Top Chicks Run a Gauntlet

Originally posted by Arhael
We see Nihilus trying Force drain on Exile in cut scene. Same technique is utilized by Kreia and many other characters and it can be learned by Exile as well. Also, Jedi accuse Exile of teaching Sith this power. So your assumption that it is different technique has no basis.

If you read my response to Pwned, I think you'll agree that my 'assumption' has a lot of basis. Nihilus and Kreia used a technique other then Force drain in the occasions you mentioned. Simply because it has the same gameplay animation as Force Drain does not make it Force Drain. Gameplay animations are not canon.

Originally posted by Arhael
Also, you don't have any prove that Force drain doesn't leave absences in the Force because there are hardly any material with this technique.

The fact that its never happened in any other material is proof enough, despite how limited those materials may be.

Originally posted by Arhael
Nathema was completely absent in the Force, yet, unlike Katarr all machinery and buildings were in tact.

Indeed. Vitiate made use of a ritual to drain Nathema, and the effects were different, indicating that he made use of a different technique than Nihilus' or Force Drain. The fact that he seems not to be affected in the way Nihilus is, as in Nihilus' unquenchable hunger, further supports this.

Originally posted by Arhael
But there is enough evidence to prove that Nihilus was feeding on the Force of others and that's what defines Force drain.

Then why is it never referred to as Force Drain?

Originally posted by Arhael
As for comics. On one picture we see buildings collapsing. On another - skeleton pieces. That's not what Nihilus's " "technique" did to Kreia and not what Kreia's - to Jedi Masters. Feeding on the Force DOES NOT "obliterate planets" and incinirate bodies to bones.

There isn't any proof that it was Nihilus' attack that incinerated those bodies. In Unseen, Unheard there appear to be explosions occurring in areas that Nihilus' attack isn't touching. It could easily have been an explosion that reduced those people to bone.

And the scene in which Kreia kills the Jedi Masters is constrained by the graphical limitations of the fact that it occurs using the in-game engine. It's possible that they just couldn't animate the effects of the attack.

Or Avellone could have simply changed his mind about how the attack works after Kotor 2 and decided to change in it Unseen, Unheard.

Originally posted by Arhael
Mandalor heard his voice and didn't give a FOHH, that's how it's relevant. 😄

So what? I don't believe that Nihilus uses the technique when he speaks. And even if he did, theres nothing suggesting that he has such pitiful control over the technique that he can't speak without using it. If he does use it via speech, he obviously has some control over when he activates it.

Originally posted by Arhael
What you mean I proved nothing? I proved it with canon evidence from latest documented material. You can't accept evidence that suits you and discard all other. Like it or not he blasted planets into ruins. 😉

Yes, with his technique.

Originally posted by Arhael
It doesn't matter what they say. Qui-Gon says Anakin will bring the balance to the Force. Luke and Saba say that Force is off balance because Anakin refused the throne of balance. Words of characters can't be used as proofs.

Yes they can. Just because people can be wrong, does not give you the excuse to disregard everything that comes out of a characters mouth. In this case Kreia's words are supported by Avellones anyway.

Originally posted by Arhael
Unfortunately you can't prove it. And they do exactly same thing - drain Force energy from others.

A grenade does the same thing as a laser: burn things. Is a grenade a laser?

The Sun does the same thing as a lamp: Provide light. Is the Sun really just a giant lamp?

Aleema Keto used a Force Blast to reduce a man to a skeleton, Darth Sidious used Force lightning to do the same. Is Force Blast Force Lighting?

Originally posted by Arhael
Lol. It's Visas' quote from Unheard, Unseen. 😄

You misunderstand me. I knew that it was Visas who said that quote. However, she was talking about what other people said: 'It is said there were no survivors on Katarr." She didn't say that there weren't. I was pointing out, just as she was, that the people who said that there were no survivors in Katarr were wrong.

Originally posted by Arhael
We see him standing on the bridge of his flagman and his star fighters flying around outside the window. Your interpretation of it proves nothing. And, again, he didn't consume other worlds, he "blasted" them "into ruin" and fed on death it caused.

"Then, when all seems lost, he discovers that his emptiness hungered. The first time, he fed it unconsciously. Draining another being's life is frightening, nauseating, but for a euphoric moment, the memories, the illness, and the hunger disappeared. But it proves insatiable. The more he indulges it, the shorter the satisfaction lasts and the more severe the hunger becomes. He begins feeding relentlessly, still always craving. Existence again becomes unbearable, but then hope materializes. A blind Sith Lord appears. She has felt his existence like a gaping wound through the Force. The Force, she explains, fuels his hunger, and she will show him how to devours worlds. The Sith and the Force are meaningless to him, but the hunger must be appeased.

--Taken from the Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Guide

Originally posted by Arhael
When game was created there was no distinction on what is canon and what is not.

Actually I believe that it was said that the lightside path is always canon in these multiple ending games.

Originally posted by Arhael
In game he tried to drain her, when she was stunned and as result she was freed.
Encyclopedia clearly states that she got freed because Marr tried to sacrfice her life. Drain didn't happen during stun, therefore it's non-canon.

No, it says that her intervention gave the Exile a chance to recover. It is not mentioned how she broke free of the Stun.

Also:

"However, Traya reciprocates his betrayal by luring him into a confrontation with the Jedi Exile and Nihilus's own former apprentice. When Nihilus tries feeding on the Jedi, his hunger is mysteriously repelled, as if confronted by his exact polar opposite. Psychically starved by the effort, the Dark Lord falls to the Jedi, and Nihilus the man dissolves into oblivion."

--Taken from the Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Guide

Originally posted by Arhael
Severed from the Force cannot draw on the Force, cannot sence others and cannot be sensed. To form Force bond they need to sence each other at least. It's like Yuuzhan Vong.

"Nothing is impossible with the Force." - Kreia

Originally posted by Arhael
This is wrong on so many levels.

Originally posted by Arhael
First, Meetra instinctively severed herself from the Force to prevent her from feeling all the death around her, it's defence instinct, nothing more.

So what?

Originally posted by Arhael
Second, where on earth did you get the assumption that severing from the Force creates Force Wound??? Where does it say that Exile became Wound because of severing?

Er......

I've already given you this. Try to keep up boy. 🙄

Originally posted by Arhael
Where does it say that Nihilus got severed from the Force? I even will go as far as say that his hunger has nothing to do with mass death at Malachor and I can prove that.

Actually its confirmed in the KOTOR Campaign Guide that that's what happened to him:

'Victim of the Mandalorian Wars, the man who became Nihilus lost everything: his possessions, his loved ones, and the will to live. While illness cannibalizes his body, a vast emptiness devours his humanity. Then, when all seems lost, he discovers that his emptiness hungered.'

Try again though.

Originally posted by Arhael
Third, Kallista got severed from the Force as completely as it could be. She was as void in the Force as Yuuzhan Vong. When Luke practiced with her with lightsabers, he couldn't sence her, he couldn't anticipate her attacks and had to wholly rely on his eyes and reflexes instead. Jacen managed to restore connection by getting enraged. Similarly, Kallista could restore connection by getting enraged. She broke up with Luke because she couldn't create Force bond with Luke.

"No, there were not. In times past and in times future, there are Jedi who will stop listening to the Force, those that will try to forget it, but maintain unconscious ties. And those, as in the past just as I, who have had the force stripped from them."

Originally posted by Arhael
Encyclopaedia says that she was a Jedi, that she gathered Jedi at enclave and that she defeated Traya. It all perfectly goes with Revan's story.

It clashes only with game, which means that it overrides or clarifies some of the game events.

Specifically it overrides Jedi enclave event and clarifies that Nihilus did not consume worlds.

Instead he obliterated them and blasted them into ruins and his ability to consume planets was only a rumor. Easiest interpretation is orbital bombardment and he had fleet for that. Another interpretation is use of some arcane Force technique other than what he used on Kreia or Kreia on Jedi Masters and after killing with that, he fed on death and anguish like Kueller and many other characters.

Those quotes are not evidence. Those are various interpretations of what others sense in Exile and what Jedi say contradicts what Traya says. Evidence comes from documented material and there is no direct proof in any documentation. And Encyclopaedia - one of such latest source doesn't claim that he could consume planets, it claims that it's a rumor. And game gives us nothing more than absurd rumors like he consumes planets, reaps starship out of mass shadow and holds it together and that his voice causes death to every life surrounding him. And there is no prove for any of those feats.

Yeah, I done with you now.

Originally posted by Nephthys
A lamp and the Sun do pretty much the same thing. In both cases, they convert energy to provide light. Specifics are the only difference.

Not ONLY is my analogy/what-have-you better, but it irrevocably proves nothing.

Same but different is what it is to me. They are both an aspect of Force Drain, but the Uber-drain does other stuff and works a bit differently.

Oh, and the sun releases energy, which produces heat as a side effect, IIRC. TAKE THAT. (Insert Phoenix Wright picture here)

*Generic statement about your mother and sexuality*

If it behaves differently and works differently then it is different.

Oh and my lamp gets hot too.

Originally posted by Pwned
Same but different is what it is to me. They are both an aspect of Force Drain, but the Uber-drain does other stuff and works a bit differently.

And the "defense" in both analogies is the same for the objects. For "protection" against the sun and a light bulb you go in the shade and for "protection" against the cheese and taco you don't eat them or use laxatives...

Originally posted by Nephthys
If it behaves differently and works differently then it is different.

Oh and my lamp gets hot too.

Oh, and your lamp gets hot because..... Because **** YOU, thats why.

(Sorry, I have been wanting to say that all day just for no reason. Don't take it seriously)

Ahhh, Simpsons......

Sun gives off heat. Because Heat = IR Radiation.
And various other forms of EM Radiation.

Be careful what you define as energy please. XD.

The fact that its never happened in any other material is proof enough, despite how limited those materials may be.

Then why is it never referred to as Force Drain?

There isn't any proof that it was Nihilus' attack that incinerated those bodies. In Unseen, Unheard there appear to be explosions occurring in areas that Nihilus' attack isn't touching. It could easily have been an explosion that reduced those people to bone.

1. In encyclopaedia it says that he obliterated Katarr. It, also, says that he blasted worlds into ruin.

2. In comics it says "destruction of the Katarr"and on the same image you can identify at least three different buildings crumbling with no sign of explosions. Behind Nihilus we see a remaining crumbled wall of a building.

Your assumptions about explosions are laughable. Not only there is no visible explosions, what would cause them on first place and why there would explosives all around?

And explosions don't live perfectly white bones, we see perfectly white skull next to laying Visas. And we see Visas running away from destruction.

3. In campaign guide:
"when Darth Nihilus razed Katarr,"

"after Katarr's destruction, she realizes the Sith Lord has carved the flesh from her eye..."

As you see in all sources words like destruction, raze, ruin and oblitirate are figuring.

At no point Kreia or any other source mentions that his drain has destructive power.

Also, this:
"Through an unholy dark-side technique, Nihilus murders every living being on Katarr". - As you see it doesn't simply describe him sucking life out of whole planet. He used an unholy technique to achieve mass destruction and that's why effects are so different from Kreia's and Jedi Masters examples.

So what? I don't believe that Nihilus uses the technique when he speaks. And even if he did, theres nothing suggesting that he has such pitiful control over the technique that he can't speak without using it. If he does use it via speech, he obviously has some control over when he activates it.

In this case Kreia's words are supported by Avellones anyway.

A grenade does the same thing as a laser: burn things. Is a grenade a laser?

The Sun does the same thing as a lamp: Provide light. Is the Sun really just a giant lamp?

Aleema Keto used a Force Blast to reduce a man to a skeleton, Darth Sidious used Force lightning to do the same. Is Force Blast Force Lighting?

Nihilus was draining Force from others. Aa result others got drained of the Force. It is basis of any Force drain. The only difference you could distinguish like in above examples is potency.

Also, his drain description is quite contradictive.
"his mere presence kills all around him, slowly, feeding him."

"Draining another being's life is frightening..."
This two quotes prove that he drains Force directly out of them.

"it is a means of severing the connections between life, the Force, and feeding on the death it brings." - But this quote claims that he kills by severing connection instead of draining. And feeds on death similarly to Kueller.

Instead of picking one of interpretations, I prefer to assume that he can do both. Hence, he can drain directly like in case with Traya and Exile or can obliterate worlds with "an unholy technique" and then feed on death it caused.

You misunderstand me. I knew that it was Visas who said that quote. However, she was talking about what other people said: 'It is said there were no survivors on Katarr." She didn't say that there weren't. I was pointing out, just as she was, that the people who said that there were no survivors in Katarr were wrong.

Actually I believe that it was said that the lightside path is always canon in these multiple ending games.

No, it says that her intervention gave the Exile a chance to recover. It is not mentioned how she broke free of the Stun.

"When Nihilus tries feeding on the Jedi, his hunger is mysteriously repelled, as if confronted by his exact polar opposite."

I've already given you this. Try to keep up boy. 🙄

Actually its confirmed in the KOTOR Campaign Guide that that's what happened to him:

Try again though.

Actually I was gonna use this quote about Nihilus as prove that he didn't get severed from the Force. As you see it describes that he lost everything. It doesn't even mention mass shadow incident. His deep emotional trauma caused him to feel hunger, which has nothing to do with severing from the Force.

Read this:
"He was created when Malachor V was torn apart, and he was intended as the Exile’s other half, one that took a more self-destructive path rather than denying the Force during that battle that ended the Mandalorian Wars.

As much as Nihilus embraced the Dark Side’s Force talent of consuming force sensitives (and other life, such as the mass Mandalorian slaughter), the Exile took the higher ground and cut himself off from the pull of such power."
- by Avellone from an interview.
As you see author himself states that Exile denied the Force and cut herself from it but Nihilus on the opposite developed hunger for more Force.

And this quote explaines what is ment by "pollar opposite", when she resisted him. He craved for the Force, while she denied it. There was nothing for him to drain from her. Although, it is kind of a paradox that she could still use the Force.

No, there were not. In times past and in times future, there are Jedi who will stop listening to the Force, those that will try to forget it, but maintain unconscious tiesyAnd those, as in the past just as I, who have had the force stripped from them."

Originally posted by Arhael
Also, this:
"Through an unholy dark-side technique, Nihilus murders every living being on Katarr". - As you see it doesn't simply describe him sucking life out of whole planet. He used an unholy technique to achieve mass destruction and that's why effects are so different from Kreia's and Jedi Masters examples.

Haha, did you just prove my point for me? Lol, this proves that Nihilus killed the people on Katarr with his technique, not by blasting the planet from orbit. Nice one loooooooooooser!

Edit:

Originally posted by Arhael
Read this:
"He was created when Malachor V was torn apart, and he was intended as the Exile’s other half, one that took a more self-destructive path rather than denying the Force during that battle that ended the Mandalorian Wars.

As much as Nihilus embraced the Dark Side’s Force talent of consuming force sensitives (and other life, such as the mass Mandalorian slaughter), the Exile took the higher ground and cut himself off from the pull of such power."
- by Avellone from an interview.
As you see author himself states that Exile denied the Force and cut herself from it but Nihilus on the opposite developed hunger for more Force.

Right before the part you quoted, Avellone points out that none of that is canon.

I should've named this, "Force Drain Hax Debate part 26."

Originally posted by Based
I should've named this, "Force Drain Hax Debate part 26."

Indeed. Maybe Darth Cognus or Mara Jade in Kreia's place would've been less controversial.

You obviously havn't read the recent Mara Jade threads. Zam and Arheal are under the controversial brand of insanity that says that she can beat characters like Sidious and Vitiate.

Haha, did you just prove my point for me? Lol, this proves that Nihilus killed the people on Katarr with his technique, not by blasting the planet from orbit. Nice one loooooooooooser!

And I am not loser. I am honest person, who wouldn't hide available evidence.

Right before the part you quoted, Avellone points out that none of that is canon.

Nevertheless, it is his opinion on which game is based. And this opinion is supported by mysterious "polar opposite" in guide. At the end of the day Nihilus is not mentioned to be severed from the Force and even author says that. Moreover, the main reason for him developing hunger is not experiencing Force wound but psychological trauma of losing everything. No source says that Exile and him were walking Force wounds. And no source says that she was able to resist him because she is a Force wound.

"Devoid of reality."

Originally posted by Nephthys
You obviously havn't read the recent Mara Jade threads. Zam and Arheal are under the controversial brand of insanity that says that she can beat characters like Sidious and Vitiate.

Ah yea.

Cognus then.

You obviously havn't read the recent Mara Jade threads. Zam and Arheal are under the controversial brand of insanity that says that she can beat characters like Sidious and Vitiate.

Mara that could block and dodge lightsaber attacks of Lord Nyax, who is much stronger and is far more powerful than any known Force user except Abeloth.

Mara who's mind domination resistance is as good as Luke's as demonstrated during struggle against the same Nyax.

Mara that could resist and tank Force attacks of Jacen, who could Force handle Katarn with 3 Jedi Knights and later Jaina and who put up much better fight against prime Luke, than Sidious againt NOT prime Luke.

Indead, insane opinion...

Admitting it is the first step towards recovery. I'm so proud of you.

Originally posted by Arhael
Mara that before reaching her prime blocked combined TK and lightning that overpowered 2 years pre-DE Luke.

Mara that could block and dodge lightsaber attacks of Lord Nyax, who is much stronger and is far more powerful than any known Force user except Abeloth.

Mara who's mind domination resistance is as good as Luke's as demonstrated during struggle against the same Nyax.

Mara that could resist and tank Force attacks of Jacen, who could Force handle Katarn with 3 Jedi Knights and later Jaina and who put up much better fight against prime Luke, than Sidious againt NOT prime Luke.

Indead, insane opinion...

Originally posted by Ascendancy
If you're going to abuse alcohol that's fine, but you don't have to always come on the forums while you're in the midst of your binges.