Originally posted by janus77
I don't recall there being anything on-panel to indicate that adult Franklin was more powerful than Kid Franklin. Just a lot more experienced and self-confident.The Celestials themselves assessed Kid Franklin as having the potential to become one of them. Impressive as that is, it still doesn't mean he would be at the upper-end of their species.
Adult Franklin might have showings that I don't know of (most likely he does) but nothing I've seen makes me regard him as above their [Celestials] average.
It depends on where you put the Mad Celestials in comparison to their 616 counterparts , in terms of power alone . I think they are equal(based on their feats) , so I put Franklin as being somewhat above an average 616-Celestial(in terms of overall power) .
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
It depends on where you put the Mad Celestials in comparison to their 616 counterparts , in terms of power alone . I think they are equal(based on their feats) , so I put Franklin as being somewhat above an average 616-Celestial(in terms of overall power) .
Though, the overall point would still be that he's not beating Celestials like Tiamut, unless there's definite evidence of him exceeding the average Celestial by a good margin.
Funny thing is, AF and Galactus did about equally as well against the Mad Celestials, yet for some reason I feel that Galactus has been seriously crippled over the last few years.
Originally posted by TheGodKillerAgreed. People get stuck on this notion that Franklin=a Celestial in terms of power, which isn't necessarily the case. Granted it was stated that the Celestials "felt" Franklin was on par with themselves as a child--but that certainly doesn't mean his power is capped at Celestial-level.
It depends on where you put the Mad Celestials in comparison to their 616 counterparts , in terms of power alone . I think they are equal(based on their feats) , so I put Franklin as being somewhat above an average 616-Celestial(in terms of overall power) .
Originally posted by Galan007
Agreed. People get stuck on this notion that Franklin=a Celestial in terms of power--that's not the case. The only statement close to that is when it was mentioned that the Celestials "felt" Franklin was on par with themselves as a child. This certainly doesn't mean his power is capped at Celestial-level, though.
It seemed to me that they were pretty much trying to parent him, knowing that he would end up like one of them. No mention of being anything more than that though.
Like on True Blood... with vampire Tara and her 'mum'.
Originally posted by Galan007
^ Yes, they wanted to teach/parent/guide him. They wanted to do this because they "felt" he was on their level:
One thing that I never understood though is that "blue ball" which contained the HR-verse was eventually given to Eternity by Dr. Strange , which Eternity decided to contain within his own form .
Yet we are later shown that Ashema preserved that reality within her own body .
So what , or better still , who is it ? Eternity ? Or Ashema ?
Originally posted by janus77
Well, given their place in the scheme of things, shouldn't we take that as more or less definitive, until such time that AF busts a few 616 Celestials or something?
The thing is that adult Franklin has already reached his supposed full potential , so by default he is , at the very least as strong as a 616-Celestial , and based on his feats in #604 , he is slightly above them individually , and based on #582 , he is considerably above them(and possibly even in the same league as high-tier Celestials like Arishem and pre-Ascension Tiamut) .
Originally posted by TheGodKillerHere's the whole scene:
One thing that I never understood though is that "blue ball" which contained the HR-verse was eventually given to Eternity by Dr. Strange , which Eternity decided to contain within his own form .
Yet we are later shown that Ashema preserved that reality within her own body .So what , or better still , who is it ? Eternity ? Or Ashema ?
The HR-verse is contained within Ashema, who is contained within Eternity. In essence they amalgamated the instance you mentioned.
Originally posted by Galan007
Here's the whole scene:
The HR-verse is contained within Ashema, who is contained within Eternity. In essence they amalgamated the instance you mentioned.
Thanks for clarifying . Not to mention that now there is more on-panel evidence in favor of the idea that Eternity created the Celestials .
Originally posted by zopzop
Now wonder they started jobbing out to losers like IW! It all makes sense now. The Jobber King had a hand in their creation?
Eternity being their creator was alluded to in a Dr Strange comic and Heroes Reborn :
However , Gaiman's take seems to suggest that they are the creations of the Fulcrum aka Jack Kirby/TOAA himself . Marvel should really just get their sh!t together and leave their origin unexplained , just the way they were intended to be when Jack Kirby first conceptualized them .
Btw, who are the IW ? Infinity Watch ? And when did the Celestials job to them ?
Originally posted by janus77your just realizing this now...
I can live with that.
average/somewhat above average ... it's not an exact science so, yeah I'll concede and agree that he might indeed be somewhat above average.Though, the overall point would still be that he's not beating Celestials like Tiamut, unless there's definite evidence of him exceeding the average Celestial by a good margin.
Funny thing is, AF and Galactus did about equally as well against the Mad Celestials, yet for some reason I feel that Galactus has been seriously crippled over the last few years.
Edit: About the Galactus being crippled... and its been going of for some time now imo.
I tended to ignore the jobbing to FF stuff, as that's just bog-standard PIS.
It's the stupidity of him not simply wiping Asgard (and Odin) out of existence with a simple glance kind of thing that is pathetic.
To even allow himself to be hit by Odin, to just stand there and do nothing when the Chaos King crap went down, to be a mere piece in M.o.D. and Clyde's battle...
