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You think precog will really help him all that much? At end of the day it is not like they are using swords and single strikes that kill where single moments really matter all that much, they will naturally reach a point where they are grappling and strength/technique/instincts gained form being a veteran will win the day. Plus Bane doesn;t really uinderstand professional wrestling or Jiu-Jitsu so he might use precog to counter something but end up putting himself in a worse position.
I dont think speed will be all too big a factor either. Ultimately they are going to be grappling and movement will be very restricted so speed will largely be out of equation.
They are both massive, Brock probably has more msucle for his height but Bane is significantly taller so he will probably havr the size and weight/strength advantage. But Brock ahs training in Jiu-Jitsu plus is professional and accomplised all-american wrestler, so I think overall he would have the edge. Plus he also has experience with fighting in the octagin so that mnakes big difference too, such as knowing how to use the cage to your advantage.
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
How can you rationally argue Bane without Force augmented strength?That's like arguing Artoo is he had arms. This is stupid.
You can make estimation. Plus I never got impression that Force Users really use the Force to enhance their strength all too much. Do we really see it happen all too often? Aside form where somebody really frail uses it to make up for their shortcomings, I haven't come across someone who uses it to increase their strenght that I recall, in comb at at leats. It usually speed.
Originally posted by Darth Ray Park
You can make estimation. Plus I never got impression that Force Users really use the Force to enhance their strength all too much. Do we really see it happen all too often? Aside form where somebody really frail uses it to make up for their shortcomings, I haven't come across someone who uses it to increase their strenght that I recall, in comb at at leats. It usually speed.
Really, without delving into the multitude of EU material that supports the use of Force strength, just watch Yoda stagger Sidious in saber combat in RotS - clearly, he's not using his tiny size to do all that. He's using Force-aided strength to overcome Sidious' own.
Yeah, Bane had to work 8+ hours a day using a hydraulic jackhammer to get cortosis out of rocks. 7 feet tall and pure muscle, that guy will break Lesner's face in with his first punch. Unless you have been doing the same thing he has, you. are. screwed.
+ Close quarters pit fighting he learned on Apatros.
Originally posted by Pwned
Yeah, Bane had to work 8+ hours a day using a hydraulic jackhammer to get cortosis out of rocks. 7 feet tall and pure muscle, that guy will break Lesner's face in with his first punch. Unless you have been doing the same thing he has, you. are. screwed.+ Close quarters pit fighting he learned on Apatros.
Also, this. Well put.
Have you guys seen Brock? He's far bigger and stronger, and just plain tougher than the average miner/manual labourer. You don't have to work labour in bad conditions to be strong, Brock gets his strenght through his crazy jeans and the fact that he's been training physyically a crazy regimen that befits a wrestler for most of his life. Not to mention, this is a wrestling match, and wrestling is what he does. Striking and biting etc isn't allowed btw.
yeah I know there cases where old people have to do it to overcome theur physical frailty Stealth but I was under the impression that young/physically strong Jedis generally focused on theiur speed more than nayhting.
His jeans? So his pants make him stronger?
Dude, Bane is 7 feet tall. Pure muscle. He didn't do hard labor, he did grueling labor. Hydraulic Jackhammers (not sure if they exist in the same form he used them, never know with modern tech) = insane. And he was mining cortosis.
We are talking hold down Earthly strongmen with one arm.
Just because Brock didn't do gruelling labour it doesn't mean that he didn't work as hard training his strenght. You'd be surprised at how hard MMA fighters train, and Brock's the biggest and strongest of them all. And there's such a thing as working smart, as well as working hard, and while rigiourous physical work is certainly working hard and doing some good, it isn;t by any means the most ideal "work out" you could ask for. brock's been a wrestler his entire life and he has been, at least to the best of his knowledge, following the best physical exercise/nutrition guideliens of rthat disciplines, and certainkly when he reavhed pro level he would have had people there to tell him the best stuff to do and eat etc. to get into ideal wrestling shape. Plus I already admitted Bane has significant height advantage, so he probably has weight and strenght advantage given that he's also very muscular but if you compare p[ictures Brock is far more muscular for his height so difference shouldn't be that huge.
Way I see it, Bane may ultimately have strength advantage but Brock has far bigger advantage in technique and natural instincts and experience (both wrestling and jiu-jitsu) and Bane's advantages of speed and precog won't be too beneficial in this scenario.
In fact, with Brock's Jiu-Jitsu alone he may be able to outwrestle Bane. Jiu-Jitsu was founded upon the principle of being able to use your own technique and your opponent's strength against them, and in early UFC Royce Gracie who was tiny was able to do this against heavyweigfht who obviously had massive strngth advantage. Bane to my knowledge has no training in Jiu-Jitsu or any SW equivalent.
From what I have seen of this foum people tend to heavily udnerestimate the technique of real world fighters and overestimate force usuers, even when i handicap them to make fights slightly closer.
Originally posted by Darth Ray Park
Have you guys seen Brock? He's far bigger and stronger, and just plain tougher than the average miner/manual labourer. You don't have to work labour in bad conditions to be strong, Brock gets his strenght through his crazy jeans(LOL) and the fact that he's been training physyically a crazy regimen that befits a wrestler for most of his life. Not to mention, this is a wrestling match, and wrestling is what he does. Striking and biting etc isn't allowed btw.yeah I know there cases where old people have to do it to overcome theur physical frailty Stealth but I was under the impression that young/physically strong Jedis generally focused on theiur speed more than nayhting.
Anything in RED is Proof by Assertion. That is, you're just saying it is the case. You have no proof, and it seems you're biased in taking any claims counter to the one you had fully formed before you created this thread. This is furthered by your need to argue fully for Brock Lesnar despite considerable opposition using sources.
That in UNDERLINED ITALIC is highlighted to point out your own logical gaff. Bane is a Sith Lord who worked a job that was insanely demanding, often for 12+ hours a day (Which you'd know if you read PoD).
Lastly, it takes one thing to realize that Yoda is enhancing his strength, as are most Jedi in the films/novels/games, etc.
Spoiler:.
common sense
To the stuff in red: I'm not sure what you mean. I am saying it because it is the case. Among athletes who have hard and smart training regimes and nutrition programs etc, who work as hard as they can to remain competitive among their rivals, Brock is an absolute beast. He puts the majority of NFL players to shame, is bar far the biggest and strongestt MMA fighter of all time, makes other heavyweights look small etc. Even by WWE standards he's massive. The incentive to work hard is there, and the training consists of stuff that sports scientists and fitness experts have identified as the most appropriate and ideal for the activity that this thread is concerned with. Mining or manual labour on the other hand is working hard, not working smart. Plus, you can just compare pictures or look at statistics to see that brock would drawf the average physical labourer. So I';m not sure what proof you want from me.
To the italics, I didn't say Bane was the average miner, I said the people he beat up were.
And yes I already said I acknowledge that Yoda and the like sue the force to enhance their strenght, but in eveyr source or statement they are always referred to as a special case as people who do it to overcome the shortcomings of being old. I always got the impression that younger fighters didnt need to do it, and the main emphasis for them seems to be speed. There is reason why we have "Force Speed" in the games and sorucebooks and numerous examples of Jedis running at suoerhuman spoeeds, yet few cases of superhuman strenght. It seems using the force to enhance speed is generally far more benefificial and common.
They weren't average miners either. They had masses of muscle on them as well.
Pictures of how strong somebody looks isn't a good indicator, Bulk =/= Strength. I look like I have flabby arms, but I have a vice-grip.
Like I said, Bane is at the strength level of holding world class weight lifters down with one arm.
He can also fight blind. Lesner can't.
Originally posted by Pwned
Like I said, Bane is at the strength level of holding world class weight lifters down with one arm.
If this is somethign he did, well then it's possible that he was just subconsciously tapping into the powerf of the force btw. Also Brock is at that sort of level as well. He can maintain top position over heavyweight athletes that have trained as wrestlers like Frank Mir with ease.
He can also fight blind. Lesner can't.
So?
I think your overestimating Lesner's strength. He is stuck by reality, while Bane is not. Becuase Bane was doing sci-fi extreme labor, mining a near indestructible mineral with a hydraulic jackhammer.
Being able to fight blind is awesome, and a major advantage. He could lull Lesner into an attack by feigning dizzyness, closing his eyes, then wtfpwning him. With his eyes closed.
Originally posted by Pwned
I think your overestimating Lesner's strength. He is stuck by reality, while Bane is not. Becuase Bane was doing sci-fi extreme labor, mining a near indestructible mineral with a hydraulic jackhammer.
But Brock still has incentive to push himself as much as possible to be best athlete/wrestler/tank he can be and better than his peers, plus he has the tools to push himself at ideal resistance he will need.
Without the Force, I wouldn't be surprised if Brock is actually the stronger of the two, though the height advantage is considerable.
Being able to fight blind is awesome, and a major advantage. He could lull Lesner into an attack by feigning dizzyness, closing his eyes, then wtfpwning him. With his eyes closed.
😂
Originally posted by Darth Ray Park
Have you guys seen Brock? He's far bigger and stronger, and just plain tougher than the average miner/manual labourer. You don't have to work labour in bad conditions to be strong, Brock gets his strenght through his crazy jeans and the fact that he's been training physyically a crazy regimen that befits a wrestler for most of his life. Not to mention, this is a wrestling match, and wrestling is what he does. Striking and biting etc isn't allowed btw.yeah I know there cases where old people have to do it to overcome theur physical frailty Stealth but I was under the impression that young/physically strong Jedis generally focused on theiur speed more than nayhting.
If this is a pure wrestling match, then obviously no punches will be thrown.
However, from what I understand of Lesnar, is that Ground-fighting is actually his weakness. He's been improving but still isn't among the top of his ilk in that arena, yet.
In terms of wrestling - speed and balance are actually the most important factors (when I was much younger, I was on my school's Wrestling Team) if Bane has Precog and Speed-enhancement, then he'll know precisely where Brock is going to be when maneuvers are being executed, and he will have the speed to quickly overcome him and turn the tables.
Bane's strength in POD is at least equal to Brock's, but likely greater and their size is roughly the same.
With the speed+precog advantage + Lesnar's relative unfamiliarity with Ground-fighting - Bane wins this without too much difficulty.