Originally posted by zopzop
Back in the day, with the pre AvX PF, it would be a stomp of horrendous proportions against Superman.But now? I say he takes a majority against these clowns. Abhilegend's Xemnu/Red Hulk scan vs PF Emma/Red Hulk was completely embarrassing to the PF. 👇
But then we see PF Namor snap his arm with no effort at all. The entire AVX fell off the moment Cable was taken down. If someone came up to me and said that the entire arc was written by an intern, I wouldn't be surprised. The inconsistencies in the arc is what makes it fail. Not to mention that I have seen an entire continuum of Phoenix Avatars, and none of them were written nearly as poor as what we have witnessed from these 5 PF users. Someone really needs to be fired over this mess.
Originally posted by Stoic
But then we see PF Namor snap his arm with no effort at all. The entire AVX fell off the moment Cable was taken down. If someone came up to me and said that the entire arc was written by an intern, I wouldn't be surprised. The inconsistencies in the arc is what makes it fail. Not to mention that I have seen an entire continuum of Phoenix Avatars, and none of them were written nearly as poor as what we have witnessed from these 5 PF users. Someone really needs to be fired over this mess.
All this drama and all it took was Mr. Sinister to end the P5! I'm still LOLing at that idiot Nova Corp member that said this thing, ie the PF, was more powerful than Galactus. 😆
Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
He can beat one or two, but all five is a bit of a stretch, unless he uses his speed to it's utmost.
But well written just one would turn him the hell out. An avatar of the Phoenix has tremendous TP, TK, Strength, Speed, and can not die. No way Superman beats even one well written Avatar. The nerf came directly after the idiot who wrote this mess realized that all of the Heroes on Earth combined would have no chance of defeating them if they decided to go all out. Superman sun dipped or otherwise has no business fighting abstract level characters and winning. Even 1/5th would be above some High Herald strong man.
Without much effort a Phoenix Avatar could, and should be able to devour a star.
I definitely didn't see anything that made me think each member of the Phoenix 5 was anything more than a Trans level being (though admittedly I stopped reading the series, as I think most of us can agree it is absolutely HORRIBLE).
And Sundipped Superman would easily fall into the trans category as well. The only reason I can see him beating more than one (maybe 2 tops) is because it seems like they had trouble with speed reaction, and this Superman is insanely fast.
Also, regular Superman's TP resistance feats are pretty insane, so I feel that wouldn't be a huge issue for him, especially since he should take the fight to them before they can TP him.
Again, I want to clarify though, I don't see him winning against all 5 by a long shot.
Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
I definitely didn't see anything that made me think each member of the Phoenix 5 was anything more than a Trans level being (though admittedly I stopped reading the series, as I think most of us can agree it is absolutely HORRIBLE).And Sundipped Superman would easily fall into the trans category as well. The only reason I can see him beating more than one (maybe 2 tops) is because it seems like they had trouble with speed reaction, and this Superman is insanely fast.
Also, regular Superman's TP resistance feats are pretty insane, so I feel that wouldn't be a huge issue for him, especially since he should take the fight to them before they can TP him.
Again, I want to clarify though, I don't see him winning against all 5 by a long shot.
Which was due to incompetent writing, and the lack of knowledge of exactly how to approach such an immense power. Like I said, even 1/5th of the Phoenix Force would be above Superman. Cosmic awareness has always been a match for pure speed. He would not be able to put even one of these guys down. They transcend the physical, and although not written up the way that they should have been, 1/5th of the PF would and should easily walk among low level abstracts, while the full PF is high Abstract in terms of power grade. Superman would be devoured like a Crispy Cream.
Originally posted by keiththegreat
I can't see how each P5 member could be considered a low level abstract.
Well from the way that they have been written how in the world could anyone. It almost makes me forget about the time when Rachel had Galactus against the ropes. In order to gauge them properly for what they should have been in terms of power, one would need to go back and judge Dark Phoenix, Rachel, and the many other appearances of the entity that gave only a portion of the full Phoenix Force. The entire AvX event should be considered a low showing for the entity. The idea that the Heroes in space weren't devoured in an instant by the Bird was completely plot related, and should in no way be brought into a forum discussion, because it would ignore all of its previous feats. Can you say bullshyt writing 5 times?
I wonder how many comic book readers have said "AvX was the last straw for Marvel for me". It was so bad I couldn't even keep reading it, and you're talking to someone who finished Siege. DCnU is blowing Marvel away.
But, Stoic, onto what you're saying about Phoenix being nerfed, hasn't that been the trend in Marvel now? Celestials' power levels have dipped BIG TIME IMO. I think skyfathers have lost a lot of their power levels as well.
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Why's that?
When they first came out they seemed like the be all end all of the MU. Now they each seem to be a little lower than Galactus on the totem pole, and their being shown up all the time. The Thanos imperative stuff. The Mr. Sinister stuff, Sue blasting one of the arms off with what appeared to be little effort (admittedly a different universe's celestial. Just stuff like that.
Originally posted by PillarofOsirisAnd Galactus is now written where he should be, no shame in that.
When they first came out they seemed like the be all end all of the MU. Now they each seem to be a little lower than Galactus on the totem pole, and their being shown up all the time. The Thanos imperative stuff. The Mr. Sinister stuff, Sue blasting one of the arms off with what appeared to be little effort (admittedly a different universe's celestial. Just stuff like that.
Thanos Imperative didn't really have low feats... If anything they were seen as God's there to everyone else.
Tiamut didn't do anything to defend himself, while still dumb, it ended up with Mr Sinister absolutely mollywhopping the Phoenix 5 with some of his power... that was also waning. While I suspect they'll win in the end, the initial attack turned out awful for them.
Sue has the hyperspace weakness going for her.
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
And Galactus is now written where he should be, no shame in that.Thanos Imperative didn't really have low feats... If anything they were seen as God's there to everyone else.
Tiamut didn't do anything to defend himself, while still dumb, it ended up with Mr Sinister absolutely mollywhopping the Phoenix 5 with some of his power... that was also waning. While I suspect they'll win in the end, the initial attack turned out awful for them.
Sue has the hyperspace weakness going for her.
Yeah, I know all that. It just seems to be a general disrespect going for them is all I'm saying. If they had the power levels they were originally presented as having, I can't see any of that happening.
Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
Yeah, I know all that. It just seems to be a general disrespect going for them is all I'm saying. If they had the power levels they were originally presented as having, I can't see any of that happening.
They were sodoamized by the Nerf bat (the Celestials and the PF).
Originally posted by PillarofOsirisThanos Imperative - Millions of Celestials fighting Super Ego
Yeah, I know all that. It just seems to be a general disrespect going for them is all I'm saying. If they had the power levels they were originally presented as having, I can't see any of that happening.
Mr Sinister doing what he did to Tiamut - Ghaur doing that to Tiamut
Sue blowing through just an arm - Well, no worse than her actually destroying the most powerful Celestial.
They still wiped out the Multiverses most powerful minds. Tanked a couple UN's, and it took Adult Frank a kamikaze attack to take out Eson, some power beating the Phoenix 5 easily, etc, so there's that.
Originally posted by zopzop
Back in the day, with the pre AvX PF, it would be a stomp of horrendous proportions against Superman.But now? I say he takes a majority against these clowns. Abhilegend's Xemnu/Red Hulk scan vs PF Emma/Red Hulk was completely embarrassing to the PF. 👇
What makes you think Emma even tried? Good semi-resistance feat from Rulk but couldn't you tell they only toyed with him? If she wanted to she could've pwned him even easier than she did Thor. At that level, why does she need grandeur displays of TP anyway?? Red Hulk did'nt do jack shit but get his arm snapped like a toothpick and wtf pwned by a optic beam.