Top Chicks Run a Gauntlet

Originally posted by Nephthys
Good point. To correct myself, I believe he was confused as to why there weren't actually any Jedi on Telos.

Well yeah, when you talk to Tobin about it Visas says that eventually Nihilus would just eat the planet despite there being no Jedi on it.

Tobin: "The Master suffers... If he can not feed, then the hunger begins to consume him The planet Telos... He may feed on something upon its surface to sustain himself a while longer."

Visas: "If there are no Jedi here, then my Lord cannot feed his hunger. He will destroy the planet, the station... he will cleanse it of life. ...and if there are no Jedi below, he will have no other choice."

But I assume that Jedi give considerably more Force power than non-Jedi.

Thats what I had been thinking as well. I compare it to a battery, with a Jedi being a 9-cell lithium ion, and a normal person being a Duracell. Nihilus, on the other hand, is a massive television. The lithium ion batteries work for a while, but a duracell is extremely temporary., even when these things are in the millions.

However, the point still remains that he may require some preparation, which not only stays in line with many more advanced techniques, or versions of a technique. Look at things such as; the ritual Bane and the Sith used to burn the forest; The Wall of Light; etc. The most powerful things always need a short prep time. And Mara Jade. She needs it.

That has been discussed in the past, and the concept of Nihilus needing time to prepare has been dismissed as baseless speculation. Kreia didn't seem to prepare when she used it, nor did Nihilus when he used it on the Exile.

No, I mean the planet destroying aspect of it. Single target its just an advanced, or just more powerful, Force Drain. They are just so similiar I can only compare it to that.

Keep in mind that Nihilus was unaccosted before he did it, and had been preparing to use it (by your own admission) and Kreia had been planning to get the Exile after her, AND had been meditating in the mean time. She could have been preparing the Drain.

Its the same goddamn technique.

Except Nihilus uses Force Stasis on the party before he attempts his drain and Kreia smacks the Council around.

I personally do not believe it to be exactly the same technique, otherwise it could be learned. I think its like Electric Judgement and Sith Lightning. Very similiar, but different in just that one aspect that changes it completely.

Force Drain was learned by Krayt, which is completely contradictory to Kreia's statement. That means it is either a slightly different technique, or she was lying.

I personally think you're dead wrong. It's all the same technique. Despite the crack Mizukage has been smoking, there is absolutely nothing indicating that they're different techniques. As for it being learned, why do you think that?

IMO Nihilus' and Kreia's technique is different from regular Force Drain. For a start, as you say Force Drain can be taught. Secondly, as we see it in Unseen, Unheard it doesn't resemble regular Force Drain. Thirdly, Kreia is very clear that using the technique causes it to start to devour the user, forcing them to continue to use it. Avellone himself backs this up, stating that 'As powerful as Nihilus’ ability is in the short term, the drawback is that it robs the user of almost identity but hunger, which is why is never employed by the Sith Lords of old... who had no wish to sublimate their identities for any reason.' This is never mentioned in any usage of Force Drain. Fourthly, when Kreia uses the technique it causes an absence in the Force. This is never mentioned in any usage of Force Drain. Fifthly, Kreia says that the technique is unblockable. This is never mentioned in any usage of Force Drain. Sixthly, the mechanics of the technique are extremely unconventional and no source suggests that Force Drain works the same way. And lastly, the technique is never stated to be or called Force Drain in any other material, by Avellone or in the game itself, despite the fact that Force Drain does exist in the game as an ability Jedi party members can learn. So it isn't as if no-one is aware of it.

Originally posted by Nephthys

Just imagine those lines to the tempo of Snoop Dog's verse in "Nothin but a G Thang."

Rap is the devil.

Cause you ain't on my level
The rhythm is the bass, and the bass is the treble.

B*tch, you can't touch my swag. I'm the King.

I think it's still a pretty powerful technique whatever the specifics and opponents are, at the very least, going to have to spend a good deal of effort defending against it.

And with a numbers disadvantage in pretty much all cases, this is a bad thing for the foes.

Since we're on anime, tentacles FTW, as in Zannah and her Darkside tentacles of doom. "Everybody's gonna die." -Parasite Eve.

It probably doesn't help the name we'd place onto something like Kreia and Nihilus' technique is already used: Force Drain.

Damn, I wish we could call it:

Force Drain Mk. MMMMMMMMMI

Nihilus' technique is not Force Drain. Force Drain does not leave absences in the Force. Theres no contradiction here. Nor is there any indication that the images show anything other than the real events of the story.

And Visas could have gotten the injuries in any number of ways from wondering around the ruins of Katarr or from falling debris.

Also, you don't have any prove that Force drain doesn't leave absences in the Force because there are hardly any material with this technique. Nathema was completely absent in the Force, yet, unlike Katarr all machinery and buildings were in tact. The only other examples were Palpatine, Kueller, Lomi Plo and Krayt but their drain didn't kill anyone.

But there is enough evidence to prove that Nihilus was feeding on the Force of others and that's what defines Force drain.

As for comics. On one picture we see buildings collapsing. On another - skeleton pieces. That's not what Nihilus's " "technique" did to Kreia and not what Kreia's - to Jedi Masters. Feeding on the Force DOES NOT "obliterate planets" and incinirate bodies to bones.

And how is Mandalore's opinion relevent? It's not as if he was on Katarr, or that Mandalore said that in the first place. That's Visas' quote. You've given proof of nothing.

What you mean I proved nothing? I proved it with canon evidence from latest documented material. You can't accept evidence that suits you and discard all other. Like it or not he blasted planets into ruins. 😉

Kreia says that its an ancient Sith technique actually. She also says that the technique can be learned through experiencing its effects first hand.

Simply that they aren't. Just because they do similar things doesn't make them the same thing. Nihilus' technique works in a different way than Force Drain.

She trained him in the techniques use. She'd know what he can do better than anyone except himself. Plus Visas confirms her words.

Whoever said that was wrong.

No, we see him there preparing to consume it, as he consumed Katarr and many other worlds.

Kreia only does it in a non-canon cutscene. I'm not assuming anything. I'm just informing you about why its not a contradiction.

Very well, I'll admit my mistake. However that still does not make it non-canon. As I said, simply because the quote fails to mention it does not mean it didn't happen.

When game was created there was no distinction on what is canon and what is not.

In game he tried to drain her, when she was stunned and as result she was freed.
Encyclopedia clearly states that she got freed because Marr tried to sacrfice her life. Drain didn't happen during stun, therefore it's non-canon.

Clearly they can. 🙂

she became a Force Wound because she severed herself from the Force.

None of those severed themselves so completely that they created a Wound in the Force.

First, Meetra instinctively severed herself from the Force to prevent her from feeling all the death around her, it's defence instinct, nothing more.

Second, where on earth did you get the assumption that severing from the Force creates Force Wound??? Where does it say that Exile became Wound because of severing? Where does it say that Nihilus got severed from the Force? I even will go as far as say that his hunger has nothing to do with mass death at Malachor and I can prove that.

Third, Kallista got severed from the Force as completely as it could be. She was as void in the Force as Yuuzhan Vong. When Luke practiced with her with lightsabers, he couldn't sence her, he couldn't anticipate her attacks and had to wholly rely on his eyes and reflexes instead. Jacen managed to restore connection by getting enraged. Similarly, Kallista could restore connection by getting enraged. She broke up with Luke because she couldn't create Force bond with Luke.

Oh, but that clashes absolutely with Revan's story and indeed with itself. Kreia only blasts the Exile if the Jedi Master's aren't even present, in the darkside path. Which everything confirms is not the canon one. You can't have your cake and eat it to. You can't post the non-canon version of events and expect it to back up whats written in the sourcebook taht clearly contradicts that scene.

It clashes only with game, which means that it overrides or clarifies some of the game events.
Specifically it overrides Jedi enclave event and clarifies that Nihilus did not consume worlds. Instead he obliterated them and blasted them into ruins and his ability to consume planets was only a rumor. Easiest interpretation is orbital bombardment and he had fleet for that. Another interpretation is use of some arcane Force technique other than what he used on Kreia or Kreia on Jedi Masters and after killing with that, he fed on death and anguish like Kueller and many other characters.

If you're just going to ignore all the evidence I provide for you then I'm not even going to bother to reply anymore.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I personally think you're dead wrong. It's all the same technique. Despite the crack Mizukage has been smoking, there is absolutely nothing indicating that they're different techniques. As for it being learned, why do you think that?

IMO Nihilus' and Kreia's technique is different from regular Force Drain. For a start, as you say Force Drain can be taught. Secondly, as we see it in Unseen, Unheard it doesn't resemble regular Force Drain. Thirdly, Kreia is very clear that using the technique causes it to start to devour the user, forcing them to continue to use it. Avellone himself backs this up, stating that 'As powerful as Nihilus’ ability is in the short term, the drawback is that it robs the user of almost identity but hunger, which is why is never employed by the Sith Lords of old... who had no wish to sublimate their identities for any reason.' This is never mentioned in any usage of Force Drain. Fourthly, when Kreia uses the technique it causes an absence in the Force. This is never mentioned in any usage of Force Drain. Fifthly, Kreia says that the technique is unblockable. This is never mentioned in any usage of Force Drain. Sixthly, the mechanics of the technique are extremely unconventional and no source suggests that Force Drain works the same way. And lastly, the technique is never stated to be or called Force Drain in any other material, by Avellone or in the game itself, despite the fact that Force Drain does exist in the game as an ability Jedi party members can learn. So it isn't as if no-one is aware of it.

Different technique entirely imo.

Well they do pretty much the same thing. In both cases, something is drained from the target and the target dies. Specifics are the only difference.

A lamp and the Sun do pretty much the same thing. In both cases, they convert energy to provide light. Specifics are the only difference.