axel_jovan
Looking around.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Sidious is far superior to Fisto in terms of Force Power, which as PoD teaches us is a major factor in lightsaber duels when one person is far stronger than the other.
True, though I’d like to point out that a greatly skilled saber duelist will be able to close the gap enough to overcome his more powerful opponent.
Case in point: Force-stripped Ulic fighting off an enraged Jedi (IIRC)
Fisto also had Windu actually fighting with him, and was still taken out in about 2 seconds.
Which indicates that Sidious is good enough with a saber to fight two extremely skilled swordsmen simultaneously, and even slain one of them pretty quickly.
Fear not, my body is impervious to fail.
That is good to know.
I take it all your …. limbs are equally durable.😖hifty:
No, I don't think so. Your issue is that we can interpret feats differently and this causes conflict. LeGenD for instance saw Malgus cutting through a hunk of flying metal as very impressive in terms of physical strength, while I did not.However, imo this is an essential part of debates. How else are we to determine just how impressive certain feats truly are?
That is why I talked about the danger of arguments build
solely on our subjective (and is some cases simply biased) views.
As you observed it may cause some distress in a debate.
It helps us to refine our understanding of characters and the feats themselves by examining them through discourse. Its also, well, just another part of a debate. Stop trying to take the debate out of the debate please.
I am not.
My issue here is that while feat wars can lead to definite answers in a versus battle, that is not
always the case.
If there is a sort of impasse between debaters, credible sources (read: canon material) come in handy. That includes quotes from SW sourcebooks, of course.
Logic is subjective though. 😐However much we pretend that we deal only in facts, this is impossible. Subjective sentiments make up debates. A debate is simply a conflict between two subjective opinions and interpretations of the characters.
Nice strawman btw. There are no debates that happen like that. We back up our arguments using evidence and logic, with certain idiotic exceptions.
Logic, which you just deemed subjective, and therefore unable to provide objective answers to the question which combatant is better…
However, if one may use objective evidence, why not do so?
Finally, you're aware that quotes on characters respective powerlevels are not available for all characters right? How do you suggest we handle threads where we can't pull out quotes to end them, and instead have to rely solely on 'subjective sentiments' like evidence and logic?
Certainly not in every murder case there are fingerprints or a smoking gun found at the crime scene, but you wouldn’t expect police detectives to discard such evidence, even if in other cases similar traces were lacking.
Similarly, even though certain characters are short of information from canon sources that describe their characteristics, that does not preclude that we should use canon information offered on other characters.
Also, I would like it if you could provide an answer to the question I submitted before, that is:
Why exactly should we discard canon statements, especially as they are much more credible than our own perceptions on SW universe?
Oh really, then why was your entire argument at the start of the thread that Yoda is equal to Sidious who is 'basically > any version of Bane, as per canon'?I'm arguing that thinking that a quote saying that Sidious is > Bane makes any thread with him or Yoda over is a ****ing stupid stance to take.
I don't believe I am. Here is the gist of your argument:
[b]'Isn't Sidious basically > any version of Bane, as per canon?
I would say that given how Yoda performed against a Sith Lord more powerful than Bane, he wins this fight.'
😬
As I have shown, that is complete bullshit. When you actually use all the evidence available to us, let me know. I have no problem with that, and I have invited you to use those quote if you want. The only thing I've taken offense to is the blindness you showed on the first page, and I've taken steps to educate you on why it is a faulty stance to take.[/B]
Oh… I see. But I have some issues with that.
On the one hand, you noticed that I said “per canon” which does not translate into “only canon quotes and not canon showings”, duh 😉
On the other hand, my use of the subsequent quote on Sidiosu as “the most powerful Sith Lord evah” might lead you to believe I am indeed blind to canon showings of respective characters. (for that my apologies).
On the …third hand, I have pointed to Gideon’s essay, saying that “more info” is available there, which of course includes feats, accomplishments and quotes concerning Sidious.
On the…..em…finally, I have made my stance pretty clear up until this point, even though my initial response might be a bit nebulous.
Therefore, as you well know that I do not believe only quotes are the way to go, your attempt to “educate” me, though commendable, is not needed.
I don't doubt that you doubt it. However, I doubt that you'd be able to back up that doubt in a way that would cast doubt on my doubt in the credibility of those quotes.
I doubt it is me who has to cast doubt on your doubt, for undoubtedly your doubt is doubtful.