Sun dipped Superman vs Phoenix five

Originally posted by Sundipped
What makes you think Emma even tried? Good semi-resistance feat from Rulk but couldn't you tell they only toyed with him? If she wanted to she could've pwned him even easier than she did Thor. At that level, why does she need grandeur displays of TP anyway?? Red Hulk did'nt do jack shit but get his arm snapped like a toothpick and wtf pwned by a optic beam.

So far these clowns and this entire event has been a clusterphuck. The PF will NEVER recover from this garbage (unless in the final issue it's all shown to be a dream or something of Cyclops or Hope). It's over, stick a fork in it.

Originally posted by zopzop
I thought it was pretty obvious from the issue that she was attempting and FAILING to do anything TP wise vs Rulk. Xemnu made a fool of him.

So far these clowns and this entire event has been a clusterphuck. The PF will NEVER recover from this garbage (unless in the final issue it's all shown to be a dream or something of Cyclops or Hope). It's over, stick a fork in it.

You can cry about the event all you want but nothing is shown (powerwise) that the PF is anything less than what it is supposed to represent. So stop lowballing.

^ There are a couple of hardcore Phoenix followers that would give you a full 101 course of the Phoenix, and it's appearances, and you would realize that even 1/5th of the entity would be beastly, and far beyond the capabilities of a trans level being.

Xenmu is a beast. Namor snapped Rulk's arm like a twig.

It's obvious that it's the medium's intent that creates the Phoenix empowered being's creation/intent.

I'm wondering what peoples opinion of All Star Superman is, and if they believe that he was written properly? Taking his sun dip into account and judging by the first 5 books of the series.

Just something to think about with regards to the TP comparisons..

Xenmu is actually a powerful telepath but beyond that, he had Red Hulk punch himself out, whereas Emma tried to force Ross to kill himself in his human form. The Hulk characters have a unique ability/curse in which they can't commit suicide by way of some sort of "built-in" self-preservation mechanism. Apparently at that point it was > Emma's ability to override and it caused her feedback.

IMO it was a loophole the writers used to stop Rulks invasion of Utopia basically ending in one page, but she likely could affect him with her TP if she tried the same tactic as Xenmu.

Originally posted by Sundipped
You can cry about the event all you want but nothing is shown (powerwise) that the PF is anything less than what it is supposed to represent. So stop lowballing.

Originally posted by Stoic
^ There are a couple of hardcore Phoenix followers that would give you a full 101 course of the Phoenix, and it's appearances, and you would realize that even 1/5th of the entity would be beastly, and far beyond the capabilities of a trans level being.

Originally posted by id369
[B]Excalibur volume 1, issue #50
Rachael vs Necrom. Battle wise, good showings.
Asteroids, and moons are thrown at each other. Planetes are one shotted, and ignited to form a sun. Devastation to an entire Solar System.
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With 1/5 of the FULL Force, assuming Classic levels, this event wouldn't have lasted one panel. Face it, the PF has been Nerfed, badly.

This doesn't even include the scan of Mastermind tapping into Rachel's portion of the PF and achieving UNIVERSE level cosmic awareness. Yet now the P5 can't even find the Avengers on Earth. Sick, stupid, and sad that's what the PF is now.

Originally posted by Stoic
I'm wondering what peoples opinion of All Star Superman is, and if they believe that he was written properly? Taking his sun dip into account and judging by the first 5 books of the series.

It's written properly because it's a different Superman, so he technically wouldn't react to a sun dip the same way the main continuity Superman did. Remember Superman stayed in the sun thousands of years and became virtually omnipotent. Also PC Superman was different in regards to that as well. So clearly All Star Superman works a different way, which is fine. I own them, and I've read them, but I'm not a huge fan (I guess I'm in the minority there as it was really popular).

Originally posted by zopzop
@Sundipped

See that? That's not even 1/5th of anything. That's a SLIVER of what Rachel had access too (Necrom couldn't even use it unless Rachel was using her powers) and yet : he hurled the MOLTEN CORE of a planet at her, he hurled moons at her, he ignited a gas giant into a star, he destroyed an entire solar system.

With 1/5 of the FULL Force, assuming Classic levels, this event wouldn't have lasted one panel. Face it, the PF has been Nerfed, badly.

This doesn't even include the scan of Mastermind tapping into Rachel's portion of the PF and achieving UNIVERSE level cosmic awareness. Yet now the P5 can't even find the Avengers on Earth. Sick, stupid, and sad that's what the PF is now.

I remember that book. Real bad ass stuff being tossed around, and like you said, Rachel only possessed a sliver of the PF. 1/5th would be just too much if they were really basing the P5 off of past canon. If Starlin or a similar talent wrote this arc, the entire universe would have been called in to assist the Earth, and we would see guys like the Watcher chronicling events consistently, and Galactus being overcome by a superior power, perhaps even the Celestials would jump into action, and get frig fragged. They could have gone so many ways with this but what do we get? Sinister. Rich.

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
It's written properly because it's a different Superman, so he technically wouldn't react to a sun dip the same way the main continuity Superman did. Remember Superman stayed in the sun thousands of years and became virtually omnipotent. Also PC Superman was different in regards to that as well. So clearly All Star Superman works a different way, which is fine. I own them, and I've read them, but I'm not a huge fan (I guess I'm in the minority there as it was really popular).

Really? All Star was one of my all time favorite arcs, and I've read many. It's also in the top ten best written comics stories of all time as you mentioned. I thought of it as pure win. I even liked the movie.

Originally posted by zopzop
@Sundipped

See that? That's not even 1/5th of anything. That's a SLIVER of what Rachel had access too (Necrom couldn't even use it unless Rachel was using her powers) and yet : he hurled the MOLTEN CORE of a planet at her, he hurled moons at her, he ignited a gas giant into a star, he destroyed an entire solar system.

With 1/5 of the FULL Force, assuming Classic levels, this event wouldn't have lasted one panel. Face it, the PF has been Nerfed, badly.

This doesn't even include the scan of Mastermind tapping into Rachel's portion of the PF and achieving UNIVERSE level cosmic awareness. Yet now the P5 can't even find the Avengers on Earth. Sick, stupid, and sad that's what the PF is now.

And a silver is = to how much?
Could be more than 1/5, could be less.

Kinda hard for the P5 to end it in one panel being that it's a 12 issue event don't cha think?

Would've thought you'd be aware that this is not the cosmic busting event that you hoped for. Nonetheless, their full potential is lacking ...but the lack thereof does not = anything embarrassing as far as showings. Far from it.

Originally posted by Sundipped
And a silver is = to how much?
Could be more than 1/5, could be less.

Kinda hard for the P5 to end it in one panel being that it's a 12 issue event don't cha think?

Would've thought you'd be aware that this is not the cosmic busting event that you hoped for. Nonetheless, their full potential is lacking ...[B]but the lack thereof does not = anything embarrassing as far as showings. Far from it. [/B]

They could have done a lot with this event even if they wrote the PF to it's full potential by including beings like Franklin Richards, the Watcher, various heralds of Galactus, the Celestials, etc.. to lend a hand to give it some kind of "cosmic" scope. I'm not saying Infinity Series (Gauntlet, War, Crusade) level but not this crap either. So much FAIL.

^
You want to reference the Necrom fight but what you have to realize is that the only opposition in this arc for the PF is the Avengers. No need to ignight suns or throw moons like Rachael did but I'm not gonna sit here and say that it couldn't be done by any member if need be. Just that it's no need and wouldn't be conducive to plot in this particular case.

Originally posted by Sundipped
^
You want to reference the Necrom fight but what you have to realize is that the only opposition in this arc for the PF is the Avengers. No need to ignight suns or throw moons like Rachael did but I'm not gonna sit here and say that it couldn't be done by any member if need be. Just that it's no need and wouldn't be conducive to plot in this particular case.

Hell, Thing could call in a favor from his Omega Level nephew, Franklin, who is a MUTANT, and he could have thrown down against the P5 or something. But like I said, the P5 aren't worth Franklin's time.

AvX and the PF/P5 have been nothing but a let down. 👇

There's a damn good chance Sundipped Superman takes them down.

Originally posted by Stoic
Really? All Star was one of my all time favorite arcs, and I've read many. It's also in the top ten best written comics stories of all time as you mentioned. I thought of it as pure win. I even liked the movie.

It will always be a classic.

Originally posted by zopzop
Bro, the Avengers have access to the majority of the Infinity Gems (Prof. X is against Cyke so he'd kick his in too), yet they ain't using them because the P5 aren't even registering as any kind of "cosmic" threat, that's how watered down and nerfed the PF is in this arc.

Hell, Thing could call in a favor from his Omega Level nephew, Franklin, who is a MUTANT, and he could have thrown down against the P5 or something. But like I said, the P5 aren't worth Franklin's time.

AvX and the PF/P5 have been nothing but a let down. 👇

There's a damn good chance Sundipped Superman takes them down.

So basically you're discrediting the PF because the story is'nt written tailor made to suit your standards dispite the fact they haven't been challenged at all which is bullshit.

The writers obviously portray Wanda as the plot device here so screw the Gems. Sure would've helped though, the way they keep getting their asses handed to em.

Once again, no desirable external forces to play a outside role does not = weaksauce. Especially when nothing has been shown to effect them.

Like I said, I'm in the minority in not liking it.

Originally posted by Stoic
If someone came up to me and said that the entire arc was written by an intern, I wouldn't be surprised. The inconsistencies in the arc is what makes it fail.

Originally posted by Stoic
Which was due to incompetent writing, and the lack of knowledge of exactly how to approach such an immense power.

Bendis and Fraction are the two main writers of this fiasco . What else would you expect ?

Edit : Not to mention that Brevoort proudly proclaimed in an interview that this event was gonna piss off many , which is exactly what it has done .

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
And Galactus is now written where he should be, no shame in that.

Thanos Imperative didn't really have low feats... If anything they were seen as God's there to everyone else.

Tiamut didn't do anything to defend himself, while still dumb, it ended up with Mr Sinister absolutely mollywhopping the Phoenix 5 with some of his power... that was also waning. While I suspect they'll win in the end, the initial attack turned out awful for them.

Sue has the hyperspace weakness going for her.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Thanos Imperative - Millions of Celestials fighting Super Ego

Mr Sinister doing what he did to Tiamut - Ghaur doing that to Tiamut

Sue blowing through just an arm - Well, no worse than her actually destroying the most powerful Celestial.

They still wiped out the Multiverses most powerful minds. Tanked a couple UN's, and it took Adult Frank a kamikaze attack to take out Eson, some power beating the Phoenix 5 easily, etc, so there's that.

Originally posted by Stoic
But well written just one would turn him the hell out. An avatar of the Phoenix has tremendous TP, TK, Strength, Speed, and can not die. No way Superman beats even one well written Avatar. The nerf came directly after the idiot who wrote this mess realized that all of the Heroes on Earth combined would have no chance of defeating them if they decided to go all out. Superman sun dipped or otherwise has no business fighting abstract level characters and winning. Even 1/5th would be above some High Herald strong man.

Without much effort a Phoenix Avatar could, and should be able to devour a star.

someone slap this guy for being that dumb 😐

i mean it 😐