Full power Kuurth vs Superman

Originally posted by JBL
Superman is not faster than gladiator, Surfer etc. Your calculations are wrong. I remember you saying that Supermans heat vision was thousands of times hotter than the sun, yet it's only 5000 degrees at max.and don't bring up Vega... That was an island on earth.

I posted a scan proving that Superman's hv is that hot. Man can measure temperatures that are over a thousand times hotter than the sun. Yet Superman's hv was off the charts when they attempted to measure it.

Originally posted by h1a8
I'm going to report you.
Give feats for Gladiator that are equal or better than any of Superman feats.
Superman's top travel feat are astronomically more than Gladiator's. Superman's top reaction/perception feat is astronomically more than any of Gladiator's or Surfer's top feats.

I posted a scan proving that Superman's hv is that hot. Man can measure temperatures that are over a thousand times hotter than the sun. Yet Superman's hv was off the charts when they attempted to measure it.

Originally posted by JBL
No... No... And No. His max was 5000 degrees on panel and stated.

Originally posted by JBL
Flash would run circles around superman, he's NOT almost as fast as flash. Superman loses here.

Originally posted by JBL
Marvel Comics have characters that would make superman look like a fool when it comes to speed and strength. Thor and hulk have a long history of tagging speedsters. That's part of their character and powerset. They WILL hit superman, no question about it. Surfer,Gladiator, Hyperion, Count Neferia, Sentry and Blue Marvel could not care less at supermans speed. Most of the ones named here would dust superman in flight speed, reflex speed or anything else dealing with speed. Superman and flash if in marvel comics would be NOTHING special. Marvel has stronger and faster characters capable of shattering planets or blowing them up with an energy blast or mere thought.Anybody thinking superman won't get hit is just a fan that hates the idea that superman can be beaten and hit.

Originally posted by JBL
No... No... And No. His max was 5000 degrees on panel and stated.

Also, post the scan proving he can only do 5000 degrees.

Originally posted by h1a8
Yet he exerted far hotter than that in my scan.
If one scene states a character can only lift 10tons and we have other scenes where the character lifting more then what do we go with?

Also, post the scan proving he can only do 5000 degrees.

What Leo said used to be true, but now I feel like they're indistinguishable from one another with the exception of DC characters routinely getting speed-feats and Marvel characters all having human reaction time 😂

Originally posted by krisblaze
What Leo said used to be true, but now I feel like they're indistinguishable from one another with the exception of DC characters routinely getting speed-feats and Marvel characters all having human reaction time 😂

Which may be similar to what I was thinking if I've read your post correctly. Reaction time is something that can't be ignored right? What happens when the slower guys react and hit the faster guys? Let's put Superman aside for a second. This means that Gladiator should never be able to be beaten, Blue Marvel should never be tagged, Photon should blitz anyone incapable of moving over light speed like the Silver Surfer. The list goes on and on for those characters that move at those speeds. But there we have them being hit all of the time, and for most actually defeated. That must be PIS right? Superman being hit and people calling PIS goes against the forum ruling of it happening more than 3 times. This is what I'm arguing. It can't work one way but not the other.

There's a forum ruling about three times?

Edit: and as for that argument:. Batman.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
There's a forum ruling about three times?

Edit: and as for that argument:. Batman.

Never heard of such a rule. Anywhere.

Lot of places have an "X and Y feats to prove bullet timer" rules, but never a "Three hits on Flash, no longer pis"..

Originally posted by krisblaze
What Leo said used to be true, but now I feel like they're indistinguishable from one another with the exception of DC characters routinely getting speed-feats and Marvel characters all having human reaction time 😂

i think they are def a lot closer than they used to be but it's impossible to suddenly give thor superman speed--though marvel has tried highlighting his speed a little more at times. it seems when they do, someone else shows logan as too fast for him though, so... lol strength has gotten closer i agree. that's a result of both companies falling closer to the middle. we don't see the craziness of pc characters very often, and if we do today's writers make it seem less....ridiculous, usually. but dc pulled back and marvel moved up, so strength is close. speed is still lopsided in favor of dc, many of whose characters make light speed snail-slow by comparison. i just feel like dc guys have such a longer istory to draw from that it makes it tough for many marvel guys.

Originally posted by Stoic
Which may be similar to what I was thinking if I've read your post correctly. Reaction time is something that can't be ignored right? What happens when the slower guys react and hit the faster guys? Let's put Superman aside for a second. This means that Gladiator should never be able to be beaten, Blue Marvel should never be tagged, Photon should blitz anyone incapable of moving over light speed like the Silver Surfer. The list goes on and on for those characters that move at those speeds. But there we have them being hit all of the time, and for most actually defeated. That must be PIS right? Superman being hit and people calling PIS goes against the forum ruling of it happening more than 3 times. This is what I'm arguing. It can't work one way but not the other.

in some cases there IS a legit reason for someone like superman getting tagged, in some cases there isn't. you mentioned glads and bm and photon--first, they are all far slower than superman's best feats, forget someone like a flash, but my point holds for them as well, yes.

i mean, does it make sense that logan can battle glads h2h? that he can't outreact gambit?? not imo. there is no way to rationalize those types of scenes so what do we do? we label it pis. but what if he keeps getting hit by guys like hulk and colossus? do we now just say he's stupid? slow? uses his speed selectively for some reason that only the character knows? of course not. we acknowledge that we are arguing characters whose ultimate limits are plot driven. it's cool watching hulk thrash glads. less cool if we realize that glads should see hulk as an utter statue and hit him 10 000 times before hulk does anything at all. this is why you will ALWAYS get someone claiming someone is low balling, while someone calls pis. some characters you mentioned like photon don't have as many demonstrations of the type you're talking about. bm either. sentry is another one. even surfer has very few of the superman/flash style speed feats. guys like flash and superman have DECADES of feats to support their speed. it's a fact that we have to ignore a LOT MORE from superman than we do from any of the marvel guys you mentioned.

i don't have an answer for you because i don't think there IS an answer. forum characters are intended to be different from comic characters, but we are not supposed to argue power sets here. that....doesn't leave a lot of room. i think MOST still try to at least take into consideration what a fight in a comic would look like between characters, (i certainly do in most cases) but....that really isn't what it's supposed to be about here. i guess we just argue the way we think makes the most sense, trying to factor in character, rules and comics. i find only a few people here balance those things pretty well. they're the ones i don't have on ignore. lol

Did Leo write something? I have him on ignore 👆

Originally posted by JBL
Did your scan give a number? I guarantee you that it didn't. Supermans heat vision was stated to be 5000 degrees at maximum. No speculation, no guessing, no dispute. Flat out stated with numbers. Just like when flash got those people out that city and you fans claimed he was moving at thousands of times light speed yet it was STATED that he was moving just under lightspeed. Stop trying to add on to make your character better than any other character by stating false feats.

My scan stated that it was off the charts by ANY of the STANDARD SCIENTIFIC MEASURES. That's means it is higher than what man can measure.

Are you going to post the scan or give the issue number to 5000 being the max? Or should I report you?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
There's a forum ruling about three times?

Edit: and as for that argument:. Batman.

It says that if something happens more than 3 times it should not be considered PIS any longer. For example, if Spiderman beats up Firelord 2 more times, etc.

You just made it up, St.

Originally posted by leonidas
i think they are def a lot closer than they used to be but it's impossible to suddenly give thor superman speed--though marvel has tried highlighting his speed a little more at times. it seems when they do, someone else shows logan as too fast for him though, so... lol strength has gotten closer i agree. that's a result of both companies falling closer to the middle. we don't see the craziness of pc characters very often, and if we do today's writers make it seem less....ridiculous, usually. but dc pulled back and marvel moved up, so strength is close. speed is still lopsided in favor of dc, many of whose characters make light speed snail-slow by comparison. i just feel like dc guys have such a longer istory to draw from that it makes it tough for many marvel guys.

in some cases there IS a legit reason for someone like superman getting tagged, in some cases there isn't. you mentioned glads and bm and photon--first, they are all far slower than superman's best feats, forget someone like a flash, but my point holds for them as well, yes.

i mean, does it make sense that logan can battle glads h2h? that he can't out react gambit?? not imo. there is no way to rationalize those types of scenes so what do we do? we label it pis. but what if he keeps getting hit by guys like hulk and colossus? do we now just say he's stupid? slow? uses his speed selectively for some reason that only the character knows? of course not. we acknowledge that we are arguing characters whose ultimate limits are plot driven. it's cool watching hulk thrash glads. less cool if we realize that glads should see hulk as an utter statue and hit him 10 000 times before hulk does anything at all. this is why you will ALWAYS get someone claiming someone is low balling, while someone calls pis. some characters you mentioned like photon don't have as many demonstrations of the type you're talking about. bm either. sentry is another one. even surfer has very few of the superman/flash style speed feats. guys like flash and superman have DECADES of feats to support their speed. it's a fact that we have to ignore a LOT MORE from superman than we do from any of the marvel guys you mentioned.

i don't have an answer for you because i don't think there IS an answer. forum characters are intended to be different from comic characters, but we are not supposed to argue power sets here. that....doesn't leave a lot of room. i think MOST still try to at least take into consideration what a fight in a comic would look like between characters, (i certainly do in most cases) but....that really isn't what it's supposed to be about here. i guess we just argue the way we think makes the most sense, trying to factor in character, rules and comics. i find only a few people here balance those things pretty well. they're the ones i don't have on ignore. lol

In that case, and I'm not being sarcastic here, but in that case whenever Superman appears in a thread all of the old timers that post here, should automatically say that Superman wins without a margin of doubt, because he'll never be beaten, unless the other character controls time, and even then someway or somehow he will be able to break the time barrier, and outrace them to victory. This is despite all of the times that he or any other speedy character has found themselves in trouble. Heck we should just forget anything written in comics, and say speed-blitz FTW. Again I am not being sarcastic, but it is what it is. Right?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Did Leo write something? I have him on ignore 👆

Leo wrote something about coming around to Iron Fist massacring Puck.

Originally posted by h1a8
My scan stated that it was off the charts by ANY of the STANDARD SCIENTIFIC MEASURES. That's means it is higher than what man can measure.

Are you going to post the scan or give the issue number to 5000 being the max? Or should I report you?

Originally posted by Stoic
In that case, and I'm not being sarcastic here, but in that case whenever Superman appears in a thread all of the old timers that post here, should automatically say that Superman wins without a margin of doubt, because he'll never be beaten, unless the other character controls time, and even then someway or somehow he will be able to break the time barrier, and outrace them to victory. This is despite all of the times that he or any other speedy character has found themselves in trouble. Heck we should just forget anything written in comics, and say speed-blitz FTW. Again I am not being sarcastic, but it is what it is. Right?

essentially, yes, that is exactly right. again, there is no forum solution to this scenario other than to fall back on cis. but not sure why it should just be the old timers though. and are you calling me old?? sneer

if there is a way around the conclusion, please, enlighten me. i've tried getting around it a couple times with flash, but....hasn't happened. so if it extends to flash, it would extend to superman as well. i think the forum intent is to look at these powers in as "realistic" a manner as possible. by that i mean imagine the character real, outside of the confines of a book. give me a logical reason why someone who can fly and move and perceive and fight at light speed or faster (let's use gladiator as an example instead of superman) gets hit by someone like hulk. seriously, explain it. is glads overconfident? stupid? just trying to make it a fair fight by fighting at hulk's snail-like speed? what? or is it simply that readers wanted to see a cool fight between marvel's superman and the hulk? what makes the most sense? it's like the characters as they are portrayed in comics are ACTORS. in the forum we try and look at them as they might really be, if you understand the analogy. you have some awesome mma fighter in some bit role in a movie and he gets his a$$ kicked by the star. now remove them from the movie, what happens? do we use how the mma guy vs the star was portrayed in the movie as a gauge for how the fight would go down in a real life back alley? that's what pis does to characters. and yet people constantly fall back on the 'movie' fight and cite it as evidence of what the 'real' fight would look like.

doesn't make much sense, though i am also guilty of doing that because we don't feel comfortable saying there is no real reason hulk should ever even hit gladiator, let alone beat him in a fight. and given some of his speed feats, it is not inconceivable that superman (and certainly flash) is to someone like glads what glads is to hulk.

i do wish there was some other conclusion to come to, but i don't, and have never been able to find one. and saying all that, i'll STILL use how i feel things would go in a comic as a gauge for certain fights, though i almost almost say exactly that. /shrug

Originally posted by cdtm
Leo wrote something about coming around to Iron Fist massacring Puck.

it is as i feared--his influence is spreading. mmm

Originally posted by JBL
Well guess what?? It got measured at 5000 degrees max.

So you not going to offer the proof? Good to know.