So by powerset you mean like this
Silver Surfer- The Silver Surfer wields "the power cosmic", absorbing and manipulating the universe's ambient cosmic energies. He can augment his strength to incalculable levels, and is almost totally indestructible. He can navigate space, hyperspace and dimensional barriers, and can fly at near-limitless speeds on his board, entering hyperspace when he exceeds light speed. He has even proven capable of time travel on occasion. The Surfer does not require food, drink, air or sleep, sustained entirely by converting matter into energy. He is immune to temperature extremes and most radiation, and can survive in vacuum environments such as outer space and hyperspace. He can analyze and manipulate matter and energy, and restructure or animate matter at will, even transmuting elements. He can heal living beings (though he cannot raise the dead), and has proven capable of revitalizing or evolving organic life on a planet wide scale. He can alter the size of himself or of other matter, cast illusions, fire energy blasts, form and manipulate energy constructs, manipulate gravity, absorb and discharge most forms of energy, and phase through solid matter. His senses enable him to detect objects and energies light years away, and to perceive matter and energy in subatomic detail; he can even see through time, and with concentration can achieve limited perception of past and future events in his general vicinity. The Surfer has demonstrated limited telepathic ability on occasion, and has proven able to influence human emotion and sensation.
More on Marvel.com: http://marvel.com/universe/Silver_Surfer#ixzz23J0SP9hY
Originally posted by ODGYou're right, silly me for using logic and real life.
Your statements don't serve as arguments here. You can say that superspeed reading can't grant you understanding or the ability to apply or innovate. But frankly, comic books have never established any such precedent or delineation. And you'd have to look to comics for such strict delineation because shallow examples from real life are as vacuous as they are deconstructable. Make dumb jocks watch film and study football formations and even they can start exploiting gaps in offense and become coaches/coordinators.
Unfortunately for you, even in comics, superspeed/memory and intelligence are distinct things - unless you're now trying to argue that Bart Allen's intelligence is superior to Bruce Wayne's, or any other genius in DC who doesn't have superspeed?
Originally posted by ODGYour point being?
Superman isn't the only superspeedster that's read crap at superspeeds and immediately applied what they learned.
Originally posted by ODGWell, that's ironic.
You've talked past everything I've stated.
Originally posted by ODGYes, there needs to be input data in order for the output to exist. I'm not sure what you think you're saying something revolutionary.
I've already addressed how "Memories, sensations, data, sensory input -- coming almost faster than I can handle it --" was quite literally, the very basis for Superman's calculations. So too, do I feel no need to repeat myself for the third time that Superman's experience should make his calculations concerning trajectory, etc. far easier -- to the point of simple intuition like experienced street-levelers even or beyond.
Street levelers now have super-brains that can precisely calculate the mass, vector and random balistics of opponents, and not even think about it? Your mind must be confussing "aproximating trajectories of bullets/attacks and dodging them" to "knowing the exact mass and vector of every bullet, ever fired at me, aswell as every one of its ballistics without even consciously wanting to".
I'll let that sink in for a while.
Just for emphasis, ODG is saying that this is something that this is standard experienced street-leveler stuff:
Originally posted by ODGYou're now trying to cast a shadow of a doubt over Paragon's abilities, to undermine that scan, while being completly baseless? Oh, dumby. That's cute. Come here, I'll give you a hug.
And, even assuming that Paragon's abilities are purely superpower-based, it is further unnecessary to reiterate that brainpower can easily be a reference to processing speed like computing power.
So in your mind, "super-brainpower" doesn't reffer to "super-intelligence" but actually to...the speed at which he percieves the information? Having more time to, for the lack of a better word, stare at it? Or perhaps you're again, using/hiding behind different words ie. 'processing speed' instead of intelligence - which is what it takes to process information, understand, apply and evolve it, because by doing so you'd admit your stance for what it it - laughable?
If I post a scan where Superman directly used "super-brainpower" instead of "intelligence", will you eat dog poop with cherry flavored cream on top?
Do I also need to mention that scene takes place exactly 3 pages before the one I posted early, which conclusively proves that his intelligene is a superpower?
http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/paragonsuperintelligence.jpg
I still can't believe somebody would ever think that speed and memory are the same thing with intelligence. Baffling, really.
Originally posted by ODGSince his super-brain is directly, and repeatedly attributed to greatly enhancing his understanding of complex technology and more, blatantly being put in contrast with what he normally was beforehand, it's safe to say that his intelligence is greater - since it's blatantly shown in comics that it is, even going as far as having other characters steal his powers and going smarter.
But Superman doesn't get inherently dumber the more he gets depowered. Functionally, yes. He cannot superprocess scenarios and information provided by his supersenses at high speeds. But he doesn't get inherently dumber or vice-versa. If that's the difference in opinion here, I'm happy basing mine off of evidence and leaving you with your own opinion.
But you can keep believing stupid things like speed and memory being what makes a guy intelligent.
Originally posted by PhilosophíaI was mildly interested in this conversation three weeks ago back when it was constructive and not your vagina bleeding over people not recognizing that Superman is inherently super intelligent only because of his powers, rather than functionally.
You're right, silly me for using logic and real life.Unfortunately for you, even in comics, superspeed/memory and intelligence are distinct things - unless you're now trying to argue that Bart Allen's intelligence is superior to Bruce Wayne's, or any other genius in DC who doesn't have superspeed?
Your point being?
This strawman is particularly dumb. I can't tell anymore whether that's intentional or not. Batman can take a few seconds and apply his accumulated knowledge of advanced forensics in seconds to a crime scene. Wally needs only moments with forensic books/encyclopedias to do the same. Batman does it more instinctually and naturally. Wally has to do it more laboriously (relative to his perception of time). The result ends up being more or less the same.
That superspeedsters that don't even have supersenses have displayed functional superintelligence via superspeed processing. A fact that chafes I'm sure, because it makes Superman a lil bit less special.
Originally posted by PhilosophíaSo somebody like Cap's never instinctually understood the ballistics, firepower, vector, speed, mass, resistance, random other factors necessary enough to perform a feat like deflecting a fired bullet off his shield, rebounding it off other surfaces, then back onto an opponent? Cap doesn't consciously perform random calculations in his head to do this. He just does. He knows how powerful a gun is, knows the speeds, angles... oh, wait... I'm just patronizing you with the completely obvious at this point.
Well, that's ironic.Yes, there needs to be input data in order for the output to exist. I'm not sure what you think you're saying something revolutionary.
Street levelers now have super-brains that can precisely calculate the mass, vector and random balistics of opponents, and not even think about it? Your mind must be confussing "aproximating trajectories of bullets/attacks and dodging them" to "knowing the exact mass and vector of every bullet, ever fired at me, aswell as every one of its ballistics without even consciously wanting to".
I'll let that sink in for a while.
Just for emphasis, ODG is saying that this is something that this is standard experienced street-leveler stuff:
http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/upgrades1.jpg
Anyway, my superundies don't bulge when Superman starts remembering the data he's accumulated concerning bullet calibers, starts processing vectors almost unconsciously and remembers Pete's favorite malt.
Originally posted by PhilosophíaActually I'm just recalling what I read of him and how Paragon duplicated Black Canary's martial arts skills in his original fight with the JLA. Not exactly a superpower but accumulated knowledge. /shrug
You're now trying to cast a shadow of a doubt over Paragon's abilities, to undermine that scan, while being completly baseless? Oh, dumby. That's cute. Come here, I'll give you a hug.http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt19/Max_Eisenhardt/Paragonpowers.png
Originally posted by PhilosophíaI've answered this question before. Feel free to stop repeating yourself. Super computers are "super" because of processing speed. Speedsters who aren't naturally geniuses or insanely educated can imitate their talents or apply such knowledge immediately via super reading.
So in your mind, "super-brainpower" doesn't reffer to "super-intelligence" but actually to...the speed at which he percieves the information? Having more time to, for the lack of a better word, stare at it? Or perhaps you're again, using/hiding behind different words ie. 'processing speed' instead of intelligence - which is what it takes to process information, understand, apply and evolve it, because by doing so you'd admit your stance for what it it - laughable?
Originally posted by PhilosophíaI honestly do not even see where, beyond getting punched in the mouth and missing with heat vision, Superman is directly using "super brainpower" instead of "intelligence." I think you've just confused yourself. At the very least, you're not being clear with whatever point you're trying to make.
If I post a scan where Superman directly used "super-brainpower" instead of "intelligence", will you eat dog poop with cherry flavored cream on top?http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt19/Max_Eisenhardt/superbrainintelligence1.jpg][IMG]http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt19/Max_Eisenhardt/th_superbrainintelligence1.jpg
http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt19/Max_Eisenhardt/superbrainintelligence2.jpg][IMG]http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt19/Max_Eisenhardt/th_superbrainintelligence2.jpgDo I also need to mention that scene takes place exactly 3 pages before the one I posted early, which conclusively proves that his intelligene is a superpower?
http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/paragonsuperintelligence.jpg
And no, I'm not surprised that a 5-time Nobel Prize winning supergenius that's already invented a suit that can basically do what Amazo does, can use x-ray vision and super-processing to recognize a watch that emits red sunlight. You are, apparently.
Originally posted by PhilosophíaWe both recognize Superman as super intelligent. I think it's a functional byproduct of of him applying his Kryptonian powerset. You think it's a natural product of his Kryptonian powerset. A distinction without a difference except a few important ones: (i) you believe that Superman gets inherently dumber as he gets depowered and gets super-geniuser as he amps; and (ii) apparently all Kryptonians are inherent super-geniuses.
I still can't believe somebody would ever think that speed and memory are the same thing with intelligence. Baffling, really.Since his super-brain is directly, and repeatedly attributed to greatly enhancing his understanding of complex technology and more, blatantly being put in contrast with what he normally was beforehand, it's safe to say that his intelligence is greater - since it's blatantly shown in comics that it is, even going as far as having other characters steal his powers and going smarter.
But you can keep believing stupid things like speed and memory being what makes a guy intelligent.
Obviously, you have no proof of either proposition. Which is something that would convince me that supergeniusing is a Kryptonian superpower. And while I have scads of evidence to the contrary, I'll just refer you to your collection of Superman comics where he fights people with Kryptonian powersets who aren't supergeniuses already. I frankly don't care enough to disprove such a notion. Wasn't three weeks ago, am not right now. Your theory hasn't achieved much validation and I honestly cannot think of a single future argument where this distinction without a difference will reappear, i.e., I just don't see you trolling people with this myth in other arguments/threads.
So, don't care. Agree to disagree.
Pretty much.
Surfer would be my choice. Practical applications (being able to create structures like houses and other items in seconds via PC which are actual matter and not just green energy constructs, telepathy for dealing with other people, etc), as well as things like space travel and what not. Also able to sustain yourself on ambient energy alone and not have to worry about eating, getting sick, etc.
