Best travelling speed feats

Originally posted by abhilegend
Well you and ODG both have mde it clear that your words supersedes writer's words. So yeah, you do said that.
How does that even makes sense? Did Brainiac erase future memories of his travel? That's a fat loss of BS to save face. You said he was just teleported to Saturn. The writer flat out contradicted it, ODG fell back to his routine "my word is superior to writer's word because of this" and you are here trying to save face in the most pathetic way possible.

And why wouldn't we take that as truth? After all, Brainiac only erased his memories of the dimension.

Simply pathetic at this point. And what comic showed he was teleported near Saturn as you and your buddy Dumbo proudly claimed? Or better where he spent 60 days in a dimension where time didn't pass?
I knew Thor bags are really pathetic when it came to accepting Superman's feats, this just took it to whole new level of pettiness. You know what, nobody needs your permission to validate this feat. You don't or can't accept it because you have difficulty taking what's on panel without doubting it, fine. Don't use your doubts as facts. And remain butthurt.

We actually don't fully know the extent of what of his memories remained intact. But we do know it's extensive... "will ensure you forget everything you saw and experienced".

Yeah going by what actually happened on panel, it's actually the clearest way it can be interpreted.

And you are very transparent at this point with you clinging to the Saturn scene. Guess it's the only thing you can harp on without actually addressing anything. Good job. 👆

Originally posted by -Pr-
...The **** is this thread even about anymore?

But yeah, Superman's feat is invalid. Somehow.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
A statement induced from Twitter of all places. You should be glad that this is even being entertained.. facepalm

We actually don't fully know the extent of what of his memories remained intact. But we do know it's extensive... "will ensure you forget everything you saw and experienced".

Yeah going by what actually happened on panel, it's actually the clearest way it can be interpreted.

And you are very transparent at this point with you clinging to the Saturn scene. Guess it's the only thing you can harp on without actually addressing anything. Good job. 👆

Hahaha, you are just so cute when you try to save face. The sheer butthurt coming from you is just amazing.

Or on the days spent in a dimension where time didn't pass. That was just typical you.

Guys why do you even entertain those dumb trolls? Ignore them, their "superior to writers" opinion is as important and valid as a fallen bag of rice in china. The facts are clear and socks/trolls like those two won't last long here if you put them on ignore.

Regardless of how Celey, ODG or Abhi feel on this, none of them are trolls.

They seem pretty genuine.

Originally posted by krisblaze
Regardless of how Celey, ODG or Abhi feel on this, none of them are trolls.

They seem pretty genuine.

I would call them anything but genuine or honest, truth be told. Their lowball and trolling intentions are obvious, the best way to handle such creatures is the ignore button.

sneer

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
A statement induced from Twitter of all places. You should be glad that this is even being entertained.. facepalm

We actually don't fully know the extent of what of his memories remained intact. But we do know it's extensive... "will ensure you forget everything you saw and experienced".

Yeah going by what actually happened on panel, it's actually the clearest way it can be interpreted.

And you are very transparent at this point with you clinging to the Saturn scene. Guess it's the only thing you can harp on without actually addressing anything. Good job. 👆

IOW writers don't know what there intent was, but you do.

How much does DC/Marvel pay you again?

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
IOW writers don't know what there intent was, but you do.

How much does DC/Marvel pay you again?

I don't really see the point of debating the whole disagreement over and over. Two opinions, one fact. What else is there to discuss. No one but the usual suspects came to low ball and say him flying through Saturn was because he was teleported there via blackhole/vortex. Then when it's clarified we still have to debate about it?

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
I don't really see the point of debating the whole disagreement over and over. Two opinions, one fact. What else is there to discuss. No one but the usual suspects came to low ball and say him flying through Saturn was because he was teleported there via blackhole/vortex. Then when it's clarified we still have to debate about it?

QFT

This doesn't contradict any of Superman's past travel feats either.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Apparently words on panel or writer's words don't matter. Only what ODG declare as truth is truth even though it is nowhere stated in the comic. First it was the imaginary black hole and now superman was teleported near Saturn even though both the writer and comic flat out contradicts it.

But yeah, Superman's feat is invalid. Somehow.

I was asking about the feat(s), not your feud.

Good feat actually.
http://s1134.photobucket.com/user/s...02_10a.jpg.html

Near light speed off of an attempted cheapshot. Glad you brought that up.

While it being a simple low feat would suffice, he was just reflected a beam that was powered by all the Infinity Gems and a sun that was draining Galactus.

He also really made no effort to escape as he blatantly said he was trying to make sure the Elders perished in the black hole.

Before I address this, here's In-Betweener flying really fast out of a black hole:
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums..._v3_017_08b.jpg

Now, again, he used hyperspace to travel from Earth to a random place in space where a giant ass black hole was in seconds. He uses hyperspace. Never went against that. And the near light was a threat that he would drag an Elder to his death while traveling at those speeds.

However, he did not fail to escape a black hole. In fact he says he needs all his speed to break through the other side:
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums..._v3_015_07b.jpg

And it was reinforced repeatedly that Surfer was the only one who could get outside the black hole:
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums..._v3_016_03a.jpg
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums..._v3_016_04a.jpg
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums..._v3_016_05a.jpg
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums..._v3_016_09a.jpg

And I already know what you're going to say, but you know why Surfer needed Chaos and Order's power to get on the other side of the black hole? Because In-Betweener sealed off travel through it to everyone present but himself:
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums..._v3_017_04a.jpg

So yeah, good lowballing attempt there.

There is one that I want to point out specifically though that is not here, and I point it out because it wasn't stated anywhere but is pretty much irrefutable, and also breaks down several pieces of your arguments

Reed and Surfer just flying on his board.
http://i355.photobucket.com/albums/r453/Stigmonus/Issue%2016-1.jpg

And when it switches perspectives, you see the telltale signs of FTL/Hyperspace travel.
http://i355.photobucket.com/albums/r453/Stigmonus/Issue%2016-2.jpg

So they're seen just cruising at one angle. In the other angle it's that artists array of colors that details hyperspace/ftl sometimes, then back to the other angle of just cruising.

But I'll bring it all full circle later.

Let's see how long 4 cycles takes:
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums..._v3_031_07b.jpg
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums..._v3_031_08b.jpg
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums..._v3_031_09a.jpg

3 pages of dialogue. What is that, like 2 minutes? 4 cycles of 30 seconds?

But to explain. Surfer starts hyperspace. It says meanwhile. Then we get the scans I posted. Then it flips back to Surfer finding Strange. What I posted was how long four cycles was.

4 cycles.

"the story"
No, it wasn't the story, it was some people who knew basically nothing about Surfer trying to pin their hopes on him. Here's from the exact same issue:
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums..._v3_111_09a.jpg

So unless it took billions of years for him to do that...

But wait, there's more. In a later issue, Surfer did actually accomplish visiting everything in 616:
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums..._v3_142_05a.jpg

We're actually given a timeframe oh how long it took to visit every corner and every star in the universe too.
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums..._v3_142_15a.jpg

Centuries. Not billions of billions of years. I could post some more flight from that arc too where Surfer is just zipping through the macroverse observing everything at unbelievable speeds, but you'd just write that off as hyperspace.

So no, let's not listen to someone who knows next to nothing about Surfer's power on his speed. Funny thing is, you can't even use the hyperspace excuse since it blatantly said coordinates were useless, and them not factoring in hyperspace would show an ignorance on their part of his power that's law in the Marvel universe.

When you argue yourself into a corner, no?

Do you just not understand what was going on or something? You make this mistake right below too. Surfer wasn't traversing hyperspace or across the universe. Surfer was trying to enter the cosmic swell to travel to another universe.
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums..._v3_114_06a.jpg

As for the Macroverse. Are you sure you read that story? Surfer flew around in the space of the Macroverse for a couple panels, merged with the consciousness of a planet, then sat on a beach, then decided it was time to go home, found Sama D again, and mentioned that Sama D has been exploring the Macroverse for centuries and that he should come with him back to the regular universe. That measure of time had nothing to do with Surfer.
Comprehension fail again.

As for his casual mention of having visited every part of his own universe previously, we know this is only hyperbole, as pretty much every arc in the entire volume involves him visiting places he's never been before and encountering beings and races he's never met before.

So you could claim it, I guess, but the previous hundred 140 issues in this volume alone don't support it.

You don't even know what you're talking about. That had absolutely nothing to do with hyperspace. It got spit out from the cosmic swell, which was an untraversable basically wave connected two universes that only one being has ever crossed before.

And even if it was hyperspace, it wouldn't matter if it was spit out or if it originated from it if it wasn't actually in hyperspace at the time. If it's traveling faster than light in normal space, it's breaking your rules. It doesn't matter if it came out of hyperspace and was moving at 100 times the speed of light as long as it wasn't actually in hyperspace at the time.

Simple enough really.

I've already posted scans of it anyway... which you completely ignored.

No it didn't. It said he uses hyperspace. It said Red Shift uses hyperspace. It never said he was reliant on it for speed. He was using it to travel instantly across vast reaches of space in that series.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/103530/2768302-5.png

And then he later escaped the black hole via a hole opened in space while he was inside the black hole and it made note that it should have killed him. And he escaped that black hole via turning really small with his board.

Surfer outflew an energy blast that encompassed three star systems and didn't show signs of slowing night instantly in Annihilation.

Also, I don't even know what you're talking about either.
Here's some bios from Annihilation:
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums...Surfer4-026.jpg
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums...dawg/img026.jpg
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums...Surfer1-026.jpg

Though it's good you brought up hyperspace because hyperspace was shown everytime it was used. And it had a distinctive effect.
Here's Surfer doing it. Note it was a portal here:
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums...20page%2015.jpg

A couple ships.
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums...20page%2010.jpg
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums...20page%2019.jpg

Now here's Surfer flying light years in seconds with no hyperspace portal:
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums...Surfer1-014.jpg
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums...Surfer1-015.jpg

And just for good measure, here's Stardust's natural body being lightspeed, and the power cosmic ascending it. And to show it wasn't hyperspace, here's some beings that were in normal space in the void between galaxies that he ran into:
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums...nhog_01_028.jpg
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums...nhog_01_029.jpg

Why would you even direct me to Annihilation?

Stardust accelerated to near light speed, then used power cosmic to shift to hyperspace and launched into a portal. How you can go through all these issues of seeing Surfer do the exact same thing a 100 times with and still believe that wasn't hyperspace is beyond me. Comprehension fail.

So Surfer is seen going faster than light in yet another story involving massive use of hyperspace by tons of characters and even ships? Are you keeping track?

Another thing to note is that he against senses a ripple in hyperspace while being outside out it. Which goes back to my previous post that you abandoned.
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums...evourer2-07.jpg

Now I'm getting lazy, and with my fever holding me down, unable to stay at the computer for any length of time required to rip through all your nonsense. I'm going to address pretty much all of the rest of it quick succession here. . It's just too darn tedius when I can barely be asked to sit upright to sit here and do all the [ quote ] [unquote] and largely reposting the same scans each of us has provided and writing the dozens of ways you're misinterpretating them as I did for the first half of this.

Not only was hyperspace being introduced for the launch of the third volume of Silver Surfer, a polarizing moment in his history and had effect and mention or useage across pretty much every arc and appearance he has since been in, instead of becoming -less- frequently, the concepts became -more- frequent.

Heralds who have been introduced since the end of Surfer's third volume like Red Shift and Stardust have also stated or been stated to traverse massive distances via hyperspace actually in Red Shift's case it's because he both flies with hyperspace speeds and also tears open space and steps through it sort of like Blink's portals, but Stardust has explicitly stated the Power Cosmic pushes him/her into hyperspace as I already covered.

Characters like Ego who used to be written to plainly to move faster than light as well as being established as far more powerful than the Surfer is also written as accessing hyperspace in modern stories like that Astonishing Thor where the Asgardian himself makes a statement to the effect that Ego would need access to hyperspace to travel from the Black Galaxy to the Milky Way.

The same is true for Nova, Quasar [Wendel and Phyla] and many others. In the last couple handfuls of years, there have been characters like Genis-Vell who are vastly more powerful than the Surfer, and even those guys now are written using hyperspace to travel faster-than-light.

The idea that you blatantly ignore the massive amount of evidence that even you are providing in these threads -- though largely because I mentioned them and you ran to grab scans in some effort that because you're providing links and misinterpreting scans that it somehow gives more credence to your rather baseless line of thought. A complete divorce of the association that has been part of his character both in comics and bios since the 80s, [and before that during Stan Lee's time writing him as well!]. That when not only nearly every other cosmic character in the Marvel universe, including those more powerful or less powerful than the Surfer, as well as his fellow Heralds who have his near - identical powerset to one degree or another have been shown to rely on hyperspace for FTL travel in modern continuity.

As for Thor, you'd probably have to go back 20 years or more to find a quality unamped speed feat that didn't involve his hammer flying him or him swinging or throwing it [which has magic access to hyperspace speeds!].
Question, where would -you- suggest Thor's actual movement is?
I mean Thor had the one feat where he ran from one spot in a city across the city 'in a heartbeat', which is what, a handful of times mach speed, but shit, how long ago was that even?
Then again, I'm no super-expert on Thor, either.
I'd refer to OneDumb or Rage on those matters, because I know to concede that they're out of my depth concerning that character, just as I'm out of yours when concerning most anything comic related.
Outside of whirling his hammer around and perhaps reaction time, I never took him to be anywhere near someone like The Flash.

Thanos' powergrid speed is because of his chair.
Just as Thor's is because of his hammer.
Just as Ghost Rider's is because of his bike.
Just as Surfer's is because of his board.
Just as others are because of vehicles or teleportation.

The Sentry bio it seems that his grid was from his first appearance into the modern continuity before he built up feats and hadn't changed with updated OHOTMU yet.

I'm aware of how Runner's time gem worked, I'm also aware that what I wrote was word for word from that bio. Time gem or no, once he crossed lightspeed he was accessing hyperspace where speed of light is no longer the limit on velocity.

For your shitty Star Dancer analogy - yes, you can choose to jog and that doesn't mean you can't run, but when you do run, you're running in hyperspace.

As for being knocked into hyperspace/ftl speed? Yes, it happens just as easily as someone being carried or a ship being pushed into hyperspace by a character or thrusters.

But all of this in italics is beside the point, isn't it? It's just me laughing following you off on all your ridiculous tangents because it's so easy to poke holes in your debate and seeing what you come up with next all while claiming I'm not addressing every nonsensicle tangent. And you while you try to rebuttal these, and show more scans of people using hyperspace you've completely missed the bulk of my argument. Thus, proving nothing.

Given that you have already demonstrated an inability to read things that have already been said in this thread, and your failure to interpret several of my scans, and your own as well. I will spell it out for you:

You have completely failed at the task I put before you. You need to provide evidence that hyperspace was not used, not that lightspeed was achieved or surpassed. We know it can be surpassed, but you enter hyperspace doing it[shown on panel and in bios many times already], which may or may not be a portal/warp[shown on panel several times already]. So far all you have done is add leverage by showing everyone the exact instances I was talking about -- and several I hadn't even got to yet!

You have not produced a scrap of evidence that conforms to the constant upswing in frequency of hyperspace appearing in concept in Surfer's/Marvel's books, regarding both warps and FTL being hyperspace starting back the 80s.

If we were to break down the frequency appearance of hyperspace being stated or blatantly used in the same stories as other faster than light feats, chronologically story arc by story arc across Surfer and these types of characters, from the introduction of these concepts forward you would see that the position that these ideas are separable from the feats is completely indefensible. And your insistence that there must be something that states explicitly and unambiguously that Surfer and many others relies on hyperspace to move FTL on every single panel of flying in modern continuity is laughably akin to a divorce of knowledge in saying that Wolverine is still as durable as he was back in the 70's when ninjas could knock him unconscious with fists to his head.

edit.

With all that said, you can pretend to tear it all apart and with nothing of substance to begin to prove that ftl travel and hyperspace are not one in the same in a universe where this has become more and more and more clear if you'd like to.

I dunno if you're a need the last word guy.

But I bow out here.[Though I may stay in the thread and enter this Superman debate shortly...]

There is literally nothing left besides showing more and more scans of hyperspace ftl travel consuming all the stories and characters with it's capabilities. What else can be done to show that this was indeed a status quo change at Marvel since it's reintroduction?
Do I need panels confirming after you hit lightspeed you enter hyperspace?
Check.
Do you need OHOTMU definition of it?
Check.
Bios?
Check.
Do we have proof of separation between ftl speed and wormhole jump being on panel as separate concepts under hyperspace?
Check.
And did this trend grow across all Surfer's peers [and those higher and lower] with faster than light travel?
Check.

Not one single piece of evidence in the thread has been brought up that proves a separation of concepts but both bios and scans that keep mounting and mounting keep checking into the thread that continue to fit my model, while we get farther and farther from yours.

I have some other debates I'd like to jump in on soon as feel better.

Originally posted by Galan007
What this thread needs about now are cheese calcs... Lots of cheese calcs. 👆

Is Phil dead?

Originally posted by Juntai
you can pretend to tear it all apart