TSA (The Sith Apprentice AKA Starkiller AKAGalen Marick) Experiement

Started by Nephthys3 pages

Originally posted by Arhael
He did talk about physical strength, although, amplified by the Force.

Let me explain unrealistic side of it. He was in air, so his feet were not grounded, realistically by trying to pull heavier object you get pulled yourself.
Another thing is that he started rotating ship around himself and quite fast. In order to perform this kind of thing his levitation capabilities would need to rival Superman or at least Wonder Woman. However, Jedi's levitation skills are normally barely enough to slow their fall and in extremely rare cases Force users could actually fly. This feat is impossible for no matter how immensely powerful Force user is.

See it for yourself. 3:00
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6hxGGMbta8

It can't be counted as cannon. This is part of game mechanics happening during gameplay. To make it cannon it would need have at least some significance in the game story line or alternatively described in a book.

O RLY?

You know that Marek can, in fact, levitate himself quite easily? And does so frequently throughout the games and novels? Hell, he does it every time he uses Force Repulse. I don't know why you think this would be beyond him, Sidious too can levitate, as can Count Dooku. It's an ability known as Force Flight. The Dark Jedi Maw levitated himself constantly after his legs were severed. Kaox Krul once fought a Jedi while they levitated themselves over a lake, for hours. Luke could do it, as could others such as Jerec, Darth Thanaton and Revan. Theres an entire technique were one would mediate whilst levitating.

So impossible is putting it a bit strongly. 😐

As it is, we can see his body physically strain to move it. If he was just using the Force, this would not be the case.

And it's a scripted event, meaning that it is impossible for the game to continue without it occuring, making it very firmly canon.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Kaox Krul
Oh look, an athletic, aggressive young man with shaven dark hair. How original.

In all honesty, that was one of the worst star wars stories I have ever read.

Originally posted by Major Valerian
I mostly agree, but there is something else.

The whole point of TFU was to demonstrate how extremely powerful Starkiller is. The game is so not really Force exaggerated; it's purpose is to present this new, all-powerful character into the SW universe. The game looks unrealistic because of how powerful the apprentice is. It was the first time we see and play as someone like him. We knew how powerful Sidious is, but we never get to see his power and combat prowess first hand. Only in the movies, and it is not nearly the same as it is in a videogame. When we play the apprentice in TFU, we get to see how powerful the most powerful characters in the SW universe are supposed to be. I think that is why the game was made that way.


I agree that he is extraordinarily powerful and that no one but Sidious could handle him with Force alone, although, he got handled himself first. Still it is too exaggerated. Sidious performance in film is the "first hand". And we have DE visuals, where he was able to perform unique Force abilities, yet, in actual combat he relied mostly on lightsaber and mind domination.

To farther prove exaggeration of TFU let me make comparison between actual videos of TOR and TFU.

Satele Shan
Satel Shan arguably the most powerful Jedi of TOR time. First I was skeptical about her toppling a tree, while in lightsaber struggle, yet, later I recalled Dooku doing exact same thing with metal structure in AotC in fight with Yoda. Next thing is her absorbing lightsaber. Seems unrealistic but the same thing was done by Keiran Halkion. Then that stone shattering Force push - unrealistic and exaggerated but in fact she got that power from absorbing lightsaber energy. Keiran Halkion was unable to use TK at all as his natural Force limitation, yet, after absorbing lightsaber he defeated his opponent with TK alone. Moreover, that stone shattering was confirmed by Deceived book.

Now lets see Marek video.
Force choked simultaneously around 30 troopers. First of all it's unrealistic for Force users to spread their focus THAT wide. And what makes it even more unrealistic is that all those troopers were shooting at him. Deflecting multiple blaster bolts from multiple sides takes full concentration. Even the most powerful users can't afford to make a single Force push, yet, he comfortably executed Force pushes and not only able to find every single trooper in the Force but to manage to perform complicated version of TK - Force choke on every single one of them, not to mention the need to keep attention on all blaster bolts flying at him. Luke and Mara couldn't defeat a single Droideka and couldn't even afford for one to deflect bolts, while other uses TK and had to approach the matter with various more clever tactics.
And finally that Force wave incinerating troopers. When TK ever was burning someone into ashes? While Bane could do something like that, his attack was capable to shattering bones and liquefying flesh but this example incinerated armor, which is more durable, than bones. Also, how about terrace and trees? Why nothing apart from troopers got incinerated?
He is portrayed like a Force god. Yet, there are Force users like Revan, Luke, Bane a and other immensely powerful characters who performed in their peak time far less effectively against far less amount of troopers.

O RLY?

You know that Marek can, in fact, levitate himself quite easily? And does so frequently throughout the games and novels? Hell, he does it every time he uses Force Repulse. I don't know why you think this would be beyond him, Sidious too can levitate, as can Count Dooku. It's an ability known as Force Flight. The Dark Jedi Maw levitated himself constantly after his legs were severed. Kaox Krul once fought a Jedi while they levitated themselves over a lake, for hours. Luke could do it, as could others such as Jerec, Darth Thanaton and Revan. Theres an entire technique were one would mediate whilst levitating.

So impossible is putting it a bit strongly.

As it is, we can see his body physically strain to move it. If he was just using the Force, this would not be the case.

Did I deny Force flight? I said "in extremely rare cases Force users could actually fly". Ones again, in this example he was rotating ship around him, which essentially means that multiple ton weight was pulling him sideways. But levitation takes a lot of strain. I can give you examples of powerful Jedi that couldn't slow their fall or levitated by forming sort of Force pillows under their legs. If his levitation was strong enough to resist multiple ton weight, then logically he should be able to effortlessly fly like Superman. Yes, it is impossible. We can't assume that his levitation strength was multiple tones stronger, than other Force users' to ever live.

And it's a scripted event, meaning that it is impossible for the game to continue without it occuring, making it very firmly canon.
Firmly cannon? Really?
Here is a scripted event (4:10 - 4:32) from TFU. Marek topples three multiple ton weight pillars on helpless Vader but somehow he doesn't get squashed. Then Marek slash his lightsaber right through his stomach, yet he is not cut in half. Then slash leg, which for some reason pushes Vader two meters away instead of chopping it off. And finally does head strike, which instead of cutting through it, reaps it off. Somehow not a single part of body gets chopped off. Is Vader's armor made from Beskar or something equally durable to tank multiple ton pillar strikes and lightsaber? But we all know it isn't. Is it, also, firmly cannon? Maybe you gonna give a quote from novelization, where exactly same thing happened? Well, in fact it didn't happen in the book.

What can be accepted as firmly cannon are actual facts that things happened like Marek moved star destroyer, Marek defeated Vader and put up great fight against Sidious but not it's portrayal. Because game mechanics and details can be portrayed differently by various sources. The main goal of game designers is to make things look impressive but not necessarily in accord with the way things work in actual books.

No. Just no. It's canon. Deal with it. If we begin to entertain and use the "foggy window" clause then this whole forum becomes useless and we might as well argue solely in the movie vs forum.

Originally posted by Arhael
Did I deny Force flight? I said "in extremely rare cases Force users could actually fly". Ones again, in this example he was rotating ship around him, which essentially means that multiple ton weight was pulling him sideways. But levitation takes a lot of strain. I can give you examples of powerful Jedi that couldn't slow their fall or levitated by forming sort of Force pillows under their legs. If his levitation was strong enough to resist multiple ton weight, then logically he should be able to effortlessly fly like Superman. Yes, it is impossible. We can't assume that his levitation strength was multiple tones stronger, than other Force users' to ever live.

Yes, its impossible. Because its not like Marek can Force Push hundreds-if not thousands- of tons of metal so hard that it forms a dark cloud over the landscape.

When it comes to Galen Marek 'impossible' is not a word we are at liberty to use. 😬

Originally posted by Arhael
Firmly cannon? Really?
Here is a scripted event (4:10 - 4:32) from TFU. Marek topples three multiple ton weight pillars on helpless Vader but somehow he doesn't get squashed. Then Marek slash his lightsaber right through his stomach, yet he is not cut in half. Then slash leg, which for some reason pushes Vader two meters away instead of chopping it off. And finally does head strike, which instead of cutting through it, reaps it off. Somehow not a single part of body gets chopped off. Is Vader's armor made from Beskar or something equally durable to tank multiple ton pillar strikes and lightsaber? But we all know it isn't. Is it, also, firmly cannon? Maybe you gonna give a quote from novelization, where exactly same thing happened? Well, in fact it didn't happen in the book.

What can be accepted as firmly cannon are actual facts that things happened like Marek moved star destroyer, Marek defeated Vader and put up great fight against Sidious but not it's portrayal. Because game mechanics and details can be portrayed differently by various sources. The main goal of game designers is to make things look impressive but not necessarily in accord with the way things work in actual books.

Yes, Vader's armor is made of materials as durable as Beskar. Durasteel and Cortosis iirc, as well as being embued with Sith Sorcery. Remember when Luke struck Vader with his lightsaber in ESB and all that happened was some sparks shot out? Vader's armor is incredibly durable. And why yes, as it happens in the novel Marek hits him multiple times with his lightsaber without cutting off his limbs, and then explodes a generator in his face, and again Vader survives with only parts of his armor blown off.

Maybe you should actually check your facts before dismissing things out of hand. It'll save you from being as blatantly wrong as you were here, and stop you from looking foolish. As you did here. 🙂

Sure we can. Beat Prime Luke in a Force Fight? Impossibru!!!!

Destroy the entire galaxy with the Force at once? Impossibrui!!!!

Kill Abeloth using only the Force? Impossibru!!!!

Nah, have Kota give him an encouraging speech and he'll be pulling those off laughing.

Fine. I will prove one impossibility.

He can NEVER make the bathroom tiles warm in the morning. NEVER!

And he can never find his keys!!!! NEVER!!!!!

And that makes TWO! Ha! Take that!

I give up. You just took it too far.

The usage of memes pleases me..... You have redeemed yourself in my eyes, Neph.

It might be exaggerated; now that I saw those videos I realize that ... BUT ... It's still canon 😬

Yes, its impossible. Because its not like Marek can Force Push hundreds-if not thousands- of tons of metal so hard that it forms a dark cloud over the landscape.

When it comes to Galen Marek 'impossible' is not a word we are at liberty to use. 😬


There is a reason why in SW no one can fly like Superman. There is a reason why even The Ones used wings in order to fly. And the reason is that levitation is very limited no matter what feats character is capable off. If Marek's levitation can hold him in one place, while pulled by multiple tons, why he can't just fly around?

Yes, Vader's armor is made of materials as durable as Beskar. Durasteel and Cortosis iirc, as well as being embued with Sith Sorcery. Remember when Luke struck Vader with his lightsaber in ESB and all that happened was some sparks shot out? Vader's armor is incredibly durable. And why yes, as it happens in the novel Marek hits him multiple times with his lightsaber without cutting off his limbs, and then explodes a generator in his face, and again Vader survives with only parts of his armor blown off.
No, Vader's armor is nowhere near as durable as Beskar. Otherwise, Luke wouldn't chop his arm off. In fact his arm was ones chopped off even by metal blade. And on Bespin, at least the way it looked to me, Vader blocked Luke's strike, so it only slightly touched his arm. And where that information about Cortosis is coming from? Wookieepedia didn't mention anything about Cortosis in his armor. Moreover, Cortosis causes lightsaber to short out, which never happened with lightsabers of Luke, Marek or any others striking Vader's armor. Also, Sith Sorcery was increasing his strength and vitality, not durability. In any case there are enough examples showing that lightsaber cuts through his armor. Most notable one is Vader piercing himself to kill resurrected Maul behind him.

Maybe you should actually check your facts before dismissing things out of hand. It'll save you from being as blatantly wrong as you were here, and stop you from looking foolish. As you did here. 🙂
Well, I can't check all the fact. I did not read TFU myself. That's the idea of debates that one person enlightens another. So no need to speak about foolishness.
Better answer, please, next questions, if you read the book.
Did Marek topple on Vader those three pillars?
Did Marek hit him in his leg that Vader staggered two meters away?
Also, there is no generator blowing into Vader's face in the game.
You said cut-scenes are firmly cannon. But how can they be firmly cannon, if they are not consistent with the other source?

I am sorry but I can't accept every foolish game design as firmly cannon. As firmly cannon I can accept only feats that have at least some significance in the story.

Originally posted by Arhael
There is a reason why even The Ones used wings in order to fly.
Wait... godly transformations, teleportation, conjuration, alteration, and god knows what other 'ation', are all perfectly fine Force techniques in Star Wars...

but levitation is going too far?

Originally posted by Arhael
As firmly cannon I can... have... some significance...

You tell 'em!

You tell 'em! [/B]


lol. As always spot on. 😆