Doom.
Originally posted by Utrigita
Human Torch survived Doom's lightning (through the chest)
Major PIS imo. No reason why Torch would receive no visible damage while some other poor dude got a large hole through him, and also Doom's blast's shown to melt metal upon contact. Could possibly argue it was Torch's suit which is adapted to temperatures of the sun, but then that wouldn't reduce Doom's feats at all.
Originally posted by Placidity
Doom.Major PIS imo. No reason why Torch would receive no visible damage while some other poor dude got a large hole through him, and also Doom's blast's shown to melt metal upon contact. Could possibly argue it was Torch's suit which is adapted to temperatures of the sun, but then that wouldn't reduce Doom's feats at all.
Reed also toke numerous shots without it penetrating or harming him. My point thus is that while Doom's lightning is easily capable of killing a human have less then awesome feats against characters of superhuman nature. The thing was knocked back but not damaged, Reed was shot (in the fight on the street) multiple times but not damaged, likewise the Human Torch was shot but not damaged. All of those times I simply refuse to simply write of as PIS, I don't know if they all have some kind of increased durability because of their exposure to cosmic radiation, but if they can survive the lightning, then so imo can Loki.
^ First time Reed got caught in a glancing blast he was struggling to stand, the following blast he got so heated he lost of control his body, hence he fell/stretched from the top of the building to the ground. Yet later Doom's blast have little effect on him? That's PIS.
What you described just sounded like PIS to me. Barring Thing, none of them have enough durability to take the kind of damage shown in all other instances.
Originally posted by Placidity
^ First time Reed got caught in a glancing blast he was struggling to stand, the following blast he got so heated he lost of control his body, hence he fell/stretched from the top of the building to the ground. Yet later Doom's blast have little effect on him? That's PIS.What you described just sounded like PIS to me. Barring Thing, none of them have enough durability to take the kind of damage shown in all other instances.
And afterwards he toke several of them without effect so what do we go by? One blast that incapacitated him or multiple that had no effect, both things can be determined because of the plot. In the one scenario it was required that Reed was knocked out in the other it was required that Reed wasn't, either way the lightning are inconsistent, and while have shown capable of killing a human outright haven't shown lasting results against superhuman opponents.
So the entire fight should just be neglected in your opinion because Doom killed a guy in a parking garage?
Originally posted by Utrigita
And afterwards he toke several of them without effect so what do we go by? One blast that incapacitated him or multiple that had no effect, both things can be determined because of the plot. In the one scenario it was required that Reed was knocked out in the other it was required that Reed wasn't, either way the lightning are inconsistent, and while have shown capable of killing a human outright haven't shown lasting results against superhuman opponents.So the entire fight should just be neglected in your opinion because Doom killed a guy in a parking garage?
No, I'm surprised you are so blind to your own bias and the fact you are trying to argue some sort of "reverse-PIS" logic. This case is a classic and transparent example of PIS. And it's not my "opinion", I base my argument on logic.
Here is the PIS rule from Comics Vs forum:
The "No PIS" RulePIS = Plot Induced Stupidity
At times, for the sake of the plot, characters that are immensely more powerful than their opponent will "job" to carry on the plot of the story, even though the characters powers and history would clearly show that they are more than capable of destroying their opponent. For this reason we have a No PIS Rule. This rule prohibits the use of such instances of PIS from being used as evidence in debates.
Let's analyse the situation.
Dr Doom shows his powers are devastating, on objects, a human, and to a lesser effect Reed, but still effectively disabled him.
Why was Reed affected less - (no hole in the chest)? It is safe to assume because of his elasticity. That's the reason, not simply because he has a "superhuman" title. You must always ask "why".
So we already have solidly established feats for Doom's blasts and his capabilities, and its effects on Reed.
Why then, in their final battle, does Reed develop such increased resistance to Doom's blast? or why did Doom's blast diminish so drastically? Why?
At times, for the sake of the plot, characters that are immensely more powerful than their opponent will "job" to carry on the plot of the story, even though the characters powers and history would clearly show that they are more than capable of destroying their opponent.
It's the same reason why we don't argue Spider-man is actually weak because he couldn't knock out Dr. Ock, and go back and invalidate all his previous feats or use it as a basis to claim it is inconsistent therefore inconclusive.
Originally posted by golem370
No the cube was still under shields protection in this thread because the idea in this thread is Loki was still trying to set up the avengers which I would say it was before he got hold of the cube.
Oh OK I just assumed because the OP stated Loki was in New York and Doom located the powersource, which I assumed was the cube.
Loki doesn't stand a chance in a closed environment fight. Doom can just absorb the electricity of the surrounding power grid and spot the illusion.
Didn't he spot invisible woman whilst she was invisible????
And Loki's little dagger may get through his armor but the guy survived a SuperNova! That armor didn't have fields nor inertial dampners, it was just armor. His eyes were exposed yet survived being microwaved at temps approaching the heat of the Sun like a trooper.
The Staff? was junk compared to his original staff from Thor. And the mind control technique won't work on Doom due to the armor.
Doom pours on the electricity the sec he sees Loki, and keeps pouring it on. Ironman beat Loki TWICE to a gunslinging contest. Doom is faster. Loki will probably die after a minute of straight burning. Doom will take his staff and use it to guide him to the cosmic cube where he once again obtains ultimate power.
Doom.
Loki showed some very good durability including being slammed into the ground by Thor at flight speed, Loki took that power blast by that experimental weapon, He took that pounding from Hulk and eventually got back up. He showed good strength feats like throwing that one on the table with one arm & He was to strong for Captain America
Originally posted by golem370
Loki showed some very good durability including being slammed into the ground by Thor at flight speed, Loki took that power blast by that experimental weapon, He took that pounding from Hulk and eventually got back up. He showed good strength feats like throwing that one on the table with one arm & He was to strong for Captain America
Loki was also strong enough to block blows from Thor, Thor who was strong enough to hurt Hulk, Thor who easily blocked IM's punch (who was at 400%). So using that analogy, we can actually assume that Loki is near Thor's strength range (though obviously still weaker). We can however assume that he's stronger than IM's normal strength.
Loki also took a full repulsor blast from IM and wasn't injured. Then you also have fighting ability. Loki looks like a very capable fighter, and he's a lot older than Doom.
Then we have his magic and illusions, and though I don't think Doom will easily fall for it, it's still an advantage that LOki can use.
I believe Doom to be more durable and stronger, but not by much. And Doom doesn't have the offense that Loki has.
So yeah, good match, but in the end I think Loki wins.
Originally posted by the ninjak
Ironman beat Loki TWICE to a gunslinging contest. Doom is faster. Loki will probably die after a minute of straight burning. Doom will take his staff and use it to guide him to the cosmic cube where he once again obtains ultimate power.Doom.
First time IM shot at Loki, Loki was battling Cap and wasn't aware of IM. He only beat Loki at "gunslinging" during their second encounter. Doesn't mean that he can beat him all the time.
Besides, so what. Loki survived IM's attacks easily. Loki has also survived Thor's lightning. What makes you think that Doom's lightning is stronger than IM's repulsors or Thor's lightning?
Originally posted by quanchi112
You know Loki is on another level than Doom.
Loki can manipulate minds.
And can unleash magical daggers that can penetrate even Thor's armor.
I originally thought Doom could take this due to his ability to survive an enclosed Super Nova. Yet it was brought to my attention that his survival was largely due to the Surfer.
In Thor, Loki was able to create myriad constructs of himself whilst attacking his target.
And in the same movie he shot forth infused daggers that penetrated and killed Frost Giants with ease.
He survived deep space and has advanced mystical telepathic abilities.
He wins this now in a landslide.
I'm surprised he didn't use the same thrown daggers against the Hulk. Or attempted to cloud his thoughts.
My only guess is that he was rattled by the Hulk's first assault that he resorted to simple communication with the beast. And he failed at that on epic levels, calling him the equivalent of a peasant existing amongst a god.....insane!
A poor showing for Loki unless his invisibility was useless against such a primitive beast. Which would make sense.
After all Loki focused on Banner primarily upon his arrival on the Helicarrier.
Originally posted by the ninjakLoki's arrogance is what left him open to the Hulk's assault.
Loki can manipulate minds.
And can unleash magical daggers that can penetrate even Thor's armor.
I originally thought Doom could take this due to his ability to survive an enclosed Super Nova. Yet it was brought to my attention that his survival was largely due to the Surfer.
In Thor, Loki was able to create myriad constructs of himself whilst attacking his target.
And in the same movie he shot forth infused daggers that penetrated and killed Frost Giants with ease.
He survived deep space and has advanced mystical telepathic abilities.
He wins this now in a landslide.I'm surprised he didn't use the same thrown daggers against the Hulk. Or attempted to cloud his thoughts.
My only guess is that he was rattled by the Hulk's first assault that he resorted to simple communication with the beast. And he failed at that on epic levels, calling him the equivalent of a peasant existing amongst a god.....insane!
A poor showing for Loki unless his invisibility was useless against such a primitive beast. Which would make sense.
After all Loki focused on Banner primarily upon his arrival on the Helicarrier.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Loki's arrogance is what left him open to the Hulk's assault.
True, though he didn't expect Banner to hurry back into New York after his machinations.
He did everything he could to avoid Banner from bringing his monster into the war.
He ensnared Banner and the rest of the team in his manipulations, cept Black Widow!
And did his best to ensure the end game of his invasion plan would come to fruition.
The heroes in the end were actually Black Widow, Hawk Eye and Fury.
The only people who in the end saw through the cloud of fog Loki created and acted accordingly.
The other heroes just did what they could to contain the threat.
Thor being the weakest of the team.
He should have been the one who caught the bomb and flew it into the portal.
I can't get over how weak the present day movies make Thor. He's the one who should be shocking the team with his abilities not Ironman!