CosmicComet
Senior Member
Originally posted by Sin I AM
But your not arguing only feats you have to take into account characters personalities
I already addressed that.
The feats are more important, regardless of what the rules are trying to say, I keep giving an immutable example that shows why the rule is fundamentally flawed for being worded the way it is;
Something without any dialogue or characterization but has feats, can be used in vs threads. Even if it was some random blob that shows up and destroys everything and gets no name or dialogue whatsoever about, it can still be used in a thread, people would just refer to it as 'random blob from issue # x'. Something with characterization and dialogue but no feats--not even implied feats, cannot be argued in vs threads however.
If Black Adam and Thor had no feats, we would be left with nothing but pretty pictures.
If we reduced them to powerset molds or something however, we STILL have something to argue with. We can come up with a checklist of every possible way the powersets could be used, and what we would come to realize is EXACTLY what I'm telling you now;
Thor has no counter for the speed gap. He simply doesn't. Thor is fast, especially going by the high end 'microsecond' statement I'm affording him. Unfortunately, that's still below Adam by a significant amount, enough to where Thor's physical movements will seem like its taking several minutes to complete.
You need the requisite reflexes to counter a speed advantage, if you don't have it, its usually tough luck. If you don't have it, the only other option left is for a more exotic setup; like sensory auto-shielding followed by sufficiently large AOE attacks--but note, even the AOE attack has to be sufficiently fast, otherwise it can be outrun as well.
Moving on, what happens when we add the character aspects back in to the powerset molds? We run into problems, and subjectivity is one of the main problems. Examples like here with people trying to navigate to a subjective solution to the speed quandary since they have no concrete counter. "oh but its not in character for him to use his speed". Well, its not in character for him to act like a complete idiot either, and since we aren't writing a story, we eliminate PIS; such as Black Adam being hittable by those without the reflexes to compensate for his speed--and that's Thor's problem here, he doesn't have the reflexes. To argue that in a hypothetical thread, where PIS/CIS is not a factor (obviously, since we aren't writing a story that needs intrigue and conflict, we are talking about a hypothetical fight with them at their peak), that Black Adam is going to stand in place and wait several minutes for Thor to land one counter-strike, is arguing that Black Adam is basically retarded. And that's so OUT of character and in-congruent to his powerset (wisdom of zehuti) that you realize that Black Adam can't be retarded, you'd basically have to revise the description to being Black Adam is deliberately LETTING Thor get in his hits. Which, as I said before, is why I've always found these flailing attempts at arguing against immutable speed advantages so amusing, because in the end it always boils down to an unwitting admission that there is no counter for the speed, and that the only way for the overly slower character to win is not on his own merits but on counting on the speedier character to deliberately not fight to his best and ALLOW for the slower character, a chance to win.
Furthermore, you know another problem with something subjective about 'in-character' arguments? There is nothing concrete about it, (how could there be, when there's multiple writers?) and thus stalemates can be reached. You say its not 'in-character' for Black Adam to use his speed? Well, I can just as easily say it IS 'in-character' for Black Adam to use his speed. After all, its specifically part of his power set, 'speed of Heru' and all, Adam has referred to it, and he has used it. And was he 'in-character' whenever he has used his speed? Well now, he obviously wasn't pretending to be someone else was he? So of course he was. 😂
Furthermore, the idea/argument being presented that he won't 'always use his speed' to the best of his abilities actually leads to a pretty spastic image if you guys actually think about it. So one moment he might be blitzing Thor and having his way with him, and in the next he's going to just suddenly completely shut himself down and allow himself to be like street level speed? That's retarded. This crazy visual is essentially nothing but a mentally forced 'start-stop-start-stop' cycle, and thinking about it in plain written terms just reinforces further just how dumb it is. Certainly more dumb than something more logical, like saying he will his speed consistently when by board assumptions in the first place they fight 'to the best of their abilities', don't you think?
I'm not interested at all in the questions of 'may happen if X condition is met' (e.g. if 'Black Adam decides to not fight as well as he could, Thor may counter'😉 or what not, I'm only concerned in presenting what WILL happen if an x condition is met;
x condition: Black Adam uses his speed. What will happen: Black Adam wins.
A simple deconstruction of an if-then conditional statement in play here.
The mays and mights, those are all speculation. I'm not interested in that. Facts are quicker; And the simple fact is if Black Adam does use his speed consistently, Thor has no option to win. None. Even a high end microsecond level Thor is too slow. He can only win if Adam allows him the chance, so his fate is entirely in Adam's hands feat wise. He will take a lot of shots before going down of course.
