No worries.
But just one thing for you to think about Arhael..
If the Anakin who tooled Dooku was Kenobi's equal, then why couldn't/didn't Count Dooku just Force Choke Anakin like he did to Kenobi, instead of getting his hands chopped off??
I know we've reached an Impasse, but it's just food for thought for you.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
No worries.But just one thing for you to think about Arhael..
If the Anakin who tooled Dooku was Kenobi's equal, then why couldn't/didn't Count Dooku just Force Choke Anakin like he did to Kenobi, instead of getting his hands chopped off??
I know we've reached an Impasse, but it's just food for thought for you.
He didn't want to kill Anakin.
No worries.But just one thing for you to think about Arhael..
If the Anakin who tooled Dooku was Kenobi's equal, then why couldn't/didn't Count Dooku just Force Choke Anakin like he did to Kenobi, instead of getting his hands chopped off??
I know we've reached an Impasse, but it's just food for thought for you.
As for TK I would give two interpretions.
In film their direct TK contest was draw, which is very strange considering Anakin's superior power comined with rage level. Either Kenobi was driven beyond limits due to circumstances or Anakin simply wasn't, yet, very skilled with offensive TK.
But in book everything makes sense. Anakin Force blasts Kenobi and "he is half stunned" and saves his ass only by subtle manipulation on Anakin's proesthetic arm.
Also, Dooku still could possibly handle Anakin with TK but it wasn't his goal. But in book by the time he realised how badly he underestimated Anakin, he is too tired to try anything like that.
Thanks for feeding! 😄
Originally posted by Jedi MomThat's not about kill. TK is nowhere near as lethal as lightsaber. By engaging Anakin in combat there was much higher chance of inflicting serious or even lethal damage to him.
He didn't want to kill Anakin.
His aim was to kill Kenobi, yet, engaging him with lightsaber, while TK handling Anakin would be plain fail.
Because of Kenobi's defencive style it would be nearly impossible to out duel him and would be way too long. At the same time Anakin is too powerful to be handled by TK, he would keep coming or resist it entirely like in CW.
He chose to fight Anakin because he is not skilled enough to defeat him outright and Kenobi is much more vulnerable to TK. So while fighting Anakin, Dooku Force blasted Kenobi, then delayed with droids and finally Force choked him. Clearly Dooku excels in tactics. He knows that one is strong with lightsaber but weak in the Force but another is strong in the Force but weak with lightsaber.
Originally posted by Arhael
The answer is rather obvious - superior power gives superior Force defences.
And I was talking about Kenobi as equal only in terms of combat. He matched his speed and strength. And because he is so less powerful, I would say that he is more talented/skilled fencer.As for TK I would give two interpretions.
In film their direct TK contest was draw, which is very strange considering Anakin's superior power comined with rage level. Either Kenobi was driven beyond limits due to circumstances or Anakin simply wasn't, yet, very skilled with offensive TK.
But in book everything makes sense. Anakin Force blasts Kenobi and "he is half stunned" and saves his ass only by subtle manipulation on Anakin's proesthetic arm.Also, Dooku still could possibly handle Anakin with TK but it wasn't his goal. But in book by the time he realised how badly he underestimated Anakin, he is too tired to try anything like that.
Thanks for feeding! 😄
If the Anakin who defeated Dooku was the same Anakin who fought Obi-Wan (in terms of power and competency) then he was equal to Obi-Wan in the Force. They stalemated their force push contest, and they both went flying back equally. So there force attack and defenses were on the same level.
I.e. A level way beyond Count Dooku's, which then would not make sense as to why Dooku lost to Anakin when he was clearly able to handle Obi-Wan so ridiculously easily.
You know you actually made a good point. We both argued biased towards the one we support but I now have third interpretation. Kenobi and Dooku in sabers are more or less equal. Dooku's TK was superior than both of them. And Anakin's TK even weaker than Kenobi's. By getting enraged he equaled Dooku in combat but couldn't overpower him, however, he utilized grappling technique which Dooku as pure fencer simply couldn't counter. Similarly by getting enraged he equaled Kenobi both in combat and TK but here knowledge about each other come into play. Unlike Dooku Kenobi apart from fencing is skilled unarmed combatant, so when it came to grappling Anakin couldn't win him.
Another theory is that Kenobi's combat and TK was even shittier than Anakin's but fear for Padme's life gave Kenobi immense power and purpose to equal even enraged Anakin.
As compromise you can choose second theory and I will stick with first one. 😉
@Arhael
All of your three theories have some nice points. But they have bad points either.
I like this one:
The answer is rather obvious - superior power gives superior Force defences.
Or this one...
In film their direct TK contest was draw, which is very strange considering Anakin's superior power comined with rage level. Either Kenobi was driven beyond limits due to circumstances or Anakin simply wasn't, yet, very skilled with offensive TK.
My interpretation is similar. And i think, that Anakin and Obi-Wan - as a jedi - were better at defensive force powers. So maybe Anakin's offensive push was a little worse then Kenobi's defensive.
I've also agree with that:
By getting enraged he equaled Dooku in combat but couldn't overpower him, however, he utilized grappling technique which Dooku as pure fencer simply couldn't counter.
Unlike Dooku Kenobi apart from fencing is skilled unarmed combatant, so when it came to grappling Anakin couldn't win him.
Anyway, you should accepted just one fact: Kenobi was'nt as skilled swordsman as Dooku and Anakin.
He defeated Anakin not becouse of his superior skill, but becouse of his inteligence and calm. They (Anakin and Obi-Wan) perfectly knows each other, but Anakin's state of mind gives this advantage to Obi-Wan. Obi-Wan was also Soresu master, which maybe was the best form, to counter Anakin's powerful attacks.
He defeated Anakin not becouse of his superior skill, but becouse of his inteligence and calm. They (Anakin and Obi-Wan) perfectly knows each other, but Anakin's state of mind gives this advantage to Obi-Wan. Obi-Wan was also Soresu master, which maybe was the best form, to counter Anakin's powerful attacks.
I, also, have another observation. Normally Kenobi doesn't look like he takes things seriously. He is too smug, relaxed and overconfident. Just look at his fight with Ventress, he nearly got killed cos of his stupidity. And that phrase to Palpatine in RotS: "The Sith Lords are our specialty! disgust". It just obviates that he gonna get pawned for his arrogance. Maybe we simply see him taking matters seriously at last. In any case I don't really care anymore. I simply believe that, if Dooku doesn't use on him TK, it will take him ages to penetrate Kenobi's defenses, which for me is the same as neither is better.
Originally posted by Zett
My interpretation is similar. And i think, that Anakin and Obi-Wan - as a jedi - were better at defensive force powers. So maybe Anakin's offensive push was a little worse then Kenobi's defensive.
Except this: "OBI-WAN puts out his hand to use the Force to push ANAKIN away. ANAKIN puts out his hand to block OBI-WAN."
-STAR WARS EPISODE 3: REVENGE OF THE SITH SCRIPT
George Lucas
^^^^^^G-Canon.
Obi Wan was clearly the one attempting the Force Push, while Anakin was blocking/attempting to block Kenobi from doing so.
Originally posted by ArhaelI, also, have another observation. Normally Kenobi doesn't look like he takes things seriously. He is too smug, relaxed and overconfident. Just look at his fight with Ventress, he nearly got killed cos of his stupidity. And that phrase to Palpatine in RotS: "The Sith Lords are our specialty! disgust". It just obviates that he gonna get pawned for his arrogance. Maybe we simply see him taking matters seriously at last.
You might be right about Ventress, he seems to have a soft spot for her.
But I seriously doubt he didn't take guys like Count Dooku, CW Darth Maul, Savage Opress seriously.
He's also not known for being arrogant. I just think it's his style to act calm like there's nothing to worry about.
Originally posted by Arhael
In any case I don't really care anymore. I simply believe that, if Dooku doesn't use on him TK, it will take him ages to penetrate Kenobi's defenses, which for me is the same as neither is better.
Well at least you agree it would be a good sword fight now (which I never disputed, I just think Dooku would win).
The impression you were giving before was you think Obi-Wan would beat Dooku as badly as Anakin did, just because Obi-Wan beat Anakin.
But A>B>C arguments like that rarely work. And less so when someone as unpredictable as Anakin is involved.
Originally posted by Jinsoku Takai
Except this: "OBI-WAN puts out his hand to use the Force to push ANAKIN away. ANAKIN puts out his hand to block OBI-WAN."-STAR WARS EPISODE 3: REVENGE OF THE SITH SCRIPT
George Lucas
^^^^^^G-Canon.
Obi Wan was clearly the one attempting the Force Push, while Anakin was blocking/attempting to block Kenobi from doing so.
👆
The impression you were giving before was you think Obi-Wan would beat Dooku as badly as Anakin did, just because Obi-Wan beat Anakin.
In reality even if Dooku is above in lightsabers and his lightsaber skill is indeed more versatile. But during fight there are so many variables that even weaker one could win. And I hope you will agree that Dooku's assumed superiority would be minimal enough to assume that Kenobi has at least small chance of winning.
Originally posted by Arhael
Obviously I would be biased and arguing that Kenobi is above Dooku in lightsabers as you did the same with Dooku. 😄In reality even if Dooku is above in lightsabers and his lightsaber skill is indeed more versatile. But during fight there are so many variables that even weaker one could win. And I hope you will agree that Dooku's assumed superiority would be minimal enough to assume that Kenobi has at least small chance of winning.
Yeah I suppose seen as they seem to be making CW Obi-Wan almost a match for CW Maul then I doubt Count Dooku would be miles ahead of ROTS Obi-Wan (in Sabers).