WW3 Black Adam vs. Thor

Originally posted by CosmicComet
In a nut shell, no one is ever able to provide a counter for the speed argument that is attached to kryptonian level characters, and then they attempt to hide behind the rules which are contradictory in their enforcement/wording in and of themselves and faulty in areas when examined by an actual example.

Black Adam using his speed in an active attempt to WIN, which means he's 'fighting to the best of his ability', means Thor has no counter. The end.

So Thor's omniblast capabilities, homing strikes, and weather manipulation wouldn't suffice against Adam?

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
So Thor's omniblast capabilities, homing strikes, and weather manipulation wouldn't suffice against Adam?

Considering the time it would take for Thor to initiate those attacks, relative to Adam's perception of time, no.

Everything would be telegraphed to Adam.

I don't think I've ever seen Adam deliver an onslaught that I don't believe Thor could weather and respond to. I've certainly never seen Adam continue that type of attack to the point where it would leave a being like Thor helpless long enough to overcome his durability and kill/KO him.

So the 'best of Adam's ability' still requires a defense for Thor's attacks.

Pretty simple as.

Originally posted by Existere
I don't think I've ever seen Adam deliver an onslaught that I don't believe Thor could weather and respond to. I've certainly never seen Adam continue that type of attack to the point where it would leave a being like Thor helpless long enough to overcome his durability and kill/KO him.

So the 'best of Adam's ability' still requires a defense for Thor's attacks.

Pretty simple as.

👆

Originally posted by Existere
I don't think I've ever seen Adam deliver an onslaught that I don't believe Thor could weather and respond to. I've certainly never seen Adam continue that type of attack to the point where it would leave a being like Thor helpless long enough to overcome his durability and kill/KO him.

So the 'best of Adam's ability' still requires a defense for Thor's attacks.

Pretty simple as.

And of course, too polite to even question the evidence behind Black Adam's perception/onslaught or the shallowness of the criticism behind Thor's perception/defenses.

Wouldn't this assume to CosmicComet that beings like TOAA and The Presence would be beaten by Superman and Black Adam because they haven't shown the speed to deal with them in feats?

Originally posted by Blight
Wouldn't this assume to CosmicComet that beings like TOAA and The Presence would be beaten by Superman and Black Adam because they haven't shown the speed to deal with them in feats?

I don't think cc is trolling that hard I just think he is having a hard time distinguishing between powerset and character portrayal.

Originally posted by Blight
Wouldn't this assume to CosmicComet that beings like TOAA and The Presence would be beaten by Superman and Black Adam because they haven't shown the speed to deal with them in feats?

This is very simple.

Omnipotence equals omnipresent. That is above any notion of speed whatsoever.

And as I said in the ocean of text I've dumped in here, which I don't blame anyone for missing, that barring explicit, sufficiently fast reaction feats for a certain speed level, you would need a more exotic setup to combat a big speed advantage.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
I don't think cc is trolling that hard I just think he is having a hard time distinguishing between powerset and character portrayal.

'Distinguishing'? I'm pretty sure I'm the one who wrote a small essay level retort on the problems of attempting to consolidate the two in the first place in this situation.

We ARE NOT, dealing with characters here. Why? We aren't writing a story. We are dealing with names and debate on the powerset that is attributed to those names.

The character argument is, again, amusing because it simply admits once again that Thor has no counter for the speed argument, just that there is the hope that Adam would not use it as well as he could.

Sentiments at play, again. Apparently in a PIS free environment, Adam is still going to be at his top perception speeds where the world seems frozen, but then stand around waiting for Thor's slow motion attacks to finally connect. This is a ridiculous notion.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
This is very simple.

Omnipotence equals omnipresent. That is above any notion of speed whatsoever.

And as I said in the ocean of text I've dumped in here, which I don't blame anyone for missing, that barring explicit, sufficiently fast reaction feats for a certain speed level, you would need a more exotic setup to combat a big speed advantage.

'Distinguishing'? I'm pretty sure I'm the one who wrote a small essay level retort on the problems of attempting to consolidate the two in the first place in this situation.

We ARE NOT, dealing with characters here. Why? We aren't writing a story. We are dealing with names and debate on the powerset that is attributed to those names.

The character argument is, again, amusing because it simply admits once again that Thor has no counter for the speed argument, just that there is the hope that Adam would not use it as well as he could.

Sentiments at play, again. Apparently in a PIS free environment, Adam is still going to be at his top perception speeds where the world seems frozen, but then stand around waiting for Thor's slow motion attacks to finally connect. This is a ridiculous notion.

but that's the way forum battles are otherwise sue would bubble the brain everytime for the win when that's not the case

There are a lot of people Sue would beat using that technique yeah.

But, speed is generally not like that, its usually a passive attribute, not an activated power, like say Cyclops' optic blasts.

Meaning it doesn't have to be 'turned on'.

Originally posted by Existere
I don't think I've ever seen Adam deliver an onslaught that I don't believe Thor could weather and respond to.

Well, Adam did demolish Power Girl a few times. Including a one hit KO.

Under Johns, no less, who also had PG take over duties for Captain Marvel being KOed by 5d imp controlled Superman (Looked like a sucker speed blitz, but it proves Superman was still deadly.)

I've never seen PG get dominated by anyone like Adam has, and PG's held her own with Wonder Woman and Superman.

That said, PG's obviously no Thor, but that's still an impressive power display..

Originally posted by CosmicComet
The character argument is, again, amusing because it simply admits once again that Thor has no counter for the speed argument,

I hope this isn't what your 'essay-level response' consisted of.

If it is, I wish I could have marked your essays.

Originally posted by Existere
lol.

I hope this isn't what your 'essay-level response' consisted of.

If it is, I wish I could have marked your essays.

You of course, have no room to speak, as in the Black Bolt vs Black Adam thread you were able to provide absolutely nothing in retort to my responses regarding the objective meaning of the speed differential at hand, except a meek, noncommittal concession consisting of 'even feats are subjective'.

Kindly be along your way.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
You of course, have no room to speak, as in the Black Bolt vs Black Adam thread you were able to provide absolutely nothing in retort to my responses regarding the objective meaning of the speed differential at hand, except a meek, noncommittal concession consisting of 'even feat are subjective'.

Kindly

I, and others, have explained to you at length the reasoning behind why we take into account character behavior. Mods have explained this to you. You make silly distinctions between 'Characters', and 'Names + Powersets' so that you can troll around shouting about a character who can't actually be found in the pages of any comics.

Like any good troll, you've utterly ignored any responses and have blustered through singing the praises of Black Adam.

Originally posted by Existere
lolwut

I, and others, have explained to you at length the reasoning behind why we take into account character behavior. Mods have explained this to you. You make silly distinctions between 'Characters', and 'Names + Powersets' so that you can troll around shouting about a character who can't actually be found in the pages of any comics.

Like any good troll, you've utterly ignored any responses and have blustered through singing the praises of Black Adam.

You, and others, have time and again failed to actually address the faults I've outlined regarding the marriage attempts of character and powersets, most specifically when it comes to speed, ESPECIALLY, because of contradictory wording of the rules at hand--'operating at your best', PIS/CIS off--these are provisions within the rules of course.

Even in the Black Bolt thread, I went through it at length with Pr, why his reasoning of character over powerset is faulty on principle, and I was given absolutely no retort in the end. Not by him, and not by you, in the end all you ended up doing was attempt to piggyback after the fact and say 'we got a mod ruling here' or some such.

You contributed nothing of note, not in that thread, nor will you here as is obvious right now, and it seems labeling people 'troll' is the only recourse you have left. Unfortunately, all it smacks of is you trying to convince yourself of it, to feign some 'dignity' as the reasoning for your lack of ability (or willingness, whichever) to attempt constructively responding to me. 🙂

Originally posted by CosmicComet
Unfortunately, all it smacks of is you trying to convince yourself of it, to feign some 'dignity' as the reasoning for your lack of constructive ability to respond to me. 🙂

Yeah, troll harder, whatever.

If an actual discussion on this topic springs up, I'm down. Right now I'm feeling it'd just be loads of your 'me against the forum' self-back pats and longwinded posts intended to convince nobody but yourself of a very tired, tried and failed line of logic for debating comic book characters.

My my.

The dignity salvaging, semi-diplomatic last word, non-concession concession attempt. Certainly not predicted. Certainly.

Remember to pat your own back as well, speaking about me doing so.

I also like the sneaky appeal to popularity fallacy attempt buried there and the useless qualifier of 'comics' within the argument--as if that medium of fiction is somehow exempt from the same application of logic, in favor of impasse prone subjectivity, vs any other mediums--other fiction included. 🙂

Why wouldn't we argue characters here? Seems stupid to argue nothing but powersets. Suddenly we have a Silver Surfer boning Blackholes everywhere in the battlefield and Flash being 100% unbeatable.

Except, as I said, I am not talking about consciously activated abilities like Surfer, having to specifically decide to use a particular power. I'm talking about a passive attribute; speed.

And Flash is certainly above MANY people's abilities to beat in a forum. It's going to take more than a typical top tier hero to do so. What is the problem with this when we know what his abilities are?

Regardless, We also are not writing stories, we are arguing hypothetical fights with these characters at their best. If Surfer can beat someone 10/10 using a particular strategy, and he specifically knows he can win using that strategy, and he's TRYING to win, then there's pretty much nothing more that can be said other than predicting that he MIGHT NOT choose to use it.

Originally posted by Blight
Why wouldn't we argue characters here? Seems stupid to argue nothing but powersets. Suddenly we have a Silver Surfer boning Blackholes everywhere in the battlefield and Flash being 100% unbeatable.