Sasuke (current) vs. Goku (at any stage)

Originally posted by NewGuy01
It seems pretty unclear in the manga, but in the anime it seems very much like the larger crater was from the Biju bomb used to try and destroy the Mazou, and the smaller one was from something else--Perhaps the Juubi's point blank Biju bomb?

Which point blank Bijuu bombs? Two were interrupted (Bee and Minato), and the third was contained by Tobi's barrier.

http://www.mangastream.to/naruto-chapter-614-page-11.html
That large crater with the trench going out of it is the crater that was caused by that Bijuu bomb, and there is no water next to it. It's the same one the Juubi barrier was in. Barrier scan #2 shows us the crater after Tobi's Bijuu bombs.

But from that last scan, it looks like the large crater was already present prior to the Tree form of the Juubi, so maybe it was the Tenpenchi that did it. The aftermath shown in this scan suggests as much.

If that's the case, the scales really don't make much sense tbh.

Also, I was referring to the one contained by the barrier btw.

That just seems ridiculous to me, honestly. By my calculations, that means there would have to have been about 400 miles between the Shinju and the Valley of the End--That's just insane. (Would it even be possible to see the stump of the Shinju if it were say, 5 miles high, from that distance?)

Also, not saying I'm absolutely right, but my calcs point towards each of the Shinju's roots being about a mile high, no where near a towering 63 kilometers.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
If that's the case, the scales really don't make much sense tbh.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
That just seems ridiculous to me, honestly. By my calculations, that means there would have to have been about 400 miles between the Shinju and the Valley of the End--That's just insane. (Would it even be possible to see the stump of the Shinju if it were say, 5 miles high, from that distance?)

Kishi was very inconsistent with the size of the Juubi Tree's stump and the distances.

The Kages were going towards the Juubi Tree from a desert in the outskirts of the Land of Lightning (where they fought Madara). The Tree itself was somewhere further within the Land of Lightning's interior, and when the Kages were traveling towards it, the Tree looked like a pencil.

VotE is between the Land of Fire and the Land of Sound. The stump looks like it is a few miles away. So yeah, Kishi f***ed up somehow.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Also, not saying I'm absolutely right, but my calcs point towards each of the Shinju's roots being about a mile high, no where near a towering 63 kilometers.

Even without scaling, you'd have to completely ignore logic, common sense, and Naruto-verse rules to say those roots are 63 kilometers in diameter (that's ~8 times the height of Mt. Everest).

How'd you get a mile?

Hey NewGuy.

How'd you get a mile?

Oh, I just did some rough estimations--Nothing exact, with some assumption littered within.

I had just felt that using Naruto's Biju Bomb in the Pain Arc and using that as a basis for the others like I'd seen some calc's do was an imprecise way of going about things--And I think I was right.

For one thing, the whole comparison between the Forest of Death and the blast seems very off--which is understandable, considering that you're trying to compare something that's not present. By scaling with the Hokage Monument, I found that the blast was only a little over a kilometer in diameter.

Secondly, the blasts that the other Biju put out (The ones Naruto deflected) weren't even half as powerful, they were only slightly larger than the mountains they destroyed. These mountains were relatively large, and the closest measurable match to them I could find was during the Hashirama vs Madara battle--And by measuring their bases using the Perfect Susano'o as a scale, I came up with a little over 300 meters. (Perfect Susano'o is roughly 125) So I went with that for the rough diameter of the craters.

The Kyuubi/Hachibi crater being roughly 8 times that, measuring up to something around 2.5 kilometers. From there, I merely had to estimate the size of the individual roots in contrast to the barrier, which was slightly smaller than the crater itself. Their sizes varied, but the average size was a little over half the diameter of the crater itself, leaving each root with a tad less than a mile height.

If you calculate the length of the roots to the Tenpenchi crater, you can from there calculate that the overall size of Shimogakure is about 250 kilometers. If we are to believe that the size of the Naruto Map's continent is roughly the same size as the United States of America, that would be more or less consistent.

I also tried measuring the height of the clouds that reached about a third of the Shinju's height, but the height of an average cloud is not so easily gauged tbh.

I could tell more, but you should get the idea from that.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Oh, I just did some rough estimations--Nothing exact, with some assumption littered within.

I had just felt that using Naruto's Biju Bomb in the Pain Arc and using that as a basis for the others like I'd seen some calc's do was an imprecise way of going about things--And I think I was right.

For one thing, the whole comparison between the Forest of Death and the blast seems very off--which is understandable, considering that you're trying to compare something that's not present. By scaling with the Hokage Monument, I found that the blast was only a little over a kilometer in diameter.

Secondly, the blasts that the other Biju put out (The ones Naruto deflected) weren't even half as powerful, they were only slightly larger than the mountains they destroyed. These mountains were relatively large, and the closest measurable match to them I could find was during the Hashirama vs Madara battle--And by measuring their bases using the Perfect Susano'o as a scale, I came up with a little over 300 meters. (Perfect Susano'o is roughly 125) So I went with that for the rough diameter of the craters.

The Kyuubi/Hachibi crater being roughly 8 times that, measuring up to something around 2.5 kilometers. From there, I merely had to estimate the size of the individual roots in contrast to the barrier, which was slightly smaller than the crater itself. Their sizes varied, but the average size was a little over half the diameter of the crater itself, leaving each root with a tad less than a mile height.

If you calculate the length of the roots to the Tenpenchi crater, you can from there calculate that the overall size of Shimogakure is about 250 kilometers. If we are to believe that the size of the Naruto Map's continent is roughly the same size as the United States of America, that would be more or less consistent.

I also tried measuring the height of the clouds that reached about a third of the Shinju's height, but the height of an average cloud is not so easily gauged tbh.

I could tell more, but you should get the idea from that.

Yeah, using 4-tailed Kyuubi's Bijuu bomb from that arc as a floor for the other Bijuu bombs is a faulty line of reasoning.

Dude, your numbers are way too low to be honest. 300 meters for the Bijuu bomb craters is far too low. All the craters were roughly the size of Gyuuki's Hachimaki crater. Now, I'm not a fan of scaling in general since Kishi is inconsistent as f***, but none of those craters can be 300m, since the Bijuu themselves are all >100m in height/length.

Which Hashirama vs. Madara fight? VotE?

Shimogakure? The Tree was never present in Shimogakure or the Land of Frost. That entire fight against the Juubi took place somewhere within the Land of Lightning.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
It's ridiculous. Pretty much all of his/her size/distance calcs are. Don't even get me started on those country size calcs or the 1 mile+ tall Perfect Susanoo.

Massively Hypersonic at best, IMO.

Nope, I don't believe Sasuke is halfway between those two, and apparently, Kishimoto himself did not believe Naruto and Sasuke together could take out Peak Juubi Madara.

He doesn't? Only difference from Madara and Sasuke is sage mode and Hags Yang chakra respectively, the latter being incredibly more powerful /confuzd

So just country+ for peak Sasuke?

Dude, your numbers are way too low to be honest.

Possibly.

300 meters for the Bijuu bomb craters is far too low. All the craters were roughly the size of Gyuuki's Hachimaki crater.

Is the Hachimaki crater in that scan w/ the blasts? I honestly can't tell.

Anyway, it was actually closer to 400m, and even then it does seem pretty low, but honestly if we're looking at their blasts compared to the surrounding mountains, they don't seem to be quite that massive.

I mean, the size of mountains are highly variable, but it really seems to me that the mountains Madara destroyed at the VotE were at least as large as the ones the bombs destroyed, but that's just me.

And if the scales are so massively higher than that, it just makes the upper tier stuff all that much more ridiculous/inconsistent.

Which Hashirama vs. Madara fight? VotE?

Yeah, the Valley of the End battle, when Madara cuts the mountains in a 360 degree swipe. Those mountains were pretty fvcking massive in comparison to the others we've seen relative to Perfect Susano'o.

Shimogakure? The Tree was never present in Shimogakure or the Land of Frost. That entire fight against the Juubi took place somewhere within the Land of Lightning.

Are you sure? Look at the water bodies in the panels in contrast map and the panels--Again, I might be mistaken, but that seems to be the area they're fighting in unless I'm missing something important.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Anything more specific? Its just that MHS goes from Ma 100 to 8,000 and all.

He doesn't? Only difference from Madara and Sasuke is sage mode and Hags Yang chakra respectively, the latter being incredibly more powerful /confuzd

So just country+ for peak Sasuke?

Low to Mid MHS.

Apparently Kishi said that he had no idea how Madara was going to lose. Since Madara was beaten via an asspull, yeah, I think Kishi thought Madara was > Sasuke.

I think he's lower than country+, to be honest, in terms of pure destructive capacity at least.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Is the Hachimaki crater in that scan w/ the blasts? I honestly can't tell.

Anyway, it was actually closer to 400m, and even then it does seem pretty low, but honestly if we're looking at their blasts compared to the surrounding mountains, they don't seem to be quite that massive.

I mean, the size of mountains are highly variable, but it really seems to me that the mountains Madara destroyed at the VotE were at least as large as the ones the bombs destroyed, but that's just me.

And if the scales are so massively higher than that, it just makes the upper tier stuff all that much more ridiculous/inconsistent.

Yeah, you can see it. There's a oval shaped clearing in the middle of a forest, maybe 30 degrees to the left of the 3rd crater.

Some of those mountains look more like shield volcanoes IMO. They're really short, but pretty broad.

I don't know, that's a pretty big leap to assume the mountains at VotE are the same size as the ones in the Bijuu fight.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Are you sure? Look at the water bodies in the panels in contrast map and the panels--Again, I might be mistaken, but that seems to be the area they're fighting in unless I'm missing something important.

I agree; based on the general shapes of the landmass, it does look like it was smack bang in the middle of the Land of Frost.

Logically though, it makes little sense. For starters, the area they're in looks nothing like a winter-based area would. I'd assume that at least a small section of a place called 'Land of Frost' would have some areas covered in ice, instead of mountains and forests.

Oonoki placed the Island Turtle on the eastern side of the Land of Lightning, right next to the SA's HQ.
After the mobilization of the Gin-Kin Bros. and the Edo Kages, all of the SA forces moved towards the Land of Lightning, and Gaara's division retreated further inwards in an attempt to stall until Darui's division was done with its battle on the Land of Lightning's coastline.
So basically, all major battles from this point on involving the SA (vs. Edo Kages, Madara & Tobi) had to have occurred within the Land of Lightning.

To get to the battlefields, Naruto and Bee had to move towards the west. Naruto sent his clones out ahead of him, so that they could get to the individual battlefields.
Tobi decided to intercept Naruto and Bee once he knew they were out in the open, which he did after a few hours, and that's when we got the Bijuu/Juubi fight. The only logical area where Tobi could have intercepted Naruto is somewhere within the Land of Lightning, between the western border and the Island Turtle.

Sasukedc, come to chat.

Yeah, you can see it. There's a oval shaped clearing in the middle of a forest, maybe 30 degrees to the left of the 3rd crater.

Ah, I see it now. I had thought that was a cloud. This changes things quite drastically.

I don't know, that's a pretty big leap to assume the mountains at VotE are the same size as the ones in the Bijuu fight.

You're absolutely right. It was an estimation that I thought was more or less accurate enough to use as a basis--I was clearly wrong. I didn't imagine that the difference would be so massive, though I suppose it explains why you can't see the Biju on that panel.

I agree; based on the general shapes of the landmass, it does look like it was smack bang in the middle of the Land of Frost.

👆

Logically though, it makes little sense. For starters, the area they're in looks nothing like a winter-based area would. I'd assume that at least a small section of a place called 'Land of Frost' would have some areas covered in ice, instead of mountains and forests.

This a fair assumption, though I wouldn't dismiss the geographic evidence because of that.

Well, with that in mind, those Shinju roots just jumped to twelve kilometers.

Actually, after sitting down and doing some much more accurate calcs, I've got the roots at 3.5-4.0 kilometers now. (2.0-2.5 miles)

Originally posted by NewGuy01

👆

This a fair assumption, though I wouldn't dismiss the geographic evidence because of that.

Neither would I, but it makes very little sense logically given the deployment and movement of the combatants. I understand that Kishi sometimes screws up, but c'mon.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Actually, after sitting down and doing some much more accurate calcs, I've got the roots at 3.5-4.0 kilometers now. (2.0-2.5 miles)

Walk us through it?

Sasuke would beat goku unless someone told goku about sasukes eyes then goku would have the drop on him and would attack him without question.

Obvious outcome is obvious.

Goku has no defense against Sharingan.

Sasuke is the biggest emo obnoxious *** in all of fiction

with that said, Tao Pei Pei one shots him with tongue punch to the butthole

Goku stomps