Simple.
Superman is simply too damn fast with CIS off. He's a guy who's perception speed is fast enough to see light travel foot by foot.
CIS Off means, he's not going to stand around in place and let something that will feel slower to him than a slug would to us, land a hit on him.
Hulk's damage soak is epic, and it will take a lot of punches from Superman to put him down, but he will.
And to Hulk's perceptions at least, it won't feel like its taking a lot of time for him to get KO'd, since he's basically going to be eating millions of Superman punches a second--if it truly lasts that long. To Superman of course, it will feel like its taking a long ass time to throw a million punches--again, if it truly lasts that long at all.
Originally posted by CosmicComet
How, with CIS Off, is Hulk going to be able to even see Superman at all?His perception speed is simply not on that level. Oh he's fast. But he's only about blocking bullets and occasionally maybe higher end super sonic fast.
I have never seen Superman fight the way you say he fights. I am looking at on panel showings and its not there. This goes for Gladiator and Wonder Woman as well. I agree, he does use super speed but at a constant rate and at the paces you are saying...HELL NAW. This isn't "make believe" Supes vs "make believe Hulk"...we still use what they have done on panel.
Originally posted by Stoic
Oh OK, so every time Superman has been hit, it was always CIS. I see.
Every time he has been hit by someone not known as an outright [comparable] speedster or someone outright stated to have [comparable] speedster level reflexes , yes, indeed, it has been CIS/PIS etc.
Afterall, his own independent reflex feats (which is the purest way of gauging a character, as written fights will always have to bend to plot and convenience.) trump the Hulk's independent reflex feats by a gap comparable to that of a lake vs a rain drop.
So absolutely, with a thread that has the provision that CIS is off, how can a being who can see LIGHT in slow motion be hit by someone who does not come close to that at all?
It's madness. I know it doesn't 'feel right' to say Superman can stomp the likes of Thor or Hulk, but I don't argue what 'feels right' in a cross-over thread, I argue, feats.
Originally posted by carver9
I have never seen Superman fight the way you say he fights. I am looking at on panel showings and its not there. This goes for Gladiator and Wonder Woman as well. I agree, he does use super speed but at a constant rate and at the paces you are saying...HELL NAW. This isn't "make believe" Supes vs "make believe Hulk"...we still use what they have done on panel.
Bullshit.
You've tried to use one mention of a nano-second to prove Gladiator fights at nano-second speeds.
Honestly, it's like you don't even try to hide your bias anymore.
To be fair this battle would have to be waged in an arena that benefits both. Something like within a 5000 square foot energy from several stars worth of force fields, Mongul type War World setting.
I don't believe Superman would do jack to him physically to be honest unless he was toting around the same amount of solar energy as WB Hulk was, which would be impossible, due to the madder Hulk get's the more gamma he is fed from his secret little Gammaverse (thus the unknown source of his powers methinks). I wonder if he can drain that place? hmmm.
Originally posted by CosmicComet
Every time he has been hit by someone not known as an outright [comparable] speedster or someone outright stated to have [comparable] speedster level reflexes , yes, indeed, it has been CIS/PIS etc.Afterall, his own independent reflex feats (which is the purest way of gauging a character, as written fights will always have to bend to plot and convenience.) trump the Hulk's independent reflex feats by a gap comparable to that of a lake vs a rain drop.
So absolutely, with a thread that has the provision that CIS is off, how can a being who can see LIGHT in slow motion be hit by someone who does not come close to that at all?
It's madness. I know it doesn't 'feel right' to say Superman can stomp the likes of Thor or Hulk, but I don't argue what 'feels right' in a cross-over thread, I argue, feats.
People like Glads and Supes get hit 95% of the time though. Are we suppose to accept the 5% over the majority? Does that even make sense?
Originally posted by carver9
When have I ever said Gladiator is untouchable?
facepalm
Nobody said untouchable.
Originally posted by carver9
People like Glads and Supes get hit 95% of the time though. Are we suppose to accept the 5% over the majority? Does that even make sense?
It isn't 95% of the time.
It's simple.
It's CIS/PIS by writers who have no choice or are not aware of the implications of particular feats.
Fights by themselves are not indicative of reflexes.
Your actual powerset and feats are.
Sorry, but Hulk does not have a counter for the speed argument. He simply does not, especially here since the strongest argument against the speed argument; 'superman doesn't fight like that in-character', goes out the damn window since CIS Off is specified in the OP.