Which Powerset Would You Choose?

Hey guys, no one cares. Pick who you would want and leave it at that. You're arguing about something that has nothing to do with picking the powerset you want by trying to determine if intelligence is part of the package for someone else's pick.

Congratulations!! If you think super intelligence is a part of the fictional powerset you are never going to have anyways, then you just won a fictional super brain.

If you don't think intelligence or any variation of it is part of the powerset, I hope you enjoy the rest of your imaginary powerset while you daydream about how awesome it would be to have those powers.

Originally posted by Starscream M
just because you have time doesn't mean you can figure it out eventually

people are limited by their intellectual capacity

some people can literally study calculus for 10 years and still not get it

others might look at it for 3 weeks and understand it well

you can't assume thor, just because he has time, can eventually comprehend very complex things if he doesn't have that intellectual capacity to begin with

Think about it. A Human being is like hmm I wonder what's at the center of the Earth. You with Thor's powers, Oh I know.

A Human I wonder what space/time look like, you with Thor's senses I've already seen it.

Thor also has Superhuman reaction times so he has some processing power to his brain as well.

Originally posted by Philosophía
Just because you can remember what you've read and seen, doesn't mean that you're able to fully comprehend and advance in those areas beyond what humanity has done. You're confusing memory with intelligence.

Just because Thor can see "weak spots in space/time" doesn't mean he can suddenly percieve (nevermind, like discussed, comprehend and advance what he percieves) everything else the humans can't see - it just means that in that mini-series he was able to see weak spots in space/time in that odd dimension and...that's it.

If I give you perfect memory and immortality, you wouldn't be able to surpass humanity's technological achievements. It doesn't work that way, you're only as good as the technology of your time, never far ahead, especially not to the level where you'd be "bleh" at what humanity has achieved.

There are thousands of people, everyday, working in every area of technology, and more. Many more of them than you are and the vast, vast majority much smarter.

Why because you have unlimited time to try every conceivable permutation of everything.

You also have resources at your command no Human Being could possibly have.

It wasn't just in that one arc he has Godly senses that allow him to perceive things no human being can do. Shifts in time/it's not like it's a one time deal.

Also yeah when you have such advanced magical abilities and technology in some cases that you can transmute matter from one thing to another yeah human technology is kind of bleh.

Originally posted by Blair Wind
Hey guys, no one cares. Pick who [b]you would want and leave it at that. You're arguing about something that has nothing to do with picking the powerset you want by trying to determine if intelligence is part of the package for someone else's pick.

Congratulations!! If you think super intelligence is a part of the fictional powerset you are never going to have anyways, then you just won a fictional super brain.

If you don't think intelligence or any variation of it is part of the powerset, I hope you enjoy the rest of your imaginary powerset while you daydream about how awesome it would be to have those powers. [/B]

Originally posted by Philosophía
They don't matter unless you have the ability to comprehend and apply what you see/percieve. Which Superman did.

Intelligence isn't about reading fast and memorizing. It's about understanding. Adapting. Evolving what you see. All of which Superman has done, even to somebody like Batman, nigh-instantly:

On the spot, he can see ways to improve on Batman’s basic schematics and can do precision miniature work better than his machines.
http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/improveschematics.jpg

I don't understand why Superman cannot improve Batman's basic schematics with superspeed and superperception.

Superman might lose the ability to superprocess information and superperceive stuff if he comes under a red sun, but he doesn't become more dimwitted.

I'll just add Thor has a higher perception of reality than any human being. If you honestly feel you are not going to get smarter or know far more than any human being could ever figure out. I think you are sadly mistaken.

Originally posted by Newjak
Actually you could beat out the smartest person in the world with that powerset.

Why because you have unlimited time to try every conceivable permutation of everything.

You also have resources at your command no Human Being could possibly have.

It wasn't just in that one arc he has Godly senses that allow him to perceive things no human being can do. Shifts in time/it's not like it's a one time deal.

Also yeah when you have such advanced magical abilities and technology in some cases that you can transmute matter from one thing to another yeah human technology is kind of bleh.

While you try one permutation of what you've learned, there are thousands out there, trying thousands of other permutations, a big part of which you haven't even thought of because, even if you've read everything of that domain (we'll get to that part in a second), you're still one man, limited by your own intelligence. There are thousands out there smarter than you. One of them willl get the permutation faster than you. Then they'll move on, let the others know. Another round of permutations. You'll still be trying to find the right one for the first batch.

And that's just one area.

There's thousands of people, trying thousands of permutations, on dozens of areas.

You also have to start somewhere. You start reading. You go say into biology, and read whatever you can find. It takes you dozens of years to caught up with the time you started. By that time, there are dozens of others of materials that are out. That you must understand, in order to advance. While you're competing with thousands of other competent, more intelligent people trying to do the same things, in thousands of ways.

You can't even hope to surpass humanity in one domain, much less every one of them (biology, chemistry, physics, etc.).

We're also assuming that's all you do while you are Thor. Because if you're bouncing off all of the other things you're doing (going in space, touching yourself), it's even more stupid.

And this is all assuming one, big, ridiculous thing - that you're intelligent enough to comprehend everything you read, to a ridiculous degree (in the dozens of studying areas).

You've still failed to provide scans of Thor's senses beyond inconsequential "sense weak spot in space/time", by the way.

Originally posted by Philosophía
I wish I could send the "you're not as resourceful as I thought" part back at you, but I already knew how resourceful you are, sadly.

While you try one permutation of what you've learned, there are thousands out there, trying thousands of other permutations, a big part of which you haven't even thought of because, even if you've read everything of that domain (we'll get to that part in a second), you're still one man, limited by your own intelligence. There are thousands out there smarter than you. One of them willl get the permutation faster than you. Then they'll move on, let the others know. Another round of permutations. You'll still be trying to find the right one for the first batch.

And that's just one area.

There's thousands of people, trying thousands of permutations, on dozens of areas.

You also have to start somewhere. You start reading. You go say into biology, and read whatever you can find. It takes you dozens of years to caught up with the time you started. By that time, there are dozens of others of materials that are out. That you must understand, in order to advance. While you're competing with thousands of other competent, more intelligent people trying to do the same things, in thousands of ways.

You can't even hope to surpass humanity in one domain, much less every one of them (biology, chemistry, physics, etc.).

We're also assuming that's all you do while you are Thor. Because if you're bouncing off all of the other things you're doing (going in space, touching yourself), it's even more stupid.

And this is all assuming one, big, ridiculous thing - that you're intelligent enough to comprehend everything you read, to a ridiculous degree (in the dozens of studying areas).

You've still failed to provide scans of Thor's senses beyond inconsequential "sense weak spot in space/time", by the way.

I have a magical hammer that allows me to do a million more things in one hour than any human being could hope to do in a lifetime.

I also have a higher perception of reality so by default I know more than any human being could possibly know. And I also have a degree of Super Reaction times that allow me to calculate things faster.

Originally posted by ODG
I don't understand why Superman cannot improve Batman's basic schematics with superspeed and superperception

Memory and time doesn't make one genius.

Staring at something, even if you have more time, doesn't mean you'll be understand and change it for the better, if you don't have the intellectual capacity to do it.

Superman's super-intelligence is to a degree that he doesn't even have to think about what he sees, as it's interpreted to a ridiculous degree by his super-brain:

“Without even thinking about it, I know the ballistic of every bullet Bloodsport’s fired, now and before. The vector and mass of each of Riot’s bodies—“.

http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/upgrades1.jpg

And also, we get back to when Paragon, who copies superpowers, copied his super-brain, and instantly recognized a complex mechanism (and his brainpower was specifically distinguished from his super-perception ie. X-ray)

http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/paragonsuperintelligence.jpg

Originally posted by Philosophía
Because he has to understand in order to do that. Once he understands, he has to know how to evolve it. That takes intelligence.

Memory and time doesn't make one genius.

Staring at something, even if you have more time, doesn't mean you'll be understand and change it for the better, if you don't have the intellectual capacity to do it.

Superman's super-intelligence is to a degree that he doesn't even have to think about what he sees, as it's interpreted to a ridiculous degree by his super-brain:

“Without even thinking about it, I know the ballistic of every bullet Bloodsport’s fired, now and before. The vector and mass of each of Riot’s bodies—“.

http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/upgrades1.jpg

And also, we get back to when Paragon, who copies superpowers, copied his super-brain, and instantly recognized a complex mechanism (and his brainpower was specifically distinguished from his super-perception ie. X-ray)

http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/paragonsuperintelligence.jpg

PreReboot Bart was a genius and that was iirc mostly attributed to him being able to retain anything he read in super speed mode.

Originally posted by Newjak
*Yawn*

I have a magical hammer that allows me to do a million more things in one hour than any human being could hope to do in a lifetime.

I also have a higher perception of reality so by default I know more than any human being could possibly know. And I also have a degree of Super Reaction times that allow me to calculate things faster.

It's like giving you a microscope and biology book, and you put the cover under it.

Your "higher perception of reality" amounts, up until now, "seeing weak spot in space/time", which doesn't say anything else, no matter how much you'd want it to. Certainly not to the level of where "you'd see things no human ever will". And then we get back to the intelligence/comprehension part, even if you se them.

I hope you're not suggesting Thor is now going to superspeed his way into advancing humanity, with that last part.

Also, you should lose the "yawn" attitude (not to mention your first "not as resourceful as I thought part), especially now that you're a mod. A position which I'm still wondering how you landed in.

Don't think the mod position will stop me from pointing out every stupid thing you say and make you owe up to it, though.

Originally posted by Philosophía
Because he has to understand in order to do that. Once he understands, he has to know how to evolve it. That takes intelligence.

Memory and time doesn't make one genius.

Staring at something, even if you have more time, doesn't mean you'll be understand and change it for the better, if you don't have the intellectual capacity to do it.

I don't see distinctions here.

Originally posted by Philosophía
Superman's super-intelligence is to a degree that he doesn't even have to think about what he sees, as it's interpreted to a ridiculous degree by his super-brain:

“Without even thinking about it, I know the ballistic of every bullet Bloodsport’s fired, now and before. The vector and mass of each of Riot’s bodies—“.

http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/upgrades1.jpg

And also, we get back to when Paragon, who copies superpowers, copied his super-brain, and instantly recognized a complex mechanism (and his brainpower was specifically distinguished from his super-perception ie. X-ray)

http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/paragonsuperintelligence.jpg

I think it can be fairly argued that processing speed can be used to describe brainpower as much as it does computing power.

For you, superintelligence is separate. For me, superprocessing and superperception provide functional superintelligence. Either way, he's supersmart. There's no distinction worth a difference there. The only real time there would be a difference would be that by your reasoning, Superman becomes more feeble-minded as he gets depowered. And that's a drastic consequence that hasn't been illustrated on-panel and I'm fairly sure also one you don't agree with. There's disconnect here.

Originally posted by Philosophía
Just because you have the hammer doesn't mean you're intelligent enough to know what to do with it, what type of permutations and experiments you have to do, in order to surpass the cummulated effort of thousands of others, in dozens of domains, that are smarter and constantly evolving.

It's like giving you a microscope and biology book, and you put the cover under it.

Your "higher perception of reality" amounts, up until now, "seeing weak spot in space/time", which doesn't say anything else, no matter how much you'd want it to. Certainly not to the level of where "you'd see things no human ever will". And then we get back to the intelligence/comprehension part, even if you se them.

I hope you're not suggesting Thor is now going to superspeed his way into advancing humanity, with that last part.

Also, you should lose the "yawn" attitude (not to mention your first "not as resourceful as I thought part), especially now that you're a mod. A position which I'm still wondering how you landed in.

Don't think the mod position will stop me from pointing out every stupid thing you say and make you owe up to it, though.

Geez I wonder how people ever figured anything out. Could it be they built up over time by trying different things and seeing what worked.

I wonder what someone with unlimited perfect memory, an unlimited amount of time and resources no one on planet Earth can duplicate could do 😛

You're telling me being able to 'LOOK' at space/time and look for a weakness in it so he could punch a whole through it into the outer dimension it was located in doesn't give someone a higher perception of the world around them? That somehow is not an advantage a human being could not duplicate?

Hell I would advance Humanities understanding of the cosmos and space/time and how the universe is represented by magnitude's of order in the first hour I had my abilities.

I like how you some how think you are like exposing me to the world or something 😛

Originally posted by ODG
Understanding can be a byproduct of superprocessing and superperception. And you ought to agree with this, since understanding has been, on-panel, a simple byproduct of superprocessing.

I don't see distinctions here.

If you're using superprocessing in terms of his ability to comprehend the information he's receiving (input received through superspeed and perceptions) as a superpower, then we're on the same wavelength.

On the other hand, if you're saying that receiving information at superspeed through the super-perceptions (X-Ray etc.) is all that's needed for intelligence (ie superprocessing - the ability to actually understand and comprehend complex information), then that's idiotic.

Originally posted by ODG
That first scan also has Superman's mind flooded with "Memories, sensations, data, sensory input -- coming almost faster than I can handle it --" Obviously superprocessing of information (which I never argued must be a concentrated conscious effort -- especially when you have vast experience doing it) and superperception are at work, and by all rights appear to be the very basis for Superman's calculations.

Time (superspeed) and information-retaining (super perception and memory) doesn't make one intelligent, they're only the inputs, what makes one intelligent is the ability to comprehend that information, even when it's extremly complex, which is a distinctive ability, one which is a superpower in itself for Superman.

Originally posted by Newjak
MAGICAL Hammer. If Thor wants to see the effects of putting something X under something Y condition it's as easy as saying Hammer do it.

Geez I wonder how people ever figured anything out. Could it be they built up over time by trying different things and seeing what worked.

I wonder what someone with unlimited perfect memory, an unlimited amount of time and resources no one on planet Earth can duplicate could do 😛

You're telling me being able to 'LOOK' at space/time and look for a weakness in it so he could punch a whole through it into the outer dimension it was located in doesn't give someone a higher perception of the world around them? That somehow is not an advantage a human being could not duplicate?

Hell I would advance Humanities understanding of the cosmos and space/time and how the universe is represented by magnitude's of order in the first hour I had my abilities.

I like how you some how think you are like exposing me to the world or something 😛

If you don't know what you're searching for, then you don't know what to tell your hammer to do. In order to know what you search for, you have to attain enough knowledge about the domain you're doing to research in (dozens of domains with a zillion sub-domains), be smart enough to understand what you've just read and have the intelligence to know what to do next (ie. thousands of exploratory tests, or other) in order to advance that field.

Unfortunately for you, the actual intelligence is not there - you have just time and memory, time in which you can't even read enough to catch up with present-day advancements in every field. Not only that but, in those same fields, there are dozens of people working, simultaneously, performing every test you never thought of, succeeding, moving on to the same test, rinse and repeat until the end of humanity.

You'll never catch up to them, in any main area. Surpassing them to the point where you can't take it any more is, frankly, laughable.

Seeing a weakness in space/time is just that - seeing a weakness in space time. Saying "but doesn't that imply much more?!?!" doesn't suddenly mean that Thor is able to percieve everything Superman and Surfer do, not even close. It doesn't mean anything other than what it showed.

I'm not exposing you to the world, many already know "how resourceful" you are.

Thor or Superman's powers would be cool to have but if I had to choose it would be Magneto's power-set.

Because I would get the chance to act like a cartoonishly evil version of Magneto. And by God, would I milk it for all it's worth.

*cue thunder and lighting*

"All of the pies. I WILL HAVE ALL OF THE PIES AND CAKE! MUHAHAHAHAHAHA!"

Originally posted by Philosophía
See, now you've changed terms. This is the first time you've used supreprocessing - which is what I'm talking about, processing/comprehending/understanding - as a superpower of his, when before, you said superprocessing is actually a by-product of his superspeed and superperception.

If you're using superprocessing in terms of his ability to comprehend the information he's receiving (input received through superspeed and perceptions) as a superpower, then we're on the same wavelength.

Originally posted by Philosophía
On the other hand, if you're saying that receiving information at superspeed through the super-perceptions (X-Ray etc.) is all that's needed for intelligence (ie superprocessing - the ability to actually understand and comprehend complex information), then that's idiotic.

Yes, all that input comes from his perceptions and speed, but that doesn't make one intelligent. What makes him intelligent is his super-processing - the ability to process that information, and translate it into understandable data as an output - every balistic, vector and mass of each of Riot's bodies - and he doesn't even have to consciously analyze them, for his super-brain to translate and process it into that.

Never said that Superman's computations in that scene had to be a strictly laborious conscious calculation. I said the opposite in fact. Superman's memories and powers were being restored and thus his experience, of which he has quite a bit of. I don't think Superman has to try too hard anymore to figure out trajectories these days. Even experienced street-levelers don't.

Originally posted by Philosophía
Time (superspeed) and information-retaining (super perception and memory) doesn't make one intelligent, they're only the inputs, what makes one intelligent is the ability to comprehend that information, even when it's extremly complex, which is a distinctive ability, one which is a superpower in itself for Superman.

Originally posted by Stoic
Just like the title asks, which power set would you take, and why?

Shaman X-Man.

Originally posted by ODG
Superprocessing is superspeed. Ability to think faster.

I can give an idiot a book explaining complex quantum physics equations, but even if he has a vast amount of time, even if he gets to the point where he remembers what's written on every page, he still wouldn't understand the why, or be able to apply that, to evolve it, because he simply doesn't have the intellectual capacity.

You can even give the kid superspeed, and nothing will change. 🙂

Originally posted by ODG
DCnU Superman superprocessed medical dictionaries to perform difficult surgery. He didn't just intuit how to perform surgery on Lois simply by looking at her body with x-rays and trying to deduce how to heal her with sueprspeed. Various Flashes have pretty much learned whatever they've wanted to learn the same way.

Of course. But I'm not sure why you felt the need to point this out, since nobody said otherwise. Knowledge is obviously needed - but the information is just input, the fact that he understood everything he read and then applied it, is what matters as far as intelligence is concerned.

The same way his super-intelligence helps him recognize Bloodsport's balistics, or Riot's vector and mass, instinctively, without even consciously analyzing and processing the data. The same way he can comprehend complex kryptonian mechanisms, or Batman tech - and be able to improve on it. That's his super-brain at work, and that super-brain is not soley dependent of speed, memory and senses.

Originally posted by ODG
And again, Superman in his current state is supersmart (inherently or functionally). There is no distinction worth a difference there. But Superman doesn't get inherently dumber as he depowers or inherently smarter as he amps. I don't see how you can espouse such a position when neither has ever occurred on-panel.

http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/upgrades1.jpg

😐

There's also Paragon using Superman's "brainpower" superpower, and having a better understanding of things.

http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/paragonsuperintelligence.jpg

It's actually a superpower that increases intelligence - ie. the ability to understand and apply.

Originally posted by Philosophía
We're not talking about how fast, we're talking about processing/understanding information. We already established that Superman has superspeed (the ability to read vast amounts of information in a short time), super-memory (the ability to store that information for undefined periods of time) and super-perception (X-Ray vision, microscopic vision etc.). That was never in doubt. But those serve for the input, what we're talking about is his ability to process/comprehend/understand that information - his superprocessing - no matter how complex (superspeed is present here, too, but not in the way that it affects his ability to process that information, but only in the time it takes to do so - which, if the intellectual/super-brain ability isn't present, is inconsequential, no matter how much time/how fast you are)

I can give an idiot a book explaining complex quantum physics equations, but even if he has a vast amount of time, even if he gets to the point where he remembers what's written on every page, he still wouldn't understand the why, or be able to apply that, to evolve it, because he simply doesn't have the intellectual capacity.

You can even give the kid superspeed, and nothing will change. 🙂

Originally posted by Philosophía
Of course. But I'm not sure why you felt the need to point this out, since nobody said otherwise. Knowledge is obviously needed - but the information is just input, the fact that he understood everything he read and then applied it, is what matters as far as intelligence is concerned.

Originally posted by Philosophía
The same way his super-intelligence helps him recognize Bloodsport's balistics, or Riot's vector and mass, instinctively, without even consciously analyzing and processing the data. The same way he can comprehend complex kryptonian mechanisms, or Batman tech - and be able to improve on it. That's his super-brain at work, and that super-brain is not soley dependent of speed, memory and senses.

] There's literally a scan we just talked about in which, after his super-intelligence kicked in, his understanding of the things around him sky-rocketed compared to his normal self.

http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/upgrades1.jpg

😐

There's also Paragon using Superman's "brainpower" superpower, and having a better understanding of things.

http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/paragonsuperintelligence.jpg

It's actually a superpower that increases intelligence - ie. the ability to understand and apply.

But Superman doesn't get inherently dumber the more he gets depowered. Functionally, yes. He cannot superprocess scenarios and information provided by his supersenses at high speeds. But he doesn't get inherently dumber or vice-versa. If that's the difference in opinion here, I'm happy basing mine off of evidence and leaving you with your own opinion.

This is a hard one.
Everyday I pretend I'm whirling Thor's hammer (that's right I love Mjolnir).

It's between Superman and Silver Surfer

With Surfer I can heal others, create force fields, cosmic awareness, absorb most energy and matter.

With Superman I have instant speed, fast thinking speed, super learning.

Is Silver Surfer immortal?
Can Superman live indefinitely (if he sundips)?