Wonder Woman is NOT a high herald at average. She is only a HH if you take her many fights with superman where he is mentally handicapped as proof, in their only fight in their right mind he treated her like a child throwing a tantrum while not even serious and when their positions got reversed oneshotted her while not even attacking her. Take her stalemate with a weakening, mind controlled captain marvel, stalemating Power girl, losing record against etrigan, pimpslapped away by Lobo etc make her a borderline high herald, not a high herald.
Originally posted by Q99
Occupy him, not beat him. Iron Man managed that, he spent a fair amount of time on some of the teams he took down, and such.
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You are thinking of Merely WWH. This thread is World breaker hulk ala the one that appeared in HOTM who wrecked the DArk dimension, and turned to ash Armcheddon ( who is himself likely superior to anybody on that team), Wendigo, Bi beast, a hugely amped fing fang foom, and the entire race of mindless ones (whose combined power was too much for Umar in her own dimension to even survive let alone defeat)...all as side effects from the shockwave from a collision he had with red she hulk miles in the air (and came out fine btw). Not to mention no selling the combined attacks of Wendigo, Armcheddon, and Bi beast. He was exponentially stronger ( and more durable )t han even WWH and barring any esoteric attacks the team could muster is physically way beyond the team.
Add in Thanos and it becomes a massacre.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Wonder Woman is NOT a high herald at average. She is only a HH if you take her many fights with superman where he is mentally handicapped as proof, in their only fight in their right mind he treated her like a child throwing a tantrum while not even serious and when their positions got reversed oneshotted her while not even attacking her. Take her stalemate with a weakening, mind controlled captain marvel, stalemating Power girl, losing record against etrigan, pimpslapped away by Lobo etc make her a borderline high herald, not a high herald.
I disagree. Wondy have showings of doing good against people Superman struggled to handle/defeat. Example would be Amazo. Wonder Woman had a long and extended fight against him and actually aided in defeating him whereas Superman got 2 paneled twice by this same villain. Konvikt had enough power to drop Superman with one hit and Wonder Woman was capable of holding her own in a long extended fight.
The same can be said about Superman, he have instances of outshining her as well, more consistently but the time she's done it proves she is within his tier which is the point.
Originally posted by Q99
I'm of the opinion that while a single herald cannot mount a suitable offensive, a combined assault from multiple are a threat.I also know there's not exactly consensus on that around here. If one takes the view that a collection of heralds isn't enough, then yes, Thanos'll win.
Like you say, Norrin is the penultimate herald. Or, arguably, ultimate, his feats are I think the best of any HH.
Are you arguing that someone can't be high herald without being interchangeable with Surfer? Because I don't think Superman or Thor qualify in that (yes, Thor can fight Surfer well, but he has a specific energy-absorption power that makes him well suited for the task. Similarly WW can shut down spellcasters with her lasso's anti-magic ability, even teambuster-level types. Also, the defense of her bracers means she'd do better than quite a few other High Heralds, like Cyborg Superman, Spartan 3.0, and such).
When someone regularly, consistently delivers near-even fights against one of the stronger high heralds, they're high herald.
It also doesn't hurt that like, half her rogue's gallery is trans or higher (Ares, Circe, Genocide, Queen of Fables. Couple other gods in there too).
I don't consider those fights near even. Who do you think Diana could split even with outta the high herald class? Forum environ, cis off, best of abilities type bout.
Originally posted by carver9
Wonder Woman IS High Herald, can't see why people are arguing against this.
Originally posted by carver9
Street...Black Panther or Batman
Low Meta...Spiderman or Wolverine
Mid Meta...Colossus
High Meta...Star Fire or Ms. Martian...I would say Ms. Marvel
Low Herald...Terrax
Mid Herald...Martian Manhunter or Wonder Woman or Nova Prime
High Herald...Surfer
Low trans...WWH, or OF Thor
Mid trans... Thanos
High trans KT Thor
Skyfather...Odin or Zeus
Originally posted by Sin I AM
Because she doesn't have it. Norrin is the penultimate herald right.
No. That would be Superman. The SS can't beat Thor. Now imagine him fighter a more durable, stronger and faster guy.
Originally posted by Sin I AMDo you see standard Diana as a peer? All things being equal would you consider them interchangeable?
She is stronger than the SS, more durable, and has better combat speed. Her lasso can stop Thanos or Hulk in their tracks.
Originally posted by Q99Like you say, Norrin is the penultimate herald. Or, arguably, ultimate, his feats are I think the best of any HH.
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Like powering the Maggedon Warhead, lifting infinite weight, surviving an explosion equal to 52 supernovas while weakened, rebuilding a city in seconds, keeping up with the Flash, fastballing mini black holes, fixing a tear in reality with pure strength, slowing down eternity, punches that shatter time and space....oh wait that's Superman.
Originally posted by Sin I AM
I don't consider those fights near even. Who do you think Diana could split even with outta the high herald class? Forum environ, cis off, best of abilities type bout.
I was using those people as the pinnacle of each tier. I wouldn't consider WW Superman/Thor/ or Surfers equal. These 3 imo are the heart of the high Herald tier (current Thor is low meta..lol). Even though I consider WW a high Herald, I would put her at the bottom of the list...the lowest of the high Heralds and I'm basing this off of her durability. If I had to name a person for the upper tier mid Herald class, she would be it. I think she is so high up in the mid Herald tier that I would consider her a low end high Herald...hell, I could see her giving Surfer a fight better than most if ANY high Herald...she is just that good.
I would rank WW in the upper tier mid Herald to low tier high Herald.
Thanos and Hulk will have trouble hitting Maxima, Wonder Woman, and Super Girl. Sersi can encase the Hulk in a shell of adamantium and the women can battle Thanos alone. He's not taking on 6 heralds at once. The Lasso can be a game changer here. It all depends on how the women fight. Also, who's in the last picture, I can't view it.
Originally posted by Sin I AM
What has she done to make her hh? a mind controlled Clark/ holding back Clark don't count
You have to look at her fts. Hell, she lasted longer against Doomsday than Orion did and everyone here considers him a high Herald. She has taken it to the JLA while blind...defeated Zoom while blind, held her own against Clark on numerous of occasions, Captain Marvel, this doesn't include her fight against Ares, a freaking skyfather. She has defeated Amazo and actually had the advantage over him in a prolong fist fight, the same Amazo that WRECKED the JLA. She put them hands on Konvikt. The list is long. Diana IS a high Herald.
Originally posted by carver9
You have to look at her fts. Hell, she lasted longer against Doomsday than Orion did and everyone here considers him a high Herald. She has taken it to the JLA while blind...defeated Zoom while blind, held her own against Clark on numerous of occasions, Captain Marvel, this doesn't include her fight against Ares, a freaking skyfather. She has defeated Amazo and actually had the advantage over him in a prolong fist fight, the same Amazo that WRECKED the JLA. She put them hands on Konvikt. The list is long. Diana IS a high Herald.
This is the second time in 2 days I agree with Carver. WTH is going on here?
Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
No. That would be Superman. The SS can't beat Thor. Now imagine him fighter a more durable, stronger and faster.She is stronger than the SS, more durable, and has better combat speed. Her lasso can stop Thanos or Hulk in their tracks.
Your insinuating alot here. Prove she is stronger than Norrin, no way in Hell she is more durable when bullets affect her, and ss is not a brawler he's a blaster. It sounds like your saying she can take him in a fight.
Also ss can best Clark for the maj every time...your point?
Originally posted by carver9
I disagree. Wondy have showings of doing good against people Superman struggled to handle/defeat. Example would be Amazo. Wonder Woman had a long and extended fight against him and actually aided in defeating him whereas Superman got 2 paneled twice by this same villain. Konvikt had enough power to drop Superman with one hit and Wonder Woman was capable of holding her own in a long extended fight.The same can be said about Superman, he have instances of outshining her as well, more consistently but the time she's done it proves she is within his tier which is the point.