TSA (The Sith Apprentice AKA Starkiller AKAGalen Marick) Experiement

Originally posted by Major Valerian
1. Not sure. Could go either way.
2. Win.
3. Lose.
4. Lose.
5. Win.
6. Win.
7. Lose.
8. Not sure.
9. Win.
10. Win.
11. Not sure.
12. Win.
13. Win.
14. Win.
15. Win.
16. Win.
17. Lose. Btw, 'Prime Luke', as you put it, = FP Anakin.
18. Lose.
19. Lose.
20. Win.

Bonus round: Not sure.

Yeah, I mean the first round. It's just that I'm not sure how truly skilled TSA is in terms of lightsaber combat. He's very good, surely, but just how much? Who does he compare with?

In his biography in the first game it says that his lightsaber skills are 'near perfect.' he practices with Proxy a shitton and does fight people with lightsabers quite a bit like Shaak Ti and Vader. He beat Vader with lightsabers and that Maul clone wasn't able to beat Vader in the comics.

Originally posted by Nephthys
In his biography in the first game it says that his lightsaber skills are 'near perfect.' he practices with Proxy a shitton and does fight people with lightsabers quite a bit like Shaak Ti and Vader. He beat Vader with lightsabers and that Maul clone wasn't able to beat Vader in the comics.

He beat Vader in a lightsaber duel? When?

In the books. He puts Vader on his ass with his lightsaber by hitting him 3 times in quick succession then he picks him up with TK and hurls things at him until he tosses a generator that explodes and rips Vaders armor off.

Then I'll change my round 1 answer from 'Not sure' to 'Win'.

Originally posted by Nephthys
and probably about equal in terms of skill (the words 'near perfect' spring to mind).

'Prime Luke', as you put it, = FP Anakin

Ah I forgot about thui. Would crab armour give him same kind of advantage that orbalisks give bane?

Nice sig Valerian Steel.

I don't think you should count Zannah out. I mean, there are 2 people to be described as masters of Soresu: Zannah and Kenobi. Bane could overpower her with Djem So and massive stregnth and size, but I don't think Starkiller could. And her sorcery could give him a run for his money, because his strength of will is what matters there, not his force power. And has he encountered sorcery? People who haven't seem to tend to have worse reeactions than people expecting it (I mean, Bane knew about it, how it worked, and how to counter it, and he still screamed in terror and agony)

Originally posted by Arhael
No way. If we talk about power, then yes but not combat.
The key difference is in personality. Anakin was too emotional to become perfect Jedi and there is too much good in him to become perfect Sith either. RotS Anakin is pretty much FP Anakin from Jedi perspective. Yes, he rarely uses Force offensively during combat and prefers lightsaber but same is true for Luke. While Anakin as Jedi gets extra boost of power from using anger, Luke has superior self-control, precision and clarity during combat.
Also, in my opinion Luke is more talented.

Yeah, I'm talking about power and force potential, not combat skills.

Originally posted by Darth Ray Park
Nice sig Valerian Steel.

Thanks, made it myself.

Originally posted by Pwned
I don't think you should count Zannah out. I mean, there are 2 people to be described as masters of Soresu: Zannah and Kenobi. Bane could overpower her with Djem So and massive stregnth and size, but I don't think Starkiller could. And her sorcery could give him a run for his money, because his strength of will is what matters there, not his force power. And has he encountered sorcery? People who haven't seem to tend to have worse reeactions than people expecting it (I mean, Bane knew about it, how it worked, and how to counter it, and he still screamed in terror and agony)

Starkiller can toss TIE fighters around with his hands, so he's pretty strong as well. TBH, Speed is the only aspect where Starkiller is noticably un-exceptional.

Like I said, force power doesn't matter if you are being mind-raped.

Though I admit, if he starts out with any offensive assault and Zannah can't beat him to the punch with some sorcery shenanigans, then he wins. Im just saying, Zannah shouldn't be counted out that easily.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Starkiller can toss TIE fighters around with his hands, so he's pretty strong as well.

Like I said, force power doesn't matter if you are being mind-raped.

Originally posted by Arhael
If you talk about that example of tossing TIE fighter, while in air himself, then it does not demonstrate strength whatsoever but Force alone. Also, it was very unrealistic portrayal.

It doesn't matter if it's realistic or not, it happened. It's canon. And he never said it demonstrated strength.

Originally posted by Major Valerian
It doesn't matter if it's realistic or not, it happened. It's canon. And he never said it demonstrated strength.

Starkiller can toss TIE fighters around with his hands, so he's pretty strong as well.

Let me explain unrealistic side of it. He was in air, so his feet were not grounded, realistically by trying to pull heavier object you get pulled yourself.
Another thing is that he started rotating ship around himself and quite fast. In order to perform this kind of thing his levitation capabilities would need to rival Superman or at least Wonder Woman. However, Jedi's levitation skills are normally barely enough to slow their fall and in extremely rare cases Force users could actually fly. This feat is impossible for no matter how immensely powerful Force user is.

See it for yourself. 3:00
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6hxGGMbta8

It can't be counted as cannon. This is part of game mechanics happening during gameplay. To make it cannon it would need have at least some significance in the game story line or alternatively described in a book.

That's a cutscene... Not gameplay. It's canon.

Originally posted by ares834
That's a cutscene... Not gameplay. It's canon.

Originally posted by ares834
That's a cutscene... Not gameplay. It's canon.

It is portrayal of the Force from game perspective. Moreover, this particular example doesn't have any significance in the story. A lot of things are exaggerated in the game, it doesn't make sense to take every single detail for granted.

For example, redirecting Star Destroyer had purpose in the story and it was portrayed in the book, it is cannon. Marek defeated Vader, it is also cannon. But what that feat does for the storyline? Nothing. It was totally pointless and needless. It's very poor and misleading portrayal from designers.

Originally posted by Arhael
But do you agree that from physics and known Force capabilities it makes no sense whatsoever?
Ship weighted several tons and rotation effect was making it much heavier. Jedi have very limited levitation, they barely can slow themselves down or slightly redirect their fall, while body weights only around 80kg. To hold themselves in one place, while being pulled by multiple tones objects, is impossible.

It is portrayal of the Force from game perspective. Moreover, this particular example doesn't have any significance in the story. A lot of things are exaggerated in the game, it doesn't make sense to take every single detail for granted.

For example, redirecting Star Destroyer had purpose in the story and it was portrayed in the book, it is cannon. Marek defeated Vader, it is also cannon. But what that feat does for the storyline? Nothing. It was totally pointless and needless. It's very poor and misleading portrayal from designers.

While you are correct by saying that from a physics perspective it makes no sense, when the feat is seen in a cut-scene, it's canon. It doesn't really matter if it makes sense or not, or if it's pointless and needless. Blame Lucas.

Originally posted by Major Valerian
While you are correct by saying that from a physics perspective it makes no sense, when the feat is seen in a cut-scene, it's canon. It doesn't really matter if it makes sense or not. Blame Lucas.

It's like Force drain in games - colorful and visible red lightning. While it is cannon power, in actual books the process is invisible to the eye.

Also, it is important how feats affect storyline. For example, Marek and Vader during fight even in cut-scenes displayed exaggerated feats, while in the book fight is nowhere nearly as impressive and colorful but still it is cannon that they fought and Marek prevailed. But in this case this feat doesn't change story in any way. My opinion is that events from games (especially TFU known for its Force unrealistic exaggeration) must be accepted as cannon only if they affect/make the actual story.

Originally posted by Arhael
Well, Lucas does not keep detail for every single thing, so we can blame game designers/writers. And my point is that it is just different portrayal of the Force. While I say it is unrealistic, I don't discard it. But should it be described in a book, it would be portrayed differently and realistically.

It's like Force drain in games - colorful and visible red lightning. While it is cannon power, in actual books the process is invisible to the eye.

Also, it is important how feats affect storyline. For example, Marek and Vader during fight even in cut-scenes displayed exaggerated feats, while in the book fight is nowhere nearly as impressive and colorful but still it is cannon that they fought and Marek prevailed. But in this case this feat doesn't change story in any way. My opinion is that events from games (especially TFU known for its Force unrealistic exaggeration) must be accepted as cannon only if they affect/make the actual story.

I mostly agree, but there is something else.

The whole point of TFU was to demonstrate how extremely powerful Starkiller is. The game is so not really Force exaggerated; it's purpose is to present this new, all-powerful character into the SW universe. The game looks unrealistic because of how powerful the apprentice is. It was the first time we see and play as someone like him. We knew how powerful Sidious is, but we never get to see his power and combat prowess first hand. Only in the movies, and it is not nearly the same as it is in a videogame. When we play the apprentice in TFU, we get to see how powerful the most powerful characters in the SW universe are supposed to be. I think that is why the game was made that way.

1. L
2. W
3. L
4. W
5. L
6. W
7. L
8. W
9. W
10. W
11. W
12. W
13. L
14. W
15. W
16. W
17. L
18. L
19. L
20. W

IMHO