The Living Tribunal vs...

Terms: No "literal" plot devices, including:

Creation Blades
Heart of the Universe

or equivalently capable tools.

The "real" TOAA, and Marvel TOAA are BOTH excluded from this fight. No writers, or higher to make a fuss about. Other than that, you can bring whoever you can think of.

You can bring FICTIONAL comic creations like Presence, Man of Miracles, Chaos King, Cytorrak, PR Beyonder, CA Supes, Death, Lucifer Morningstar, TOAA (Celestial), The Horde, God Spawn, Great Evil Beast, Scathan, Tiamat, Ellaine, The Phoenix, Hope, Protege, PC Supes for crying out loud... ANYBODY who is not excluded. You can even try the fourth wall BS if you want. If they have a plot device weapon, armor, or power derived directly from any of the EXCLUDED sources, it is not allowed in any form.

you might as well say that if someone wants do beat LT, they must do it within their own capability or teamed up with another creation aside from excluded persons and disregarding excluded plot devices.

who in fiction can bring down LT? feel free to fanboy and spaz out, no harm intended what so ever by this thread. please stay on topic...don't throw insults, you can sneak jabs in with those pics like that wrestler and joker, i don't care because it's all fun and good. just be logical

you can use scans. you can consider bios, wikis...video game appearances, etc to support your claim.

Is LT the strongest fictional creation? The reigning champion with the right to dictate necessity over TOAA's creation? Top of the cosmic hierarchy, regardless if people use Eternity and Oblivion against him? Lets find out right here, in this thread, once and for all.

Squirrel Girl [/thread]

I think those who were or became "all powerful" such as the Infinity Being, Sise-Neg, and the Alien Entity would be more poweful than the Living Tribunal, considering they were capable of the Big Bang and the Living Tribunal was originally created in such a Big Bang.

Who was that Story Vampire in Final Crisis?

Him.

From the ones you mentioned:

The Presence
PR Beyonder
Great Evil Beast
Elaine Belloc

Any of them is strong enough to kill the LT or erase him from existence permanently.

CA Superman can potentially kill LT as well, but he is aided by a plot device/armor.

A few Celestials are probably as powerful, if not more, than the LT.
If the Protege incident is any indication of Scathan's power, he might be stronger than LT as well.
Same as Tiamut, if he is indeed The Fulcrum's equal.

Has LT even been killed besides HOTU Thanos?

Originally posted by golem370
Has LT even been killed besides HOTU Thanos?

I don't see any reason why they can't accomplish the same feat.

Grant Morrison, as depicted in Animal Man.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Grant Morrison, as depicted in Animal Man.

LT is a Judge it is not his place to be executioner. I think the reason LT didn't put a stop to the guy who stole his powers is we want the people in the universe to decide once they decided on LT he stopped the guy. LT did the samething in with Thanos when he had the gauntlet because Thanos took over the powers of Eternity he didn't stop him because Eternity was replaced Thanos did not kill by him just replaced him.

Originally posted by CortSether
I think those who were or became "all powerful" such as the Infinity Being, Sise-Neg, and the Alien Entity would be more poweful than the Living Tribunal, considering they were capable of the Big Bang and the Living Tribunal was originally created in such a Big Bang.

Opinion acknowledged.

I disagree about Sise-Neg. When Sise-Neg became all of Marvel, with all extant powers in existence...I believe that meant everything within Marvels continuity. Same thing with Thanos when he everything. Same thing if CK would have won the Chaos War. They became the totality of marvels continuity, they can't logically be talking about absorbing all of every other company. (not saying that's what you were asserting, nor am i saying that a story couldn't be written with the same principals anywhere else) Ultimately, it must have been necessary for Sise to absorb everything, and re-start everything.

in worst-case scenario, Sise has to go back to Full Power and LT can deny him the necessity of doing that. likely permanently, as he is the embodiment of necessity.

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
From the ones you mentioned:

The Presence
PR Beyonder
Great Evil Beast
Elaine Belloc

Any of them is strong enough to kill the LT or erase him from existence permanently.

CA Superman can potentially kill LT as well, but he is aided by a plot device/armor.

A few Celestials are probably as powerful, if not more, than the LT.
If the Protege incident is any indication of Scathan's power, he might be stronger than LT as well.
Same as Tiamut, if he is indeed The Fulcrum's equal.

what would be necessary for them to draw upon such a power, than LT isn't capable of responding to as the embodiment of Vengeance?

how do they have powers greater than him, when as the embodiment of equity he is at least all of their equal?

and if need be?

LT is definitely more omnipotent than Presence, whom was created by external forces, and who has an opposite in the great evil beast. LT's virtual omnipotence is contested in no way. what's stopping LT from making judgement that draws upon those same forces to eliminate him?

Tiamat? people want to bring a celestial into the fray, because of who...Scathan trumping someone who was a mere material being playing with incredible forces that he had no business with a disapproval?

PR Beyonder? Please.

Considering any potential Protege/PR Beyonder arguments, plus the retcons that did take place...how do we know they weren't NECESSARY the whole time, for whatever reason?

Originally posted by golem370
LT is a Judge it is not his place to be executioner. I think the reason LT didn't put a stop to the guy who stole his powers is we want the people in the universe to decide once they decided on LT he stopped the guy. LT did the samething in with Thanos when he had the gauntlet because Thanos took over the powers of Eternity he didn't stop him because Eternity was replaced Thanos did not kill by him just replaced him.

LT doesn't even have to kill them, he can just keep them in their place.

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
Some of the said beings are equal to THOTI.

I don't see any reason why they can't accomplish the same feat.

some things have been disregarded from this thread, but not for the reasons you lean towards.

HOTI could erase Presence, GEB, CA Supes, and Mandrakk as well, they are not equal to such a plot device from my perspective. If Thanos performed the same feat in DC, there would be no more Presence, GEB, Ellaine Belloc. DC Continuity would consist of Thanos. Even then...could LT survive that? If it was NECESSARY...more than likely, I don't see why not, as he is the embodiment of neccesity. After someone goes that cheap route and destroys everything, LT's big 3 heads will float around in the blackness and start laughing because it is NECESSARY for someone to tell the story from that point. And it's TOAA.

To add insult to injury, even CK could potentially threaten to absorb everything if he were in DC. and once again if he were to win, there'd be no Presence, GEB, CA Supes, etc. he'd be working toward becoming DCs equivalent to HOTI by absorbing it all, instead of it getting discovered. In case of this thread, LT could send CK as his defense against any opposition, what's stopping him? Who is stopping him here? If he judges that as the necessary vengeance against all opposition, to absorb them all into the nothingness in order to protect TOAA...wtf is anybody going to do here?

Such plot devices are apparently stemming from this "omnipotent entity" that a certain company identifies with "TOAA." the same being that created first NECESSITY (whats necessary to create? TOAAs power), THEN anything else...including Heaven / Hyperspace, Hell / Nether Realm(s). That much power is questionable, and debatable, so you can't include that here. I'm actually giving people a chance to fight before they get judged. you can't give a creation the 'anti-creation' weapon, at least for this thread...that's cheap.

where as, Presence, GEB...pretty much no fictional creation is far from equal to the instrument of...the creator. so those fictional creations have not been banned from this thread, and instruments of the creator (hoti, or equivalent) on the other hand have been eliminated

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Grant Morrison, as depicted in Animal Man.

...and what exactly would be necessary for Animal Man to pull a win here? 😎

You believe TOAA to be the real God. You also believe LT to be his 2nd and judge, which extends out of comics and into real life because necessity exists in real life.

There's only one answer you'll ever accept, and it's TOAA/God in real life, so what the f**ks the point of making a thread about it?

Originally posted by Blight
Who was that Story Vampire in Final Crisis?

Him.

that would be...Mandrakk the Dark Monitor, right?

same being that NEEDS sustenance from "The Bleed..."

...which is even that impressive to a being that judges the omniverse.

*The Bleed accounts for SPACE (an abstract, mind you, subordinate of LT) connected to Source Wall (Presence or whoever you equate it to), "multiversal nexus," and "nanoverse"...

you think LT doesn't have power over that?

Originally posted by Cogito
You believe TOAA to be the real God. You also believe LT to be his 2nd and judge, which extends out of comics and into real life because necessity exists in real life.

There's only one answer you'll ever accept, and it's TOAA/God in real life, so what the f**ks the point of making a thread about it?

I'll give my opposition the benefit of the doubt, and stick to my guns.

Lets say....TOAA is..."the one people people write to be omnipotent"

change the quote with any "supreme being," and they are still banned.

so who outside of TOAA is going to beat LT?

yeah, that's right. stick to fictional creations, leave god out of it. what creation can stand their ground against the embodiment of necessity, equity, and vengeance?

Originally posted by Jynocidus
...and what exactly would be necessary for Animal Man to pull a win here? 😎

Dunno.

I was talking about this guy:

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Dunno.

I was talking about this guy:

oh come on, you've gotta know something. you wouldn't have recommended him if you didn't think even HE could dictate necessity.

what's so spectacular about...wait, what is his name? It looks like he is standing next to a costumed super hero i'd equate with the DC continuity.

help me out, here 🙂