Originally posted by abhilegendLol, if Thor would have gotten attacked from behind by Surfer's board, it's reasonable to assume that he, too, would have experienced the subsequent beatdown. I could also point out that B&T Thor literally two-shotted Surfer, then Bill showed up and beat the crap out of B&T Thor (ie. in that instance, Bill>Surfer)... But I won't. 😛
Yep. Just compare them against surfer.
Either way, you're missing my point. I said: "any time they appear on panel together (ie. in a team-up), Bill and Thor are almost always portrayed as equals." Same with Tony and Doom--despite Doom's singular feats FAR surpassing Tony's, on panel they have consistently been portrayed as equals in almost every one-on-one battle they've had over the years.
Originally posted by Galan007Really?
Lol, if Thor would have gotten attacked from behind by Surfer's board, it's reasonable to assume that he, too, would have experienced the subsequent beatdown.
I could also point out that B&T Thor literally two-shotted Surfer, then Bill showed up and beat the crap out of B&T Thor (ie. in that instance, Bill>Surfer)... But I won't. 😛Thor then oneshotted both bill and surfer.
Either way, you're missing my point. I said: "any time they appear on panel [b]together (ie. in a team-up), Bill and Thor are almost always portrayed as equals." Same with Tony and Doom--despite Doom's singular feats FAR surpassing Tony's, on panel they have consistently been portrayed as equals in almost every one-on-one battle they've had over the years. [/B]
And my point is that Thor is superior to bill both in feats and relative showings. Check the superskrull fight in secret invasion where bill was smacked around and thor stomped the superskrull.
Originally posted by abhilegendWhat are those scans supposed to mean? It's not like Bill was KO'd by the board-strike either--all it did was knock him down. However, that moment gave Surfer the opportunity he needed to get in close to Bill and begin the melee--something he [Surfer] never tried to do to Thor in the instance you posted. However, it's worth mentioning that before the cheap-shot board-strike, Surfer couldn't do shit to Bill.
Really?
Nice try, though. 😉
Originally posted by abhilegendB&T Thor>>standard Thor. B&T Thor two-shots Surfer. Bill then beats the shit out of B&T Thor--only stopping out of the compassion he felt for his brother. If Bill wouldn't have ceased the pummeling, Thor would have never been given the chance to regroup/retaliate. That was literally Bill's fight to lose:
Thor then oneshotted both bill and surfer.
Later on during the B&T arc, Bill two-shotted Surfer himself. Want me to post that as well? Listen, I've already given credit where credit is due--don't hate just to hate.
Originally posted by abhilegendDude, you are either overlooking what I've said, or completely ignoring it. I very clearly said that Thor's feats are superior to Bill's overall--Thor has appeared in thousands of comics, whereas Bill has only appeared in a few hundred. Of course Thor is going to have more/better feats in general. I [also] very clearly said that I was solely referring to them being portrayed as equals almost every time they've appeared on panel together (ie. in a team-up.) In that type of setting, they are typically depicted as equal peers--I'd even go as far as to say that Bill has come out looking better than Thor, more times than Thor has come out looking better than Bill. Again, I was/am exclusively referring to a team-up setting .
And my point is that Thor is superior to bill both in feats and relative showings. Check the superskrull fight in secret invasion where bill was smacked around and thor stomped the superskrull.
Originally posted by Galan007Those scans were in the response of your claim that if surfer used the board-behind-the-back tactic he would beat thor too. Obviously he didn't, in fact thor wasn't even winded by that attack and it was a weakened, wounded thor. Nice try to save face though.
What are those scans supposed to mean? It's not like Bill was KO'd by the board-strike either--all it did was knock him down. However, that moment gave Surfer the opportunity he needed to get in close to Bill and begin the melee--something he [Surfer] never tried to do to Thor in the instance you posted. However, it's worth mentioning that before the cheap-shot board-strike, Surfer couldn't do shit to Bill.
Nice try, though. 😉I do my best.
B&T Thor>>standard Thor.He wasn't holding back, that's all.
B&T Thor two-shots Surfer.He oneshotted him after that.
Bill then beats the shit out of B&T Thor--only stopping out of the compassion he felt for his brother. If Bill wouldn't have ceased the pummeling, Thor would have never been given the chance to regroup/retaliate. That was literally Bill's fight to lose:Yeah, starting with a cheapshot. Thor oneshotted bill after that.
Later on during the B&T arc, Bill two-shotted Surfer himself. Want me to post that as well?Thor oneshotted surfer twiceg. Want me to post them?
Listen, I've already given credit where credit is due--don't hate just to hate.I give credit where its due too. Why would it be hating to say that Thor>BRB?
Dude, you are either overlooking what I've said, or completely ignoring it.[quote] Nope. Try again. [quote]I very clearly said that Thor's feats are superior to Bill's overall--Thor has appeared in thousands of comics, whereas Bill has only appeared in a few hundred.That was in the same comic i.e. secret invasion thor tie-in.
Of course Thor is going to have more/better feats in general.That's just an excuse galan and you know it.
I [also] very clearly said that I was solely referring to them being portrayed as equals almost every time they've appeared on panel together (ie. in a team-up.) In that type of setting, they are typically depicted as equal peers--I'd even go as far as to say that Bill has come out looking better than Thor, more times than Thor has come out looking better than Bill. Again, I was/am exclusively referring to a team-up setting .
Originally posted by abhilegendNo. I said that the board-strike is what allowed Surfer to gain the advantage against Bill--an advantage Surfer clearly did NOT try to press against Thor in the scans you posted. Therefore, the scenes are not comparable to one another, nor do they relate to what I was saying, in any way/shape/form.
Those scans were in the response of your claim that if surfer used the board-behind-the-back tactic he would beat thor too. Obviously he didn't, in fact thor wasn't even winded by that attack and it was a weakened, wounded thor. Nice try to save face though.
Are you ignoring my posts on purpose?
Originally posted by abhilegendDoesn't change the fact that B&T Thor is still superior to Thor as he's normally portrayed. Furthermore, during that particular fight, Bill>B&T Thor>>Surfer. You can't get around it, because it's clear as day on panel. The only reason Bill 'lost' that fight, is because he stopped beating the shit out of Thor out of sheer love/respect for him. It was his own mistake. I don't know why you're trying to twist it any other way. Bill had the CLEAR advantage in a one-on-one battle until he purposefully stopped said melee.
He wasn't holding back, that's all. He oneshotted him after that. Yeah, starting with a cheapshot. Thor oneshotted bill after that.
Additionally, I appreciate you at least acknowledging the fact that Surfer needed a cheap-shot to get the upper hand on Bill... Because it's true 👆
Originally posted by abhilegendNo, it's fact, actually. Thor has appeared in thousands of comics. Bill has appeared in a few hundred. Thor made his first appearance in 1962. Bill made his first appearance in 1983.
That's just an excuse galan and you know it.
Thousands more appearances+21 years longer in which to accumulate feats? Yeah, Thor should have better feats in general. Thing with Bill is that he has very few low feats.
Originally posted by abhilegendOkay?
Thor oneshotted surfer twice.
Like I said above: during that particular fight, Bill>B&T Thor>>Surfer. You can't get around it, because it's clear as day on panel. The only reason Bill 'lost' that fight, is because he stopped beating the shit out of Thor out of sheer love/respect for him. It was his own mistake. I don't know why you're trying to twist it any other way. Bill had the CLEAR advantage in a one-on-one battle until he purposefully stopped said melee.
Originally posted by abhilegendIgnoring several of Bill's showings in favor of one, eh? Nice.
When thor gets two shotted by surfer while surfer was holding back, call me about them being peers. Untill then Thor>BRB.
Again: Thor's overall feats>Bill's for reasons mentioned above--not denying that. However, in a team-up scenario/setting/environment, Bill and Thor are almost ALWAYS portrayed equally across the board. That is all I am/was/have been saying.
Originally posted by JakeTheBankGood point, though I'm sure it won't matter somehow.
Just so you guys know and in the interest of fairness, the Thor that was in Secret Invasion would have still had the Odin Force continuity wise.
As far as the Bill and BT Thor fight. Bill cheapshotted Thor from behind and landed some nasty blows afterward. In another scene, Thor swung and missed Bill. Bill then countered with some nasty blows to take Thor down temporarily.
IMO, this doesn't mean Bill>>>>>>Thor in terms of power. Surely Thor would have done the same to him if he would have gotten the first good blow in. Thor's madness made him sloppy, causing him to miss and open himself up for a vicious combo.
Also, Surfer wasn't two shotted. He was stunned but still conscious and on his knees and hands.
Each fight in comics have circumstances. That is one of the reasons ABC logic doesn't work the majority of the time.
Lastly, Thor and Bill are great against ranged attackers (like Surfer). But their weakness is getting close to them in order to hammer them with blunt force. This is where skill and speed comes into play.
