Originally posted by Glorificus
Theoretically, it should be Exitar, since:Celestrial > Cyttorak.
Cyttorak > Juggernaut.
But feat-wise, I'm not sure it's that clear-cut.
There is absolutely no way to say a Celestial is > Cyttorak, unless Cyttorak has been bested by one before or called weaker than one.
Cyttorak's the same guy who has trapped Galactus, along with Sorcerer Supreme Strange in his realm.
Dr. Strange at his best has been shown to be completely powerless against Cyttorak a handful of times before.
Cyttorak's relation to a Celestial in power, is a big question mark.
Originally posted by CosmicComet
There is absolutely no way to say a Celestial is > Cyttorak, unless Cyttorak has been bested by one before or called weaker than one.Cyttorak's the same guy who has trapped Galactus, along with Sorcerer Supreme Strange in his realm.
Dr. Strange at his best has been shown to be completely powerless against Cyttorak a handful of times before.
Cyttorak's relation to a Celestial in power, is a big question mark.
Dr. Strange is nothing to a Celestial, so I'm not sure what point you're making there. Saying that since Strange is powerless against Cyttorak, implies anything about a Celestial makes no sense.
Odin, with the Destroyer Armor, Odinsword, and all the power of all Asgardians was shown to be basically powerless against Celestials.
Cyttorak's power level has always been kind of vague to me, but I've seen nothing to suggest he's anything more than an elder god, a tier above odin, and probably equal to the likes of rune king thor (MAYBE). If he is an elder god, he's nothing to a celestial.
Comparing their feats, Celestials have MUCH higher end feats than Cyttorak, while you can argue that absence of evidence of high end feats from Cyttorak doesn't necessarily prove he ISN'T more powerful than we've seen him, you also can't assume he could match celestial feats until we see otherwise.
Originally posted by CosmicComet
You can't do the math with variables that are completely unknown.
at it's highest on-panel, as evidenced by HOTM, it is enough to flatten a dimension.
at its lowest on-panel, Savage Hulk got choked out by a snake.
Celestials ... a little higher up than that.
Unless you're suggesting that Hulk + Celestial Tech > Celestial?
Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
Dr. Strange is nothing to a Celestial, so I'm not sure what point you're making there. Saying that since Strange is powerless against Cyttorak, implies anything about a Celestial makes no sense.Odin, with the Destroyer Armor, Odinsword, and all the power of all Asgardians was shown to be basically powerless against Celestials.
Cyttorak's power level has always been kind of vague to me, but I've seen nothing to suggest he's anything more than an elder god, a tier above odin, and probably equal to the likes of rune king thor (MAYBE). If he is an elder god, he's nothing to a celestial.
Comparing their feats, Celestials have MUCH higher end feats than Cyttorak, while you can argue that absence of evidence of high end feats from Cyttorak doesn't necessarily prove he ISN'T more powerful than we've seen him, you also can't assume he could match celestial feats until we see otherwise.
Dr. Strange at Sorcerer Supreme level dealt in power scales FAR above Celestials.
Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
Dr. Strange is nothing to a Celestial, so I'm not sure what point you're making there. Saying that since Strange is powerless against Cyttorak, implies anything about a Celestial makes no sense.Odin, with the Destroyer Armor, Odinsword, and all the power of all Asgardians was shown to be basically powerless against Celestials.
Cyttorak's power level has always been kind of vague to me, but I've seen nothing to suggest he's anything more than an elder god, a tier above odin, and probably equal to the likes of rune king thor (MAYBE). If he is an elder god, he's nothing to a celestial.
Comparing their feats, Celestials have MUCH higher end feats than Cyttorak, while you can argue that absence of evidence of high end feats from Cyttorak doesn't necessarily prove he ISN'T more powerful than we've seen him, you also can't assume he could match celestial feats until we see otherwise.
Well, how can one be so wrong in just 1 post.Stating things he has no idea about , so clueless.
For one you have one of the mightiest celestials having nightmares about Elder God and you are assuming Celestial > Elder God.
Then you have Cyttorak who The Vishanti are very weary of and they were shown to be cappable of destroying hundreds of universes as collateral damage in a fight and also not paying any respect to LT.And then there is his avatar The Juggernaut who during his classic period was able to beat Classic Nightmare in his own realm and then you are saying Odin is some kind of a big deal and just a tier below Elder Gods.
And then there is Chthon who may or may not have been responsible for Wanda's feats but its a fact that the Chaos Wave that she was warping the omniverse with has a link to Chthon since Chaos Magic is Chthon's magic.Not to mention that Chthon was used in the same sentence with God(the shadow that cripples beneath God's feet ~~ and he is the only power significant enough to be compared to God)
In fact Marvel's mystics are the beings of the highest order in Marvel but on this board Elder Gods are assumed to be some Skyfather+ beings while in fact they make all cosmics look like germs.For instance CW Herc was amped to multiversal levels by Gaea(iirc, can't remember if she amped him or he had that inner power in himself but its a fact that he is her grandson so his power originated from her) instantly making him multi-eternity level.Thats how powerful Elder Gods are.
Originally posted by Sabro
Well, how can one be so wrong in just 1 post.Stating things he has no idea about , so clueless.For one you have one of the mightiest celestials having nightmares about Elder God and you are assuming Celestial > Elder God.
Then you have Cyttorak who The Vishanti are very weary of and they were shown to be cappable of destroying hundreds of universes as collateral damage in a fight and also not paying any respect to LT.And then there is his avatar The Juggernaut who during his classic period was able to beat Classic Nightmare in his own realm and then you are saying Odin is some kind of a big deal and just a tier below Elder Gods.
Originally posted by Sabro
And then there is Chthon who may or may not have been responsible for Wanda's feats but its a fact that the Chaos Wave that she was warping the omniverse with has a link to Chthon since Chaos Magic is Chthon's magic.Not to mention that Chthon was used in the same sentence with God(the shadow that cripples beneath God's feet ~~ and he is the only power significant enough to be compared to God)
Originally posted by Sabro
In fact Marvel's mystics are the beings of the highest order in Marvel but on this board Elder Gods are assumed to be some Skyfather+ beings while in fact they make all cosmics look like germs.For instance CW Herc was amped to multiversal levels by Gaea(iirc, can't remember if she amped him or he had that inner power in himself but its a fact that he is her grandson so his power originated from her) instantly making him multi-eternity level.Thats how powerful Elder Gods are.
Originally posted by Sabro
Well, how can one be so wrong in just 1 post.Stating things he has no idea about , so clueless.For one you have one of the mightiest celestials having nightmares about Elder God and you are assuming Celestial > Elder God.
Then you have Cyttorak who The Vishanti are very weary of and they were shown to be cappable of destroying hundreds of universes as collateral damage in a fight and also not paying any respect to LT.And then there is his avatar The Juggernaut who during his classic period was able to beat Classic Nightmare in his own realm and then you are saying Odin is some kind of a big deal and just a tier below Elder Gods.
And then there is Chthon who may or may not have been responsible for Wanda's feats but its a fact that the Chaos Wave that she was warping the omniverse with has a link to Chthon since Chaos Magic is Chthon's magic.Not to mention that Chthon was used in the same sentence with God(the shadow that cripples beneath God's feet ~~ and he is the only power significant enough to be compared to God)
In fact Marvel's mystics are the beings of the highest order in Marvel but on this board Elder Gods are assumed to be some Skyfather+ beings while in fact they make all cosmics look like germs.For instance CW Herc was amped to multiversal levels by Gaea(iirc, can't remember if she amped him or he had that inner power in himself but its a fact that he is her grandson so his power originated from her) instantly making him multi-eternity level.Thats how powerful Elder Gods are.
Clearly you're quite clueless as to the Marvel hierarchy of power. You're basing Elder gods being > Celestials because of a dream? Really? I've had nightmares my teddy bear was going to kill me when I was a kid.
If Elder gods are > Celestials, why is it that when the Celestials threatened to cut the gods off from Earth's by closing off their dimensions on them, did Gaea (an elder goddess) create the young gods to prove to the Celestials humanity's worth or whatever? Why didn't she just use her supposed superior power to drive them off?
(oh and it wouldn't have been just her, all the gods and goddesses of earth combined couldn't beat the fourth host. And the fourth host is less powerful than exitar.)
Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
Clearly you're quite clueless as to the Marvel hierarchy of power. You're basing Elder gods being > Celestials because of a dream? Really? I've had nightmares my teddy bear was going to kill me when I was a kid.If Elder gods are > Celestials, why is it that when the Celestials threatened to cut the gods off from Earth's by closing off their dimensions on them, did Gaea (an elder goddess) create the young gods to prove to the Celestials humanity's worth or whatever? Why didn't she just use her supposed superior power to drive them off?
(oh and it wouldn't have been just her, all the gods and goddesses of earth combined couldn't beat the fourth host. And the fourth host is less powerful than exitar.)
Where were Celestials when Chaos King was devouring the multiverse. Gaea had to step in, remember.
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
IIRC , then Set was banished by the power of a simple exorcism spell cast by Strange , which was being massively boosted by a cosmic cube(that was being used by Strange , Spiderman,Scarlet Witch etc.) . At the end of the stroy , the cube was completely drained of power .So , based upon that arc(which took place in MAINSTREAM 616) , its safe to say a high level elder god like Set is a little above a CCU . Sufficiently above that it can't destroy him , but not above enough that its power can't be used to banish him .
This was proven later when Strange 'destroyed' his artifacts and the exorcism spell that banished Set was weakened.
Originally posted by zopzop
Not for anything, but it wasn't a "simple exorcism" spell. If was a spell invoking his artifacts and being backed by the power of a Cosmic Cube with willpower assist from 3 other heroes.This was proven later when Strange 'destroyed' his artifacts and the exorcism spell that banished Set was weakened.
I saw your respect thread , and I'll admit that it was not a "simple exorcism spell" as I originally thought , but "an ancient ritual of exorcism" and in Strange's own words "a spell that will forever exorcise the mind of Set from this plane of reality" .
In the scans that you posted , apart from the cosmic cube (and that ancient exorcism spell) , no other artifact seems to seems to have been used .
So , my original statement isn't entirely wrong , as Set is still sufficiently above a CCU , such that it can't destroy him(although it can destroy the merged Serpent Crown , when in possession of 3 or more persons) : http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/202/marvelteamupannual19823.jpg/
However , when used in conjunction with high level exorcism magic , the CCU can (permanently?) banish Set from our reality , but at the cost of getting completely drained of power :
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/820/marvelteamupannual19823.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/842/marvelteamupannual19824.jpg/
Credits for the scans go to you , of course .
Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
For the record, tiamut is scared of the elder gods. on panel.
Tiamut was in a dreaming/sleeping state . Basically he was vulnerable . In fact Uncanny X-Men #1-3 has shown that in his dreaming state , he is vulnerable enough for a guy like Mr Sinister to take over his body .
Basically speaking , anyone else in his position would have "moaned and shuddered " as well .
