Originally posted by TheGodKiller
I think that this scan seems to imply that Franklin > both Ashema AND Tiamut(individually) :
What's telling is that Tiamut is also referred as "the strongest of the host" in the very same panels .
Originally posted by janus77
dunno about that... seems to state that she's basically just a consciousness and 'dead' as far as the Celestials are concerned.
Actually it quite literally states that when Franklin held sway over the HR-verse , nothing could harm it . However , when this dominion(preserving and protecting the HR-verse) was passed onto Ashema , the Dreaming Celestial got his opportunity to act .
Basically it tells us that when Franklin was GOD of the HR-verse , nothing(not even the Dreaming Celestial) could have harmed it . But when this position(of being GOD of the HR-verse) was passed on to Ashema , the Draming Celestial got his chance to act , which he almost succeeded in doing .
Originally posted by janus77
I tended to ignore the jobbing to FF stuff, as that's just bog-standard PIS.It's the stupidity of him not simply wiping Asgard (and Odin) out of existence with a simple glance kind of thing that is pathetic.
To even allow himself to be hit by Odin, to just stand there and do nothing when the Chaos King crap went down, to be a mere piece in M.o.D. and Clyde's battle...
Technically speaking other Abstracts and Cosmic Beings like Eternity , Love , Hate , Ego etc . were also just "mere pieces/pawns" in MoD and Clyde's battle . Those guys were just that damn powerful .
Originally posted by TheGodKillerAgreed. The scan flat-out tells us that Tiamut didn't even try to usurp control over the HR realm until it was under Ashema's [weaker] control. If Tiamut could have taken it from Franklin, he surely would have.
I think that this scan seems to imply that Franklin > both Ashema AND Tiamut(individually) :
What's telling is that Tiamut is also referred as "the strongest of the host" in the very same panels .
So yeah, I also believe that the implication there is Frank>Tiamut.
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Actually it quite literally states that when Franklin held sway over the HR-verse , nothing could harm it . However , when this dominion(preserving and protecting the HR-verse) was passed onto Ashema , the Dreaming Celestial got his opportunity to act .Basically it tells us that when Franklin was GOD of the HR-verse , nothing(not even the Dreaming Celestial) could have harmed it . But when this position(of being GOD of the HR-verse) was passed on to Ashema , the Draming Celestial got his chance to act , which he almost succeeded in doing .
Also, Franklin's level of control over the HRU could just be because it is a part of his own powers that he expended to create it, whereas Ashema had to shed her powers to enter into Franklin's world and afterwards spent whatever was remaining in allowing all the other Celestials to "feel" and "grow" from her consciousness experiencing the HRU.
Originally posted by janus77
But Ashema is also said to be "dead" and just a consciousness, which should naturally have a bearing on her ability to defend the HRU from Tiamut.Also, Franklin's level of control over the HRU could just be because it is a part of his own powers that he expended to create it, whereas Ashema had to shed her powers to enter into Franklin's world and afterwards spent whatever was remaining in allowing all the other Celestials to "feel" and "grow" from her consciousness experiencing the HRU.
Ashema was referred to as "dead" not once within those panels . Go back to some of the previous pages in this thread itself , and you'll understand that Celestials(as revealed by Tiamut) can't be truly killed . You need to be a monstrously powerful being(probably HOTU-level) to actually destroy a 616-Celestial .
She was merely preserving that universe within her own body , and those panels clearly tell us that her sway over that reality was weaker than Franklin's . If she was at least as powerful as he was , she wouldn't have any problem taking complete dominion over it w/ ease , however it was weaker than Franklin's , which is what allowed Tiamut to usurp it from her .
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Btw, who are the IW ? Infinity Watch ? And when did the Celestials job to them ?
That was the beginning of the end to their greatness.
Originally posted by zopzop
Invisible Woman. That bullsh|t issue where she kills Exitar. Thanks to that "logic" ANY being that can reproduce her power can kill even the most powerful of Celestials. Super Skrull I'm looking at you!That was the beginning of the end to their greatness.
They were portrayed with dignity in Heroes Reborn . I am pretty sure that the PIS-brimming sh!t which Defalco wrote in that arc , was probably ignored as well in Heroes Reborn(if you consider the number of times Sue came face-to-face with Ashema , and didn/t even once try to use her powers against her) .
But thanks to Hickman , I guess that Hyperspace weakness will now haunt(as you yourself once said) the Celestials probably forever . Or for at least some time to come .
Originally posted by Galan007
Hyperspace-derived energy harming a Celestial is no different than Kryptonite harming Superman.It's really not that big of a deal. /shrug
There have been some instances in comics though , when Superman became immune to kryptonite .
Also Galan , are you CitizenBane on comicvine ? I ask because his debating style is somewhat similar to yours and he used this exact same reasoning that you just did for the Celestials' hyperspace-weakness .
Originally posted by TheGodKillerThose are only under very special/unique circumstances. On average, Kryptonite is lethal to Supes.
There have been some instances in comics though , when Superman became immune to kryptonite .Also Galan , are you CitizenBane on comicvine ? I ask because his debating style is somewhat similar to yours and he used this exact same reasoning that you just did for the Celestials' hyperspace-weakness .
Nope, not me. This is the only forum I participate in.
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
There have been some instances in comics though , when Superman became immune to kryptonite .Also Galan , are you CitizenBane on comicvine ? I ask because his debating style is somewhat similar to yours and he used this exact same reasoning that you just did for the Celestials' hyperspace-weakness .
If Galan was CitizenBane I'd have to start insulting him just for kicks.
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
But thanks to Hickman , I guess that Hyperspace weakness will now haunt(as you yourself once said) the Celestials probably forever . Or for at least some time to come .
Phuck the Fantastic Four and the garbage that comes out of that comic.
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
I didn't have any bad experience with him . I do hate Vance_Astro though .
lol he's annoying too. I don't know how he was allowed to become a moderator because he's been banned before and he's always insulting people. I still go on the vine sometimes though but that's just for browsing because the forums have gone downhill.
Originally posted by Marvel_Mystic
lol he's annoying too. I don't know how he was allowed to become a moderator because he's been banned before and he's always insulting people. I still go on the vine sometimes though but that's just for browsing because the forums have gone downhill.
I hate Vance_Astro because he banned me for notifying him of a DBZ thread .
And yeah I agree that the forums are going downhill , because from what I saw when last I lurked there , they are populated by retards who know nothing about comics , and often take stuff from KMC's Respect Threads to use in debates , and still demean and insult our boards .
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Actually it quite literally states that when Franklin held sway over the HR-verse , nothing could harm it . However , when this dominion(preserving and protecting the HR-verse) was passed onto Ashema , the Dreaming Celestial got his opportunity to act .Basically it tells us that when Franklin was GOD of the HR-verse , nothing(not even the Dreaming Celestial) could have harmed it . But when this position(of being GOD of the HR-verse) was passed on to Ashema , the Draming Celestial got his chance to act , which he almost succeeded in doing .
A Tiamut that was still imprisoned and weakened inside his prison IIRC.
