doubt upon a core element of the make up of Hulk and at the same time wank stuff about it possibly being true that Thor amps from a costume change.
So you basically try and draw an equivalence between something that is essential to the very definition of one character [Hulk - madder/stronger], that has been shown in movie depictions and in all Marvel media depictions (cartoons, animations, comics...) and something that you think might be added to boost another character, which is neither depicted within comics nor hinted at within the movie we are discussing.
This is nothing but your bias struggling to justify the unjustifiable wanking that you are attempting to pass as objective assessment. With the end goal being to give Thor a boost and try and support the ridiculous idea that Thor somehow overall might be as powerful as Hulk. [/B]
A lot of big words with nothing to back it up but Hulk Wankery.
I already said it's possible, but from what They've shown so far there is no proof of it whatsoever. In fact evidence to the contrary exists since for 99% of the fight Abom was beating Hulk senseless and Hulk clearly only got weaker, not stronger.
Thor armoring up is actually a lot more clear, and would obviously give some advantage.
Originally posted by janus77
It's not about whether Hulk amps or not but about whether he IS the Hulk that Marvel created or not. The Hulk of the comics translated to film.
You mean the Hulk from the comics who can leap into orbit?! Or one shot an asteroid twice the size of Earth? Was that in any way shape or form translated on screen?
Nope.
Thanks for playing.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
A lot of big words with nothing to back it up but Hulk Wankery.I already said it's possible, but from what They've shown so far there is no proof of it whatsoever. In fact evidence to the contrary exists since for 99% of the fight Abom was beating Hulk senseless and Hulk clearly only got weaker, not stronger.
Thor armoring up is actually a lot more clear, and would obviously give some advantage.
You mean the Hulk from the comics who can leap into orbit?! Or one shot an asteroid twice the size of Earth? Was that in any way shape or form translated on screen?
Nope.
Thanks for playing.
Hulk amps due to stress/anger, it is an essential element of the character, to deny or cast doubt upon the presence of that dynamic requires evidence, since Marvel are pretty clear that this is The Hulk and since he retains every other outward element of his character. Further to deny that he amps when Marvel give you visual cues - eyes glowing and a sudden increase in strength sufficient to prise free of a superior opponent - is to be wilfully obtuse and ... disingenuous.
So, it comes as no surprise that you still cling to the delusional idea that a previously never seen in comics, non-existent power-amping chain-mail suit is a possibility for Thor of equal likelihood to a core character trait of madder/stronger for Hulk.
You have neither evidence to support your delusion, whether it be within this film or within the broader Marvel portrayal of the character yet you think it of similar likelihood to the on-screen visually indicated strength-amping that Hulk is known for and has always been known for.
In that case, Hulk is just as likely to have gained the power of flight from those pants he received from the old man as Thor is to have been weakened by the weight of the chain-mail armour he had to wear in order to protect himself in battle.
What? you say Hulk never flew? He was flying all the time, his leaps were just uncoordinated efforts at flight, he'll get that under control soon.
Originally posted by janus77
How surprising that you produce an utterly facetious reply. Power levels in comics and power-levels in films not tallying is both a straw-man argument (being irrelevant to the matter at hand) and a further demonstration of your disingenuous agenda here.Hulk amps due to stress/anger, it is an essential element of the character, to deny or cast doubt upon the presence of that dynamic requires evidence, since Marvel are pretty clear that this is The Hulk and since he retains every other outward element of his character. Further to deny that he amps when Marvel give you visual cues - eyes glowing and a sudden increase in strength sufficient to prise free of a superior opponent - is to be wilfully obtuse and ... disingenuous.
So, it comes as no surprise that you still cling to the delusional idea that a previously never seen in comics, non-existent power-amping chain-mail suit is a possibility for Thor of equal likelihood to a [b]core
character trait of madder/stronger for Hulk.You have neither evidence to support your delusion, whether it be within this film or within the broader Marvel portrayal of the character yet you think it of similar likelihood to the on-screen visually indicated strength-amping that Hulk is known for and has always been known for.
In that case, Hulk is just as likely to have gained the power of flight from those pants he received from the old man as Thor is to have been weakened by the weight of the chain-mail armour he had to wear in order to protect himself in battle.
What? you say Hulk never flew? He was flying all the time, his leaps were just uncoordinated efforts at flight, he'll get that under control soon. [/B]
Most of your post is not even worth replying to.
But if you insist on characters having every one of their core foundational powers from the comics without any proof of the movie version having the specific core ability in question, then fine this is easy...
Thor has a Godblast which disintegrates Hulk.
As for your continuing baseless claims, Movie versions often have abilities not shown in the comics. Sometimes they lack core abilities their comic counterparts have.
Spiderman required no web shooters to fire webbing in his movie.
Storm did not have the ability to fly in the first 2 X-Men movies, despite that being a core ability of hers in the comics.
Captain America's shield has no adamantium. He has healing powers never mentioned in the comics as far as I remember.
The list goes on.
So for you to assume Hulk gets stronger as the fight goes on, when he was clearly getting weaker for 99% of his fight with Abom is based on nothing factual, but just your fan boy wishes.
To also deny that Thor's armor (which was specifically shown to transform on him magically through his lightning) does absolutely nothing to help him, is also a pretty biased assumption.
Even if it's just regular armor (doubtful) it would at the very least increase his durability.
Originally posted by Zack Fair
I don't really care about the silly nosebleed. What does matter to me is how the laser barrage put a stop to Hulk's rampage.
Yes I would think that as better evidence as well. But trust me without the nose bleed the whole Hulk camp were going to try and claim he was completely indestructible to damage! In fact they were doing just that until Ares posted the nose bleed pic.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
As for your continuing baseless claims, Movie versions often have abilities not shown in the comics. Sometimes they lack core abilities their comic counterparts have.Spiderman required no web shooters to fire webbing in his movie.
Storm did not have the ability to fly in the first 2 X-Men movies, despite that being a core ability of hers in the comics.
Captain America's shield has no adamantium. He has healing powers never mentioned in the comics as far as I remember.
Just remembered another important one. Magneto in the movies has no magnetic shields.
That's a pretty core ability of his in the comics!
Heck he even lacked the majority of his core energy manipulation abilities!
Originally posted by janus77Thor isn't overall as powerful as Hulk. He's more powerful.
With the end goal being to give Thor a boost and try and support the ridiculous idea that Thor somehow overall might be as powerful as Hulk.
Hulk is physically stronger, but Thor's raw, demonstrated power output blows Hulk out of the water.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Most of your post is not even worth replying to.But if you insist on characters having every one of their core foundational powers from the comics without any proof of the movie version having the specific core ability in question, then fine this is easy...
Thor has a Godblast which disintegrates Hulk.
So yes, Hulk simply tanks the "GB" as easily as he walked through the alien lasers and then he snaps Thor's neck 🙂
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
As for your continuing baseless claims, Movie versions often have abilities not shown in the comics. Sometimes they lack core abilities their comic counterparts have.Spiderman required no web shooters to fire webbing in his movie.
Storm did not have the ability to fly in the first 2 X-Men movies, despite that being a core ability of hers in the comics.
Captain America's shield has no adamantium. He has healing powers never mentioned in the comics as far as I remember.
The list goes on.
So for you to assume Hulk gets stronger as the fight goes on, when he was clearly getting weaker for 99% of his fight with Abom is based on nothing factual, but just your fan boy wishes.
To also deny that Thor's armor (which was specifically shown to transform on him magically through his lightning) does absolutely nothing to help him, is also a pretty biased assumption.
Even if it's just regular armor (doubtful) it would at the very least increase his durability.
Thor's armour does NOTHING TO AMP HIM, that's what I said, it doesn't increase his power, no basis to assert such an amp. No evidence whatsoever. period.
You are squirming and trying to get out of what you were saying, you were suggesting that it made him stronger, not that it made him more durable (which is what I said is the obvious result of said armouring up).
Hulk was "getting weaker 99% of his fight" with Abomination?
1) How on earth do you even judge "99% of his fight"; and
2) How do you know he was getting weaker, what base level do you use?
Your "point" isn't at all coherent, were you just rewinding through the battle? because that's the only way you could explain him being overpowered for most of the fight and then eventually out-muscling Abomination as "growing weaker".
Your lies are now just plain. As such, there's nothing to do but dismiss your 'contributions' for the biased and dishonest crap that they are.
Originally posted by janus77Now you're really losing it here, simply throwing out lies to bulk up your post?
Thor's armour does NOTHING TO AMP HIM, that's what I said, it doesn't increase his power, no basis to assert such an amp. No evidence whatsoever. period.
First you don't know that. The way they presented the scene certainly suggested that it MIGHT be his full power mode. Which is all I was saying.
It's certainly more logical than: "Oh right at the end of the Abom vs Hulk fight when Betty was in danger Hulk fought with more determination and pulled Abom's arm off him, which obviously means he got stronger."
Which also obviousLy mean Spider man gets stronger as he gets madder. Because the Green Goblin was kicking his ass in S1 until he threatened MJ, then Pete kicked his ass!
So clearly Both Hulk and Spider man getting Stronger the madder they get. Their fight scenes obviously proved it, since they fought better every time their loved ones were in danger! Woop! Go Spidey!
Originally posted by janus77
You are squirming and trying to get out of what you were saying, you were suggesting that it made him stronger, not that it made him more durable (which is what I said is the obvious result of said armouring up).
I'm saying just basic common sense would tell anyone that Fully armored Thor would at the very least be more durable.
The fact that he magically armored up through his Lightning in the same fashion that healed all his wounds in the first movie, suggests there MAY be more to his full armor mode.
Originally posted by janus77
Hulk was "getting weaker 99% of his fight" with Abomination?
1) How on earth do you even judge "99% of his fight"; and
2) How do you know he was getting weaker, what base level do you use?
Clearly you completely missed the part where Abom knocked him around senseless, and Hulk was looking dizzy and having trouble standing. Does that sound like he was getting stronger or weaker to you?
Originally posted by janus77
Your "point" isn't at all coherent, were you just rewinding through the battle? because that's the only way you could explain him being overpowered for most of the fight and then eventually out-muscling Abomination as "growing weaker".Your lies are now just plain. As such, there's nothing to do but dismiss your 'contributions' for the biased and dishonest crap that they are.
Blah Blah I'm a Hulk fan boy and I will make shit up like the weak Norton version of the Hulk gets stronger as the fight goes on, even though this was never mentioned or suggested in the movie.
I will cling to baseless speculation like:
"Because Hulk saw Betty and pulled Abom off him" and pretend that's clear evidence Hulk gets stronger as the fight goes on. Even though Spider man and every hero does this at some point, I don't care, it's Hulk, and I love Hulk.. Hulk Smash! Hulk only get stronger!
I will show you clear proof from the Avengers movie that Hulk is clearly much more powerful than Thor NO CONTEST AT ALL!
How do I know this?! Because Hulk Smashed! He gave Thor a Bloody Nose! No one stronger than Hulk!
I know Thor didn't want to fight Hulk, dodged most his punches, and was only trying to restrain him. I know Thor didn't unleash any of his exotic powers on Hulk, but that doesn't matter! Hulk smashed, gave Thor a bloody nose!
And Hulk smashed the Levithian ship in one punch!! One punch! Hulk is the most powerful, it's sooooo damn obvious.
I know Thor also one shot those ships with his Lightning, but he was standing on a building! So obviously the building did most of that. That's so obvious!
And Hulk tanked all those laser blasts! I know they didn't look as powerful as Thor's Jhotenheim Landscape destroying Blast, and I know they stopped Hulk's rampage, and buried him in rubble, but it doesn't matter because he's Hulk, and he smashed and can take anything Thor can throw at him!
It's so obvious how much more powerful he is is than Thor! So what if he probably couldn't even hit Thor when he's flying all over the place in an open area! Hulk will Thunderclap and Thor will fall to the floor.
So what if Thor could whip him up in a tornado like he did the Destroyer! Hulk will Thunderclap TWICE and the Tornado will disappear!
Do you people not all see How Powerful Hulk is now! And how hopelessly outmatched Thor is! Isn't it just sooooo Damn Obvious!!!
HULK SMASH!
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
First you don't know that. The way they presented the scene certainly suggested that it MIGHT be his full power mode. Which is all I was saying.It's certainly more logical than: "Oh right at the end of the Abom vs Hulk fight when Betty was in danger Hulk fought with more determination and pulled Abom's arm off him, which obviously means he got stronger."
Which also obviousLy mean Spider man gets stronger as he gets madder. Because the Green Goblin was kicking his ass in S1 until he threatened MJ, then Pete kicked his ass!
So clearly Both Hulk and Spider man getting Stronger the madder they get. Their fight scenes obviously proved it, since they fought better every time their loved ones were in danger! Woop! Go Spidey!
I'm saying just basic common sense would tell anyone that Fully armored Thor would at the very least be more durable.
The fact that he magically armored up through his Lightning in the same fashion that healed all his wounds in the first movie, suggests there MAY be more to his full armor mode.
Clearly you completely missed the part where Abom knocked him around senseless, and Hulk was looking dizzy and having trouble standing. Does that sound like he was getting stronger or weaker to you?
Blah Blah I'm a Hulk fan boy and I will make shit up like the weak Norton version of the Hulk gets stronger as the fight goes on, even though this was never mentioned or suggested in the movie.
I will cling to baseless speculation like:
"Because Hulk saw Betty and pulled Abom off him" and pretend that's clear evidence Hulk gets stronger as the fight goes on. Even though Spider man and every hero does this at some point, I don't care, it's Hulk, and I love Hulk.. Hulk Smash! Hulk only get stronger!
I will show you clear proof from the Avengers movie that Hulk is clearly much more powerful than Thor NO CONTEST AT ALL!
How do I know this?! Because Hulk Smashed! He gave Thor a Bloody Nose! No one stronger than Hulk!
I know Thor didn't want to fight Hulk, dodged most his punches, and was only trying to restrain him. I know Thor didn't unleash any of his exotic powers on Hulk, but that doesn't matter! Hulk smashed, gave Thor a bloody nose!
And Hulk smashed the Levithian ship in one punch!! One punch! Hulk is the most powerful, it's sooooo damn obvious.
I know Thor also one shot those ships with his Lightning, but he was standing on a building! So obviously the building did most of that. That's so obvious!
And Hulk tanked all those laser blasts! I know they didn't look as powerful as Thor's Jhotenheim Landscape destroying Blast, and I know they stopped Hulk's rampage, and buried him in rubble, but it doesn't matter because he's Hulk, and he smashed and can take anything Thor can throw at him!
It's so obvious how much more powerful he is is than Thor! So what if he probably couldn't even hit Thor when he's flying all over the place in an open area! Hulk will Thunderclap and Thor will fall to the floor.
So what if Thor could whip him up in a tornado like he did the Destroyer! Hulk will Thunderclap TWICE and the Tornado will disappear!
Do you people not all see How Powerful Hulk is now! And how hopelessly outmatched Thor is! Isn't it just sooooo Damn Obvious!!!
HULK SMASH!