Originally posted by -K-M-
Magik was on the ground struggling and was bloody. If Widow didnt turn her back she could of won which is silly.
Magik also stated that :
"You think broken bones...torn flesh...are the worst thing that's ever happened to me ?"
Basically she wasn't all that bothered by the Widow's beating .
At the end of the day she still won(although the I agree that the whole fight was poorly written , which makes me hate street-levellers even more now) .
Originally posted by nwg202
Yup. That whole match up was silly. They just needed two girls who can speak russian so they could try their new app. At least someone told me the russian translation made it clear that magik was treating it like a game, and if she was serious that widow would die...still a silly match though especially when she beat strange in the same event. Yep handle Enchantress, Belasco, Magus, Strange and Legion in Limbo while you get your ass handed to you by the black widow...gotta love Marvel...
Confirmation : http://acomicbookblog.com/2012/06/avengers-vs-x-men-vs-3-review/
Btw , this entire event(AvX) has turned out to be garbage .
So she just brought out her sword at the end of the match? She was going hand to hand in her human form the whole time? No armor no Demon form hmmm.. that's kinda dumb. lol She just wanted to sharpen her hand to hand skills I guess.
I guess she was playing around then, when she battled Strange she was in demon form and the sword was out at the start of the fight.
Delta1938Well, I'd say more of a "not holding back" Superman. But you mean like this?
Yeah, she'd need luck to win.
Keep in mind that was an alt timeline. Different Diana.
In the main timeline, Diana has fought no-holding back Clark who used his powers well, doing stuff like using heatvision while blitzing and trying to throw her into the sun, and avoiding the lasso every time she tried to use it.
In Sacrifice, where she won in the end. Hurt a lot, but won.
Then there was another time when he was made mindlessly angry, but stronger (Circe cast an enchantment on him that made him grow doomsday-like bone and muscle). Managed there too, held him off until she got the lasso around him and broke the enchantment (despite another villain stealing the lasso at the start of the fight making her have to retrieve it).
WW is a character who's alternate versions tend to be weaker and less impressive, but in the main timeline WW's fought Superman maybe a half dozen times and holds her own reliably. It's one of the most consistent matchups around in terms of portrayal, really. Superman has the edge due to power with causes attrition, but WW does have the ability to equalize things or get a win if there's an opening with her weapons.
Originally posted by Q99
Keep in mind that was an alt timeline. Different Diana.In the main timeline, Diana has fought no-holding back Clark who used his powers well, doing stuff like using heatvision while blitzing and trying to throw her into the sun, and avoiding the lasso every time she tried to use it.
In Sacrifice, where she won in the end. Hurt a lot, but won.
Then there was another time when he was made mindlessly angry, but stronger (Circe cast an enchantment on him that made him grow doomsday-like bone and muscle). Managed there too, held him off until she got the lasso around him and broke the enchantment (despite another villain stealing the lasso at the start of the fight making her have to retrieve it).
WW is a character who's alternate versions tend to be weaker and less impressive, but in the main timeline WW's fought Superman maybe a half dozen times and holds her own reliably. It's one of the most consistent matchups around in terms of portrayal, really. Superman has the edge due to power with causes attrition, but WW does have the ability to equalize things or get a win if there's an opening with her weapons.
Originally posted by Q99
Keep in mind that was an alt timeline. Different Diana.
Wrong, it wasn't an alternate timeline. It was the main timeline, simply manipulated. You argue different Diana? What about different Superman? Odds are he had none of the power-ups when time was messed with there, he simply wasn't holding back like he used to.
Originally posted by Q99
In the main timeline, Diana has fought no-holding back Clark who used his powers well, doing stuff like using heatvision while blitzing and trying to throw her into the sun, and avoiding the lasso every time she tried to use it.In Sacrifice, where she won in the end. Hurt a lot, but won.
I've read SACRIFICE, I know what happened. She did horribly, actually. The only reason she survived is Superman's state of mind. He thought he was fighting Doomsday, and was fighting like an idiot. Do you really think it's a smart move to punch someone who can't fly back to Earth? That's what he thought he was doing. And if it weren't for him being under the illusion he was, she wouldn't have pulled-off the tiara move. If he knew it was coming, he could've and would've either dodged or deflected it, possibly even catch it. Oh yeah, and the whole turning point in the fight was when she snuck-up on him and slammed her bracelets into his ears while he was actively using his hearing. Something she wouldn't have pulled-off if he knew he was fighting her instead of Doomsday(someone neither known for tactics or stealth). Plus, he STILL wasn't going all-out. In the next issue of the storyline, we find-out that Superman wanted to make Doomsday suffer before killing him. So, she fought a barely holding back Superman who was fighting like a retard and didn't know who his opponent was.
Originally posted by Q99
Then there was another time when he was made mindlessly angry, but stronger (Circe cast an enchantment on him that made him grow doomsday-like bone and muscle). Managed there too, held him off until she got the lasso around him and broke the enchantment (despite another villain stealing the lasso at the start of the fight making her have to retrieve it).
No, he wasn't stronger than normal. If he were, she would've died. I've seen people argue that his strength was boosted, claiming it was his strength plus Doomsday's. Oh yeah, and he was handicapped there too, with his intelligence being turned primitive. Even with that handicap, I do not see her surviving if he was stronger, especially DD+SM strong. About the only thing that Circe's enchantment added was the bone spurs on his knuckles, which came into play a whole once during the fight. As for her losing the lasso, yeah a villain(Silver Swan? Don't remember if it was "Silver" or not), but you forget, that she initially lost it because he overwhelmed her and made her drop it.
Originally posted by Q99
WW is a character who's alternate versions tend to be weaker and less impressive, but in the main timeline WW's fought Superman maybe a half dozen times and holds her own reliably. It's one of the most consistent matchups around in terms of portrayal, really. Superman has the edge due to power with causes attrition, but WW does have the ability to equalize things or get a win if there's an opening with her weapons.
Her alternate versions tend to be weaker and less impressive? Maybe, but if you argue "different Diana" for SUPERMAN/BATMAN #15, you have to admit this would be a different Superman. And it's the only example we have of Superman not holding back AND not being handicapped. And considering fights we've seen like in FOR TOMORROW and A LEAGUE OF ONE where she still looks inferior despite him not taking her seriously, combined with how poorly she does when he's all-out but handicapped, well, I think the S/B fight is what would happen without circumstances hindering him. The best she ever did was in ACTION COMICS #600, when Superman was still under Byrne, and it was a "mock battle."
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Confirmation : http://acomicbookblog.com/2012/06/avengers-vs-x-men-vs-3-review/Btw , this entire event(AvX) has turned out to be garbage .
Just chalk it up as a great pot buzz gone awry.
Originally posted by Delta1938Sorry.
YESH, next time would you please make sure there's more space between the quotes and when you respond? I've had to have trouble separating your responses. Thanks in advanced.
That's all she needs to prove that she can move and respond at ftl speeds. Thus she can fight at ftl speeds.Yeah, I've seen her do stuff like that, but I haven't seen anything particular for her time perceptions, nor anything beyond the blocking that really qualifies for FTL combat speed. Street Level characters with normal human speed are still capable of catching bullets, for a scaled-down comparison.
Is Karate Kid (Val) powerful? Why?I hate to use the Appeal To The Majority, but I'd say you're one of the very few who'd count skill as an actual factor in one's power. It simply isn't the case. Being more formidable doesn't mean more powerful. It's as simple as that. It might be your opinion, but to be blunt it's flat-out wrong.
Outmaneuvering and leverage vs. overpowering is two different things. You have to be in the vicinity of someone's strength just to move them against their will. Batman can't move Superman against Kal's will no matter how skilled he is. Skill will help (for leverage) but you definitely have to at least be in their strength vicinity.I take it you've never trained in a grappling-based Martial Art? Strength at the least does help, and sometimes can be very important, but you're completely unaware of how important skill is. When I had first started Judo, I ranged from having trouble to being beaten in sparring sessions with girls HALF MY SIZE who were much higher ranked than I was. As I got better, I was able to out-grapple guys bigger than me, including in street fights if it went to the ground.
But you missed the point that I was saying it wasn't pure strength, and do we even know how much sunlight she got? She could've been fairly to very weak for a Daxamite. And the being partially blind couldn't have helped.
It's established canon for Pre-DCnU that Superman holds back, and actually to the point that he subconsciously regulates his powers. Many, many times Superman has blatantly overpowered her. And he has a couple of showings where entire groups attempt to restrain him, with leverage, and struggle or even fail, one included Wonder Woman, the other at least two who are on her level. I wouldn't say so much of "portrayals" as just how much he's holding back. I mean the fight in FOR TOMORROW he showed to be her superior in strength twice while the entire fight he treated her like she wasn't even a threat. That pretty much screams he's on another level to me.
Then you don't understand physics. With 100tons of force someone can throw a rock faster than a bullet. If two forces meet in opposition and one force is 100tons more than the other then the stronger force is going to accelerate the weaker one greater than bullet speed. Thus it would appear as if the weaker one is a rag doll. Also applying 1lb of force more than what a being's durability can take will crush them. These characters weight about 200lb. So a 100ton strength advantage can be seen as significant.I highly doubt that 100 ton or even 1,000 ton difference in strength would be that noticeable at her level of strength.
He thought he was fighting Doomsday. A larger, unintelligent brute who's not prone to fighting skillfully or using either tactics or stealth. If he really knew who he was fighting, do you think she'd have been able to pull off what she did? If he knew it was Wonder Woman, do you think he'd be standing there actively listening for her? No, I don't think he would. You think if he knew she was using her tiara, that he'd stand there and let it slice his throat? I doubt it. And he could've dodged it, or used his breath to deflect it. Maybe even catch it. But the reality is, all those things she did that gave her a chance and then the win wouldn't have worked if he had any clue what he was actually facing.
Only if you think it is nigh hard for her to block or evade one of his attacks. If that is the case then yeah she'd need luck to win. Hell the Aegis shield automatically would stalemate him.Yeah, she'd need luck to win.
Originally posted by h1a8
Sorry.
It's ok, sorry if it seemed harh or hostile. Wasn't meant to be, but looking at it again, it could've been taken that way.
Originally posted by h1a8
That's all she needs to prove that she can move and respond at ftl speeds. Thus she can fight at ftl speeds.
I'm not seeing anything to indicate she could speedblitz at even near-lightspeed, let alone FTL, and can't recall any examples of her having FTL speed. The reflexes thing isn't the best argument, as skill can be a factor.
Originally posted by h1a8
Is Karate Kid (Val) powerful?
❌ Nuh uh.
Originally posted by h1a8
Why?
'Cuz he has no powers, last I checked.
Originally posted by h1a8
My definition is not only the correct one--
❌ Nuh uh.
Originally posted by h1a8
--but I believe it is the one of Majority.
You wanna do a poll to decide this?
Originally posted by h1a8
Otherwise, what is the relevance of talking about being more powerful when it has nothing to do with winning power or ability to force an outcome? It's just stupid and wasteful talk then. Think about it.
If skill=power then why aren't characters like Batman considered superhuman? Do you think Spider-Man's more powerful than Rhino? Spidey's a whole lot more skilled and effective. But who do you think is more powerful?
The relevance for talking about power is to find-out who's more powerful, not who's more effective/formidable. Skill can and has compensated for a lack of power to varying degrees, but it doesn't make you powerful. I'm a lot more skilled than the average person at fighting, and have beaten guys bigger and stronger than me in street fights, but does that make me more powerful than them? No, if we did some weight lifting contest or a contest of strength, I'd get my ass kicked. If you want someone to help you move heavy stuff, they'd be better picks before me. But it doesn't mean they'd win. However, if you erased all my training and experience, I'm sure I'd get my ass kicked in rematches. Skill does NOT equal power. It equals skill.
Originally posted by h1a8
Outmaneuvering and leverage vs. overpowering is two different things. You have to be in the vicinity of someone's strength just to move them against their will. Batman can't move Superman against Kal's will no matter how skilled he is. Skill will help (for leverage) but you definitely have to at least be in their strength vicinity.
I still don't think you really know what you're talking about when it comes to grappling. Problem is though, you're either intently using a strawman or you're completely missing one of the points I made. The whole her having grappling skill isn't the part. How powerful was that Daxamite, actually? How much sunlight did she have for us to know whether she really was powerful or not? I've seen it brought-up that it was questionable how powerful she was, and unless she did stuff that I'm unaware of, you're assuming she's really powerful just because of her heritage. What I'd seen of Wonder Woman even back then wouldn't make me think she was even close to on par with Superman.
Originally posted by h1a8
This reply wasn't needed as I admitted to this. It's just that she has been shown and portrayed as a near peer to him in strength before. But mostly he has been portrayed as decisively stronger. To be honest, it doesn't matter if Kal is stronger. WW has sufficient strength to hurt or stun him is all that matters. This along with her skill and lasso gives her a chance in any fight against Superman.
I do feel it's needed, BECAUSE she only has a chance when he holds back. Her being shown as a peer is only because he holds back. Even when holding back, he's still stronger, so her skill and equipment help compensate. When he's not? Well, it's just not good for her at all.
Take for example the SACRIFICE fight. When she snuck-up behind him and bashed his ears with her bracelets? Think about that. That was a sucker-"punch"(quotes since it wasn't a punch), with the force enhanced by being focused on some rather durable metal bracelets, and on a vulnerable area. But all she could do was stun him. She failed to knock him out. What does that say about her compared to him? If Superman did the equivalent, do you think she'd still be conscious?
Originally posted by h1a8
Then you don't understand physics. With 100tons of force someone can throw a rock faster than a bullet. If two forces meet in opposition and one force is 100tons more than the other then the stronger force is going to accelerate the weaker one greater than bullet speed. Thus it would appear as if the weaker one is a rag doll. Also applying 1lb of force more than what a being's durability can take will crush them. These characters weight about 200lb. So a 100ton strength advantage can be seen as significant.
I'm not a physicist, but I do understand basic physics. You don't seem to understand sheer scale. At the level of strength she has, I don't think a thousand tons strength difference will be noticeable. It's like a mountain. Do you think you'd notice the difference between 1,000 feet and 1,001 feet?
Originally posted by h1a8
You seem to talk about instances where Superman was fighting dumb. What about WW? She too was fighting dumb. Both were. You post examples of Kal owning her in other instances but fail to see that she was fighting dumb. She clearly forgot her awesome MA skill and ftl reflex speed. She definitely has the speed and skill necessarily to avoid one his attacks. She has great countering abilities. You can't sit here and tell me that it is close to impossible or highly unlikely that Diana can't block or evade one of his attacks. If both fought smart then Diana still has great winning chances because of the lasso. A stunned hit into a lasso tie wins it for her everytime.
Or, maybe you're overrating her speed by a LOT? He's already shown to be faster than her, ranging from noticeably to MUCH, including him being casual about it. She really doesn't have a chance without luck if he's fighting intelligently and going all-out. Hell, during FINAL CRISIS we see him take her out by accident with his heat vision.
Originally posted by h1a8
Only if you think it is nigh hard for her to block or evade one of his attacks. If that is the case then yeah she'd need luck to win. Hell the Aegis shield automatically would stalemate him.
It'd be very hard for her to deal with his attacks if he's fighting intelligently and going all-out. He's faster than her(probably by a LOT), he's more versatile, and he can multi-task with his powers. We already saw him rushing her at super speed while firing off blasts of heat vision and she couldn't do anything to stop him but desperately deflect the blasts. She was kept busy and couldn't stop him from grabbing her by the throat and dragging her into space. And he could've fought even more effectively using heat vision.
If he knew she was Wonder Woman instead of Doomsday, and wanted to end it quick instead of inducing suffering, she would've been killed as soon as they got near the Sun. He would've just thrown her in before she could try anything.
I know this is Superwoman, not Wonder Woman, and I dunno what the skill difference is between the two, and yes, psychological warfare came into play. But what does it say about Wonder Woman if her counter-part gets owned like she does here?
Superwoman might as well have not even been there. Her skill can't overcome the strength, speed and durability advantage if he's competent and going all-out when he's pretty skilled himself.
Originally posted by Delta1938
I'm not seeing anything to indicate she could speedblitz at even near-lightspeed, let alone FTL, and can't recall any examples of her having FTL speed. The reflexes thing isn't the best argument, as skill can be a factor.
Fighting at ftl speeds doesn't mean to blitz at ftl speeds. It simply means to be able to maneuver and respond at ftl speeds. It's nigh impossible to blitz WW if you are not flash.
❌ Nuh uh.
'Cuz he has no powers, last I checked.
❌ Nuh uh.
You wanna do a poll to decide this?
If skill=power then why aren't characters like Batman considered superhuman? Do you think Spider-Man's more powerful than Rhino? Spidey's a whole lot more skilled and effective. But who do you think is more powerful?
The relevance for talking about power is to find-out who's more powerful, not who's more effective/formidable. Skill can and has compensated for a lack of power to varying degrees, but it doesn't make you powerful. I'm a lot more skilled than the average person at fighting, and have beaten guys bigger and stronger than me in street fights, but does that make me more powerful than them? No, if we did some weight lifting contest or a contest of strength, I'd get my ass kicked. If you want someone to help you move heavy stuff, they'd be better picks before me. But it doesn't mean they'd win. However, if you erased all my training and experience, I'm sure I'd get my ass kicked in rematches. Skill does NOT equal power. It equals skill.
Again you didn't answer my question but rather are using circular reasoning. What is the relevance in discussing who's more powerful when it has nothing to do with winning? I could care less if X is more powerful than Y, as long as Y wins a majority is all I care.
I still don't think you really know what you're talking about when it comes to grappling. Problem is though, you're either intently using a strawman or you're completely missing one of the points I made. The whole her having grappling skill isn't the part. How powerful was that Daxamite, actually? How much sunlight did she have for us to know whether she really was powerful or not? I've seen it brought-up that it was questionable how powerful she was, and unless she did stuff that I'm unaware of, you're assuming she's really powerful just because of her heritage. What I'd seen of Wonder Woman even back then wouldn't make me think she was even close to on par with Superman.
There is no such thing as how much sunlight she got since these characters never existed and these things never happened. Let's avoid making stuff up and go by writer's intentions. By default a character is not handicapped or is operating at normal/average capacity in a comic unless the writer states that they are not. So by default the Daxamite was at average levels.
I do feel it's needed, BECAUSE she only has a chance when he holds back. Her being shown as a peer is only because he holds back. Even when holding back, he's still stronger, so her skill and equipment help compensate. When he's not? Well, it's just not good for her at all.Take for example the SACRIFICE fight. When she snuck-up behind him and bashed his ears with her bracelets? Think about that. That was a sucker-"punch"(quotes since it wasn't a punch), with the force enhanced by being focused on some rather durable metal bracelets, and on a vulnerable area. But all she could do was stun him. She failed to knock him out. What does that say about her compared to him? If Superman did the equivalent, do you think she'd still be conscious?
This is irrelevant since WW has the capacity to block or dodge a Superman attack. She can then counter with a nerve strike and lasso him ftw. She may not be able to do this all the time but she can for a majority of the time when fighting at her best.
You don't understand. Opposite but equal forces cancel out. But a greater force acting against a weaker force is equivalent to the difference in these forces acting on an object not using any force whatsoever. So if X has 1000 tons of force and Y has 1100 tons of force then this is equivalent to Y using 100tons of force against an object not applying a force at all. With the extra 100 tons of force Y will sling X around like a rag doll with ease.
I'm not a physicist, but I do understand basic physics. You don't seem to understand sheer scale. At the level of strength she has, I don't think a thousand tons strength difference will be noticeable. It's like a mountain. Do you think you'd notice the difference between 1,000 feet and 1,001 feet?
How fast can you push something with 100 tons of force? Pretty fast!
Now if I had 1100 tons of force pushing against your 1000 tons of force then guess with what force I'm going to push you with? That's right a 100 tons of force. I will send you flying like an insect with incredible speed.
Or, maybe you're overrating her speed by a LOT? He's already shown to be faster than her, ranging from noticeably to MUCH, including him being casual about it. She really doesn't have a chance without luck if he's fighting intelligently and going all-out. Hell, during FINAL CRISIS we see him take her out by accident with his heat vision.
She is plenty fast enough to counter one of his punch attacks with a nerve strike. Plus she can send the HV back at him, harming himself. You act like she would be a statue or something to him. That's crazy.
It'd be very hard for her to deal with his attacks if he's fighting intelligently and going all-out. He's faster than her(probably by a LOT), he's more versatile, and he can multi-task with his powers. We already saw him rushing her at super speed while firing off blasts of heat vision and she couldn't do anything to stop him but desperately deflect the blasts. She was kept busy and couldn't stop him from grabbing her by the throat and dragging her into space. And he could've fought even more effectively using heat vision.
Originally posted by h1a8
Fighting at ftl speeds doesn't mean to blitz at ftl speeds. It simply means to be able to maneuver and respond at ftl speeds. It's nigh impossible to blitz WW if you are not flash.
She wasn't able to accomplish shit against Superman on more than one occasion. He's much faster than her.
Originally posted by h1a8
Again you didn't answer my question but rather are using circular reasoning. What is the relevance in discussing who's more powerful when it has nothing to do with winning? I could care less if X is more powerful than Y, as long as Y wins a majority is all I care.
I thought the questions I asked would answer your question for you. The relevance is to find-out who's more powerful, not more formidable, not more skilled, but more powerful. And that's that. If it were a "Who would win?" debate then it would've been who would win, not who's more powerful.
Originally posted by h1a8
There is no such thing as how much sunlight she got since these characters never existed and these things never happened. Let's avoid making stuff up and go by writer's intentions. By default a character is not handicapped or is operating at normal/average capacity in a comic unless the writer states that they are not. So by default the Daxamite was at average levels.
If you really think this is an average Daxamite, then Daxamites aren't that great. Lar Gand looked inferior(once VASTLY) to Superman on 3 different occasions. So, using this chick isn't exactly an impressive showing for Wonder Woman to say she's comparable to Superman.
Originally posted by h1a8
This is irrelevant since WW has the capacity to block or dodge a Superman attack. She can then counter with a nerve strike and lasso him ftw. She may not be able to do this all the time but she can for a majority of the time when fighting at her best.
Yeah, that's why she's countering him here.
Whoops, nope, she couldn't. In fact she said she knew she couldn't beat him. Well she must here--
--er nope not here either. Sure barely blocked the heat vision, and couldn't counter when he actually got to her.
Originally posted by h1a8
You don't understand. Opposite but equal forces cancel out. But a greater force acting against a weaker force is equivalent to the difference in these forces acting on an object not using any force whatsoever. So if X has 1000 tons of force and Y has 1100 tons of force then this is equivalent to Y using 100tons of force against an object not applying a force at all. With the extra 100 tons of force Y will sling X around like a rag doll with ease.How fast can you push something with 100 tons of force? Pretty fast!
Now if I had 1100 tons of force pushing against your 1000 tons of force then guess with what force I'm going to push you with? That's right a 100 tons of force. I will send you flying like an insect with incredible speed.
Did the scale point go right over your head? I guess it did. If you're going to scale it down to that, it's more like Wonder Woman's 250 tons to Superman's 1,500.
Originally posted by h1a8
He may be faster than her but not faster than what she can respond to defensively. Again she has ftl movement in her limbs and torso as well as the reflexes to go with it. And you should stop lowballing WW. She has shown ftl movement and reflexes countless times to be able to avoid Superman's attacks. You can create a poll of "Can WW possibly block or dodge a Superman's attack?" You will get an overwhelming vote for yes. Again this is appealing to the Majority but sometimes that is all we have. Because the alternative is you lowballing WW and using instances where she isn't using her best abilities against Clark as she has shown before.She is plenty fast enough to counter one of his punch attacks with a nerve strike. Plus she can send the HV back at him, harming himself. You act like she would be a statue or something to him. That's crazy.
She couldn't defend against him in A LEAGUE OF ONE, she had to sucker-kick him and attack while he was still confused. She barely was able to block the heat vision attack and it wasn't even a heat vision speedblitz like he's done before, and she couldn't counter when he closed the gap and got physical. Oh yeah, she couldn't react here, either.
Also, his feats of speed are so far above her reflex feats that yes, he can speedblitz her if he wants.
Originally posted by Delta1938
She wasn't able to accomplish shit against Superman on more than one occasion. He's much faster than her.I thought the questions I asked would answer your question for you. The relevance is to find-out who's more powerful, not more formidable, not more skilled, but more powerful. And that's that. If it were a "Who would win?" debate then it would've been who would win, not who's more powerful.
You don't understand. It's about the spirit of the question. We can ask who is more green Savage Hulk or WWH? Who cares if it has nothing to do with what we really want to know? Ask anyone. Being more powerful is very relevant in winning power, otherwise it is a wasteful thing to talk about. It would have no spirit of comic debating in it whatsoever.
Clearly not shown inferior in strength but prehaps in overall formidable-ness.
If you really think this is an average Daxamite, then Daxamites aren't that great. Lar Gand looked inferior(once VASTLY) to Superman on 3 different occasions. So, using this chick isn't exactly an impressive showing for Wonder Woman to say she's comparable to Superman.
Yeah, that's why she's countering him here.Whoops, nope, she couldn't. In fact she said she knew she couldn't beat him. Well she must here--
--er nope not here either. Sure barely blocked the heat vision, and couldn't counter when he actually got to her.
Did the scale point go right over your head? I guess it did. If you're going to scale it down to that, it's more like Wonder Woman's 250 tons to Superman's 1,500.
Again with the lowballing. She wasn't prepared to defend and we actually know she has ftl movement and reflexes, unless you want to argue that everytime Superman attacked her when she was fully aware that it was well above FTL speeds. If that is the case then I concede and will happily take it 😄
She couldn't defend against him in A LEAGUE OF ONE, she had to sucker-kick him and attack while he was still confused. She barely was able to block the heat vision attack and it wasn't even a heat vision speedblitz like he's done before, and she couldn't counter when he closed the gap and got physical. Oh yeah, she couldn't react here, either.Also, his feats of speed are so far above her reflex feats that yes, he can speedblitz her if he wants.
She couldn't defend against him in A LEAGUE OF ONE, she had to sucker-kick him and attack while he was still confused.
Uh, how is that 'not defending against him' when she landed all the hits?
She barely was able to block the heat vision attack and it wasn't even a heat vision speedblitz like he's done before, and she couldn't counter when he closed the gap and got physical.
That was specifically a heat vision speedblitz, it was noted he was using his super speed. He did get close and had the edge then, but after she broke free and they got back to Earth, she was able to regain the initiative and landed several powerful blows, he broke her wrist, she landed a kick so hard that he stayed down in the impact site long enough for her to fix it and get enough lead to get to Max first, and then, oh yea, WW cut his throat and won the fight.
Oh yeah, she couldn't react here, either.
I take it you have not read the entire fight? Where she comes back, hits him, they go back and forth, and he is unable to get past her, which is his entire objective, until an outside distraction, civilians in danger, makes her peel off.
I notice all of your arguments rely on taking one bit of a fight out of context and ignoring the bits where she fought back immediately after.
Also, his feats of speed are so far above her reflex feats that yes, he can speedblitz her if he wants.
Tried and failed.
Btw, her reflex feats include taking down Zoom, and Wally West on multiple occasions, and are specifically noted to be faster than Superman's. No-one except Flash has higher.
Originally posted by -K-M-
Instatly took her to Limbo, and then sent several demons to attack Widow but she killed them with her guns. Magik then tried to cast a spell, but Widow jumped her before she could finish. She then started to pound on Magik, and then she summons 1000 demons, but Widow points a gun to her head and orders to take her back to the real world. She does. Magik is on the ground bloody and Widow turns her back and says "whose next?" and starts to leave. Magik then stabs her in the back with the Soulsword and then she mentioned it had to be a game to her or she would be dead (Widow). If Widow didnt turn her back and truely finished it she would have won.Magik never took demon form, but really she jobbed. There is no reason for Widow to even give Magik pause.
In that book Thing beat Namor underwater
Originally posted by Q99
Uh, how is that 'not defending against him' when she landed all the hits?That was specifically a heat vision speedblitz, it was noted he was using his super speed. He did get close and had the edge then, but after she broke free and they got back to Earth, she was able to regain the initiative and landed several powerful blows, he broke her wrist, she landed a kick so hard that he stayed down in the impact site long enough for her to fix it and get enough lead to get to Max first, and then, oh yea, WW cut his throat and won the fight.
I take it you have not read the entire fight? Where she comes back, hits him, they go back and forth, and he is unable to get past her, which is his entire objective, until an outside distraction, civilians in danger, makes her peel off.
I notice all of your arguments rely on taking one bit of a fight out of context and ignoring the bits where she fought back immediately after.
Tried and failed.
Btw, her reflex feats include taking down Zoom, and Wally West on multiple occasions, and are specifically noted to be faster than Superman's. No-one except Flash has higher.
She is just clueless.