Originally posted by h1a8A blanket statement was made that Cap's shield is more durable than Mjolnir-- so the thickness/heaviness/smaller surface area of Mjolnir compared to the shield shouldn't matter. If the shield was the more durable item, Mjolnir would have been cracked/broken and the shield would have been unscathed... But that isn't what happened.
Thickness of material is a factor of durability as well as cross sectional Area.
The material making up Cap's shield is more durable than the material making Mjolnir. But since Mjolnir is thicker and heavier with smaller cross sectional area (can penetrate something much larger better) then we see why it was able to dent Cap's shield.
Now if someone would have said that the shield material is proportionally more durable than Mjolnir (ie. a 1 inch cube of the shield is more durable than a 1 inch cube of Mjolnir) then I would have been more inclined to agree. However, that isn't what was said.
Originally posted by h1a8From a physical standpoint, KT can obviously strike harder with Mjolnir than average Thor-- so yeah, I agree. That, however, changes absolutely nothing I said. In the scene I posted, Mjolnir was clearly more durable than the shield-- the shield was dented, and Mjolnir was unscathed.
But Mjolnir in possession under KT>>>>>>>>>>>>Mjolnir in possession of Thor.KT also decapitated Destroyer with one hammer throw.
KT did wreck the Destroyer with a hammer throw. However, said throw was charged to the max with KT's power. Conversely, KT did not strike the shield with a charged strike-- it was a purely physical blow. Therefore, that showing isn't comparable at all.
Originally posted by h1a8Mjolnir's other showings have already been taken into consideration. Thanks.
Lastly, comics are inconsistent. We see Mjolnir break upon a slight OF Thor's strength, Destroyer's normal blasts, Thor's Godblast, etc. So Mjolnir denting Cap's shield must be taken as along with the other showings.
Originally posted by Galan007this is what I was saying. I didn't imply anything else.
A blanket statement was made that Cap's shield is more durable than Mjolnir-- so the thickness/heaviness/smaller surface area of Mjolnir compared to the shield shouldn't matter. If the shield was the more durable item, Mjolnir would have been cracked/broken and the shield would have been unscathed... But that isn't what happened.Now if someone would have said that the shield material is proportionally more durable than Mjolnir (ie. a 1 inch cube of the shield is more durable than a 1 inch cube of Mjolnir) then I would have been more inclined to agree. However, that isn't what was said.
IMO mjolnir is more durable when KT is in possession of it than Thor.
From a physical standpoint, KT can obviously strike harder with Mjolnir than average Thor-- so yeah, I agree. That, however, changes absolutely nothing I said. In the scene I posted, Mjolnir was clearly more durable than the shield-- the shield was dented, and Mjolnir was unscathed.KT did wreck the Destroyer with a hammer throw. However, said throw was charged to the max with KT's power. Conversely, KT did not strike the shield with a charged strike-- it was a purely physical blow. Therefore, that showing isn't comparable at all.
Originally posted by h1a8
this is what I was saying. I didn't imply anything else.IMO mjolnir is more durable when KT is in possession of it than Thor.
This is because its of it decapitating Destroyer. Assuming it was reinforced only when it struck Destroyer and not ANY amount when it struck the shield is faulty. Either we should accept that the hammer was reinforced more than normal when it dented Caps shield (to make the continuity of the hammer's showings more consistent) or we just dismiss it as bad writing.
Also , how much force would be needed for Mjolnir to crack an egg ?
Originally posted by h1a8Poor logic.
IMO mjolnir is more durable when KT is in possession of it than Thor.
This is because its of it decapitating Destroyer. Assuming it was reinforced only when it struck Destroyer and not ANY amount when it struck the shield is faulty. Either we should accept that the hammer was reinforced more than normal when it dented Caps shield (to make the continuity of the hammer's showings more consistent) or we just dismiss it as bad writing.
Mjolnir was empowered/amped/charged by KT in an illustrated and narrated manner when it vanquished Desak in the Destroyer... It was not empowered/amped/charged by KT in an illustrated or narrated manner when it dented Cap's shield.
Again: in one instance KT used a powered-up throw. In the other he used a purely physical/non-powered-up strike. These scenes aren't comparable. Please stop trying to compare them.
Originally posted by h1a8
Superboy prime's heat vision (hv) went through Superman's shoulder like he was a ghost. That means the hv was over a thousand times more powerful than Superman's durability. I doubt that the shield is a thousand or more times durable than Superman. Personally I'm not sure if the shield can withstand the core of a star for more than a few moments. We know Superman can, hell Superman can withstand black holes, yet Prime's hv still went through him like a ghost.
I don't know about any of the other trials, but, assuming Captain America's new shield is like the old one, Prime's heat vision isn't likely to do anything to it no matter how hot you think it is.
For Captain America's shield is reflective.
Almost mirror-like.
And metal far less reflective or durable in nature has tanked SBP vision when Superboy Prime himself was at standard, not weakened, power levels.
(Jay Garrick saves Flash from PrimeVision with his helmet)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source: Infinite Crisis #4
Writer: Geoff Johns
Pencillers: Phil Jimenez, George Perez, & Ivan Reis
Date: March 2006
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http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Infinite_Crisis_Vol_1_4
Originally posted by h1a8
Your proof is this rule:If an attack can't damage ANY object then it would take a force over 999 trillion times greater to damage it.
Well an egg is ANY object but fails at your rule. Thus your rule is false.
Now as far as my proof. I always give conservative lower bound estimates. This means the actual amount is much higher.
The level of penetration proves it. For example, a small insect can't penetrate the surface of water because the force of it's weight is less than the strength of the surface tension. But an object 1000 times more massive will.
Note: floating in water =/= not breaking the surface tensionLet's ignore my numbers and say I was wrong. Then it is still clear that penetrating something like a ghost shows many times that of what is being penetrated. I doubt that the shield is many times the durability of Superman, by feats. I'll be back later.
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
I don't know about any of the other trials, but, assuming Captain America's new shield is like the old one, Prime's heat vision isn't likely to do anything to it no matter how hot you think it is.For Captain America's shield is reflective.
Almost mirror-like.
And metal far less reflective or durable in nature has tanked SBP vision when Superboy Prime himself was at standard, not weakened, power levels.
(Jay Garrick saves Flash from PrimeVision with his helmet)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source: Infinite Crisis #4
Writer: Geoff Johns
Pencillers: Phil Jimenez, George Perez, & Ivan Reis
Date: March 2006
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Infinite_Crisis_Vol_1_4
The shield isn't that much durable than Superman though. Sure it is more durable but not many times more durable. Prime's hv went through Superman without the slightest resistance. It will definitely penetrate the shield as well.
Prove that the helmet is less durable than Cap's shield when under the speed force.
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
How hard do you think that KT or Thor can pinch themselves ?Also , how much force would be needed for Mjolnir to crack an egg ?
Very hard
As much force as your hand needs to crack it.
Originally posted by Galan007
Poor logic.Mjolnir was empowered/amped/charged by KT in an illustrated and narrated manner when it vanquished Desak in the Destroyer... It was not empowered/amped/charged by KT in an illustrated or narrated manner when it dented Cap's shield.
Again: in one instance KT used a powered-up throw. In the other he used a purely physical/non-powered-up strike. These scenes aren't comparable. Please stop trying to compare them.
The hammer doesn't have to show it is charged to prove extra durability. Thor's hammer is already more durable than normal Uru without showing it is charged. We know this by feats. Showing a charge can prove extra destructive force or power behind the throw, not necessarily extra durability.
The scenes are comparable because of the damage done Period
Originally posted by h1a8
The shield isn't that much durable than Superman though. Sure it is more durable but not many times more durable. Prime's hv went through Superman without the slightest resistance. It will definitely penetrate the shield as well.Prove that the helmet is less durable than Cap's shield when under the speed force.
Very hard
As much force as your hand needs to crack it.
Lol...WTF? 😕