Phoenix (x-men movies) VS Thor (marvel movies)

Originally posted by Zack Fair
Intentionally didn't kill Wolverine? I don't know about that. She still burnt him to his very bones, but she couldn't destroy the adamantium and he healed at a pace that makes Bana Hulk a crybaby.

She could have tossed him away or simply levitated him and flayed all the flesh from his body while he was floating helplessly. She is a high end tk after all. He walked up on her and got caught in waves of disintegration which he pushed through, but she didn't just focus an all out assault on him. She stood there in the middle of all the chaos she was causing and let Wolverine kill her to end it because she'd lost control.

YouTube video

Watch from 1:30.

Originally posted by Zack Fair
Intentionally didn't kill Wolverine? I don't know about that. She still burnt him to his very bones, but she couldn't destroy the adamantium and he healed at a pace that makes Bana Hulk a crybaby.

The myth that DP tried to kill Wolverine and couldn't is a myth that has been debunked over and over especially in the Movie Vs forums.

She wasn't trying to kill him at all, she only gave Wolverine a few small waves of her disintegrating power to his chest.

Originally posted by Zack Fair
Like Wolvie right?

Don't be an idiot. Never mind disintegration, you think Wolverine can just walk through a telekinetic hold on him if she chose not to let him move?

Still going with hammer to the face strategy.

I think he can overpower her TK hold on him and tank her desintegration wave. If he can't then he is screwed.

Who or what did Jean waste with disintegration to justify her doing it to Thor? Serious question.

We've already seen Thor tank blasts capable of disintegration in the form of Gungnir and Mjolnir was capable of deflecting the Destroyer's own disintegration beams.

Jean's telepathy is a safer bet to argue for, but her telepathy wasn't as potent as Xavier's and her TK was what was put over the most in the films.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Who or what did Jean waste with disintegration to justify her doing it to Thor? Serious question.

Pretty much everything she wanted to disintegrate, she did. I also don't see Thor having any really high end durability feats. Honestly, I think he would lose to Colossus in a fist fight. At the very least, his eyeballs get disintegrated.

Like I said earlier, baring disintegration, she can still smack him around or completely immobilize him so he can't even lift his arm to hurl Mjolnir.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Jean's telepathy is a safer bet to argue for, but her telepathy wasn't as potent as Xavier's and her TK was what was put over the most in the films.

She is on par with Xavier, or not very far behind. She took control of Xavier at the end of X2, and she fought Xavier to a stalemate in X3.

Originally posted by Placidity
Pretty much everything she wanted to disintegrate, she did. I also don't see Thor having any really high end durability feats. Honestly, I think he would lose to Colossus in a fist fight. At the very least, his eyeballs get disintegrated.

Like I said earlier, baring disintegration, she can still smack him around or completely immobilize him so he can't even lift his arm to hurl Mjolnir.

She is on par with Xavier, or not very far behind. She took control of Xavier at the end of X2, and she fought Xavier to a stalemate in X3.

But what did she disintegrate that leads you to believe she could do the same to Thor? She wasted humans and mutants without any kind of durability feats to speak of, not really the same as wiping away a guy who has proven durability feats including attacks with specific disintegration qualities. Not sure what feats or showings you'd use to argue him losing to a fist fight to Colossus with, either.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
But what did she disintegrate that leads you to believe she could do the same to Thor? She wasted humans and mutants without any kind of durability feats to speak of

Not just mutants and people. Cars, buildings etc. Also one of the very thick metal vault doors in the underground X-Mansion - you know the type Striker couldn't hope to get through with all the explosives at his disposal and thus needed the retinal device. And she does it all without even trying.

Let me ask you - do you think she wouldn't have been able to disintegrate Colossus just as effortlessly as anyone else?

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
not really the same as wiping away a guy who has proven durability feats including attacks with specific disintegration qualities.

I think you are pointing out one instance out of all his showings, but based on the vast majority of showings, his durability is not really that impressive. Also about Loki's staff, that's powered by magic, so it could be argued its Thor's magic resistance/armor that saved him. Not only that, the damage caused by the blast is largely inconsistent - It has shown to be a concussive blast in one instance, but turns a Frost Giant into sparks in another.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Not sure what feats or showings you'd use to argue him losing to a fist fight to Colossus with, either.

In Avengers, Thor did not want to get hit by bullets, Colossus has no such problems.

Originally posted by Placidity
Not just mutants and people. Cars, buildings etc. Also one of the very thick metal vault doors in the underground X-Mansion - you know the type Striker couldn't hope to get through with all the explosives at his disposal and thus needed the retinal device. And she does it all without even trying.

Let me ask you - do you think she wouldn't have been able to disintegrate Colossus just as effortlessly as anyone else?

I think you are pointing out one instance out of all his showings, but based on the vast majority of showings, his durability is not really that impressive. Also about Loki's staff, that's powered by magic, so it could be argued its Thor's magic resistance/armor that saved him. Not only that, the damage caused by the blast is largely inconsistent - It has shown to be a concussive blast in one instance, but turns a Frost Giant into sparks in another.

In Avengers, Thor did not want to get hit by bullets, Colossus has no such problems.

Thor's taken damage that would wreck cars and buildings and the like and was no worse for the wear. That doesn't mean Jean could disintegrate him or Mjolnir or anything. Iron Man's repulsors at normal power would blow a lot of that stuff up, let alone amplied to something over 400%, and Thor took a point blank shot to the face and wasn't even hurt. It says a lot about his default durabilty.

Depends, tbh. I can see her having issues or dismissing him easily, but it's a moot point as I don't see movie Colossus being on the same level as Thor at all.

How is his durability not that impressive as a whole? He has plenty of good durability feats in both his own movie and the Avengers, clearly enough of both to get a good sense of where he stands. Gungnir being magic composed doesn't detract anything from Thor, and assuming that's why he was able to endure the multiple blasts from it certainly doesn't make it any less potent. We saw first hand what Gungnir was able to do to Laufey, King of the Frost Giants and a peer to Odin if the movie was any indicator. The first blast injured him grievously, and the second one disintegrated him. There's no reason to assume that Loki wasn't attempting to do the same to Thor. He also survives the backlash explosion of the Bifrost and its energies being unleashed, and we saw first hand what the concentrated energy of the Bifrost was capable of.

Loki was completely unaffected by bullets in the Avengers. Considering Thor has already endured damage far greater than that of gunfire, him not wanting to be caught by it doesn't somehow mean he's weak or less durable to that avenue of attack. And it certainly doesn't mean Colossus is > Thor, either.

So, in short, I really don't see her easily disintegrating Thor, not based off of what kind of damage he took. Telepathy is something else entirely.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Thor's taken damage that would wreck cars and buildings and the like and was no worse for the wear. That doesn't mean Jean could disintegrate him or Mjolnir or anything. Iron Man's repulsors at normal power would blow a lot of that stuff up, let alone amplied to something over 400%, and Thor took a point blank shot to the face and wasn't even hurt. It says a lot about his default durabilty.

Blowing stuff up and the way DP disintegrates something cannot even be compared. DP completely... whats the word... disintegrates objects, that means it rips them apart at the molecular structure... completely and instantly. If someone survives a blast that can blow up a car, it doesn't follow that they would survive being disintegrated by TK that can disintegrate a car completely and instantly. The later is an extremely more powerful attack, and completely different in nature.

I guess we could talk about it all day about how we don't KNOW if she could disintegrate him, but going by her display of destructive power and implied unstoppable force, I feel the onus is on the other side to support that Thor wouldn't be disintegrated along with everything else. Of course you disagree with that but that's okay.

Let me ask you though, do you think Thor's eyeball's are durable enough to withstand disintegration?

Also, do you think Colossus would've survived being blasted by Iron Man or similar attacks?

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
How is his durability not that impressive as a whole? He has plenty of good durability feats in both his own movie and the Avengers, clearly enough of both to get a good sense of where he stands. Gungnir being magic composed doesn't detract anything from Thor, and assuming that's why he was able to endure the multiple blasts from it certainly doesn't make it any less potent. We saw first hand what Gungnir was able to do to Laufey, King of the Frost Giants and a peer to Odin if the movie was any indicator. The first blast injured him grievously, and the second one disintegrated him. There's no reason to assume that Loki wasn't attempting to do the same to Thor. He also survives the backlash explosion of the Bifrost and its energies being unleashed, and we saw first hand what the concentrated energy of the Bifrost was capable of.

Ignoring Loki's staff discussion, I really don't see (recall) any impressive quantifiable durability feats for Thor. And by impressive, I don't mean surviving random explosions.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Loki was completely unaffected by bullets in the Avengers. Considering Thor has already endured damage far greater than that of gunfire, him not wanting to be caught by it doesn't somehow mean he's weak or less durable to that avenue of attack.

Loki being unaffected I felt was really inconsistent to me. His levels go up and down throughout IMO, but I'd have to watch the film again to comment further. Even Hulk was affected by gunfire in both movies, and I don't see Thor/Loki being that far above him.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
And it certainly doesn't mean Colossus is > Thor, either.

You mean in terms of durability right?

Bullet angle was all I had, Colossus doesn't have that many feats.

at the end of the day, jean got stabbed by wolverine and died, and x3 was a sucky movie, no excuses.

thor destroyed the destroyer, lived through a blast from odin's mighty spear, and didnt even flinch and the thor movie walked out with good reviews.

when the big fishy blew up in their faces while everyone else jumped for cover and finally survived being laughed at by million of people around the world due to a sucker punch from hulk thus making the avengers movie awesome.

Thor wins.

Didn't Thor got stabbed too?

Originally posted by psy_blade
Didn't Thor got stabbed too?

Yep. But its obvious people are going to say it was a magical blade or something like that.

BTW, kick ass sig.

Harhar. Tnx.

Jean can probably possess Thor like she did Prof X.

Originally posted by Placidity
Ignoring Loki's staff discussion, I really don't see (recall) any impressive quantifiable durability feats for Thor. And by impressive, I don't mean surviving random explosions.

Thor does have durability feats. Obviously far above normal human durability.

Originally posted by Placidity
Loki being unaffected I felt was really inconsistent to me. His levels go up and down throughout IMO, but I'd have to watch the film again to comment further. Even Hulk was affected by gunfire in both movies, and I don't see Thor/Loki being that far above him.

How was that inconsistent? He bounced back from being blasted with the big gun from Coulson. Even in the Hulk rag doll scene, he withstood Hawkeye's exploding arrow at point blank range and a massive sucker shot from Hulk. Frankly, the fact that he was conscious from the follow up beating is notable despite the comedy of the scene

Hulk withstood gun fire from an F-22, machine gun bullets would bounce off of him too. That reasoning won't work.

Originally posted by Placidity
Yep. But its obvious people are going to say it was a magical blade or something like that.

BTW, kick ass sig.

That's hardly an unreasonable argument.

Frankly, it makes far more sense for Loki to stab someone like Thor with a mystical dagger rather than any normal blade.

[QUOTE=13838580]Originally posted by Placidity
[B]The myth that DP tried to kill Wolverine and couldn't is a myth that has been debunked over and over especially in the Movie Vs forums.

She wasn't trying to kill him at all, she only gave Wolverine a few small waves of her disintegrating power to his chest.

BASED ON WHAT?

^ Sorry, I've repeated my self probably more than 50 times already literally , mainly in Movie VS, hope you understand I CBS. And you also have a recent history of trolling me, so that factors in too. But its fairly obvious unless you are a fanboy. I'll leave it to someone else.

Originally posted by MF DELPH
Phoenix. She could block a hammer toss with TK, and likely disintegrate Thor. She turned buildings, tanks, hummers, jets and people to dust effortlessly (corny scene with Wolverine notwithstanding), blocked Cyclops optic blasts from emitting using her tk, held off a flood while simultaneously blocking Nightcrawler's teleportation attempt and controlling the Blackbird, and as a kid levitated every car on her block. IMO she has the offense and multitasking ability to beat Movie Thor.

Her power was cool but it really only destroyed in a very limited space, only destroyed things that would be considered below Thor's durability, and then she got killed by Wolverine rather easily.

Yes she let him do it, but the point is if Thor lands one blow she is dead.

We don't know if Jean could do the same to Thor. He maybe able to tank it. I mean he did Survive the fall from the Hellicarrier, being shot by Odin's spear, getting hit multiple times by Hulk and only showing a bloody nose.

Hulk's punches were able to stop a creature even Iron Man couldn't do.

That's a good indicator that Thor can take a lot, and could possibly take Phoenix's attacks considering he is tougher than anything else she tried to destroy.

He's also really strong to as shown by being able to go H2H with Hulk for a limited time, so he could possibly resist Jean trying to over power him with TK.

He could also summon a lightning bolt to attack her with as well while she tries to do that.

Originally posted by Placidity
^ Sorry, I've repeated my self probably more than 50 times already literally , mainly in Movie VS, hope you understand I CBS. And you also have a recent history of trolling me, so that factors in too. But its fairly obvious unless you are a fanboy. I'll leave it to someone else.

Originally posted by Hulkbuster1
Trolling you? I don't even recognise your name!

Irrelevant.

Here, I really wanted to shut you up so I found some of my past posts for you. Now read it, feel embarrassed, log out and never return vile troll.

Do you really think Logan could've gotten close to the Phoenix if she didnt let him? (or Logan>Phoenix) You may have forgotten that she has telekinesis, which is what allows her to "demolecularize" objects. So even if she was struggling to demolecularize him as you claim, she could have pushed him away/ slammed him into the ground/ make him immobile etc (as shown earlier in the film).

They also have a love/hate relationship going on, hence why she didnt kill him. (or some claim that Jean was fighting/holding back the phoenix) Observing what the Phoenix did to other victims should show that she was only using a fraction of her powers against Logan. Basically, she was only striping a few layers off his chest and face. Whereas, when using her full capacity, the victim is demolecularized from head to toe almost instantly (not just the chest etc). Also, the Phoenix asks Logan: "You would die for them?", implying she is capable of killing him. And she probably well may have if Jean didnt surface after that. In addition, Judging by previous feats of Logan's healing factor in the films, it is also obvious he cannot regenerate at any rate as close to how quickly Phoenix can demolecularize objects(i.e almost instantly).

Originally posted by Placidity

Look at the video of Phoenix vs Xavier.

YouTube video
(sorry embed disabled)

3:20 Xavier starts to experience her disintegration powers, but clearly not full power.

3:41 Clearly you can see he is getting layers peeled off him, the cloudy dust effect surrounds him.

4:37 Phoenix uses her full power on him. He vaporizes instantly, from head to toe, his whole body, not just his chest and parts of his face (like what happened to Logan).

Its quite easy to see Phoenix wasn't using her full power on Wolverine. The difference on screen is as distinctive between Cyclop's narrow beams and his uncontrolled, full power blast. Anyone who believes Logan received an attack that has the rate of disintegration that is of equal power to what happened to Xavier as shown in the video, or what happened to the other mutants is delusional. A comparison of the scenes shows it clearly.

YouTube video

More importantly, even after Phoenix launched a few waves of attacks on Logan, his suit was still there. It took a few waves, and at least 30 seconds for her to completely disintegrate the suit? Oops, I think I just completely destroyed that idea. His pants are also on the whole time, but I'll let that one fly, although its already a moot point.

It's also shown on the video, that his whole body is not receiving disintegration, only certain parts of the anterior of his body. Not EVEN CLOSE to full power. We also see his back for a few shots when he is getting the treatment, nothing is happening to it. Heck his hair doesn't even mess up through the whole thing.

Furthermore, as I pointed out before why would Phoenix ask Logan if "would die for them" if she wasn't capable of killing him?

As seen earlier, Wolverine got smashed by DP at the Mansion. He can't move an inch if DP didn't allow it.

Something else I would like to point out is that Jean was unable to effect Wolverine's Adamantium skeleton.

I think it was shown to be to durable for her to destroy. So there was something that could survive her attack based solely on durability.