Originally posted by DTM
Er, first time I heard that. Not saying its not true here on this forum, if so I had no idea, but I always took these as unless the thread mod stated otherwise, characters from different universes wouldnt know anything about one another.
I have never heard that rule either. Seems like some new bull shyte. Especially since I see many times people say the exact opposite.
Originally posted by Stoic
When I say face mask, I don't mean helmet. Cain once had a redundancy or fall back plan in the form of a face mask made of the same material as his helmet, which he briefly wore beneath the helmet.
i know the mask you're talking about. i was never clear what it was made of though. didn't appear to be the saem as the helmet though so if she can get the helmet off seems the mask wouldn't be any more difficult.
and you're talking about his force field that once showed to slow thor's hammer. that is really not the norm. can you name anything else that the field ever slowed down? if not, i don't see it being a very sound argument as that ability appears more of a one-time deal. be like saying he blasts energy globes at her or casts the crimson bands on her....
Originally posted by leonidasand you're talking about his force field that once showed to slow thor's hammer. that is really not the norm.
Even if he has a forcefield, why would it prevent Maxima from using her TK that has pulled continental plates together? Maxima has affected things before with her TK on the other side of a forcefield.
Originally posted by NewjakJuggernaut's helmet doesn't strike me as being that easy to pry off. I'm willing to look at examples of telekinesis on Maxima's level prying it off though. I don't know why people are making Juggernaut out to be some sort of glass cannon. That couldn't be further from the truth.
That Maxima will probably TK his helmet(s) off easily and TP him to ko.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
With all this talk revolving around Juggernaut's forcefield, I wonder how people consider him when said forcefield isn't explicitly in action.
tbh i've always found juggs a little confusing as regards his powerset. without the field (and i'm referencing the one as seen in thor) i still see him as uber durable, but he can be struck physically and so his helmet becomes a vulnerability if someone is strong enough to attack it and follow it up with high level tp. thor seemed ready to ko him as well without his field. do you think that was pis or do you think thor cancelled more than just his field?
Originally posted by leonidasAs far as I know, the only instance where Juggernaut's forcefield was directly responsible for his unstoppability/invincibility was that scene in Thor. So I don't feel comfortable pegging every other appearance where we don't see his invisible forcefield at work as being a situation where his forcefield is inexplicably turned off. I mean... it's an invisible forcefield (which itself is a simple physical manifestation of unstoppability/invincibility).
tbh i've always found juggs a little confusing as regards his powerset. without the field (and i'm referencing the one as seen in thor) i still see him as uber durable, but he can be struck physically and so his helmet becomes a vulnerability if someone is strong enough to attack it and follow it up with high level tp. thor seemed ready to ko him as well without his field. do you think that was pis or do you think thor cancelled more than just his field?
Juggernaut is virtually unstoppable/invincible with or without his forcefield. He's not unbeatable. And I agree once his helmet comes off, psychics have his number. But I just don't see his helmet coming off easily at all. And this is coming from someone who has seen three different versions of Hulk do it: enraged Savage Hulk, enraged Professor Hulk and War Hulk.
It's been visibly drawn several times, and when it hasn't been shown or stated, that's usually when the helmet's come off. Like when he fought the X-Men and Colossus simply ripped it to shreds instead of knocking it off.
And in that story, his durability was basically all in his forcefield. When Thor dropped it, he still had some, but it wasn't anywhere near as strong. That's not really how it works though, as his force field is more about keeping things from touching him. He's plenty durable on his own.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0Nimrod knocked it off pretty casually, the X-Men have obviously gotten it off a couple of times.
Juggernaut's helmet doesn't strike me as being that easy to pry off. I'm willing to look at examples of telekinesis on Maxima's level prying it off though. I don't know why people are making Juggernaut out to be some sort of glass cannon. That couldn't be further from the truth.
I'm not saying it is easy but it has come off enough that it's obviously not as tough as one would think.
As for his FF being the source of his durability, I believe that comic is pretty much the only reference to it. Even recently depowered Juggs was able to take a beating from Thor in Thunderbolts much in the same vein as what he did when Thor dropped his FF.
I think normal powered Juggs is slightly more invulnerable than Depowered Juggs.
So personally think it was a once off writer either missing the point or Thor took more power away then just his FF.
Where classic Juggernaut is concerned...
...And those were just some instances I could think of off the top of my head.
So yeah, sans force-field I don't see Maxima having any issues at all removing the helmet (either physically or via TK), and proceeding to mind-phuck Juggy.
^ well, sersi to molecule man is a rather large jump in power..... molecule man is much more powerful than cyttorak and so i'd think molecule man really wouldn't care about jugg's shield or power or anything else.
but yeah, i certainly don't see sersi affecting juggs in any way at all with her transmutation powers.
