Good point Sorrow. We've seen what Armaggedon power did to two elites.
http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll121/kingaholu/Hulk%20feats/Armcheddoneasilyhandlingprofhulk2.jpg
http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll121/kingaholu/Hulk%20feats/ArmcheddoneasilyhandlingprofHUlk4.jpg
But he was unable to even give WBH pause let alone damage him.
Originally posted by Damborgson
I don't see WBH no selling what Thor hit the destroyer with personally. The anti-force, and the utter pounding it withstood while animated by a mortal is no small feat. I could see Hulk quickly healing of course to the point where it wouldn't be shown, but the damage should show initially.Well not indefinetely of course. But what could hold up indefinitely to WBH? What the destroyer needs to do is hold enough to get the forum win, and it very well could.
Depends how you see it. Thor's staggered and hurt a lot of amazingly powerful beings with that hammer.
The gap in strength could be made up by the raw power the destroyer possesses. It's blasts have broken Mjolnir, and it's fists have grooved it. Not to mention it's disintegration beam is capable of killing Thor with one exposure to it.
If Loki felt like saying "I'll teach you mortal to mess with me" and slugged it out, yeah Hulk will win. But using striking wisely, energy, illusions, etc, I'd give it to the destroyer.
Well i dont doubt that even WBH has less hard durability than the destroyer but his Hf more than makes up for that in terms of damage soak which is why i see him outlasting the armor.The destroyers feats are impressive but nothing i saw Thor dish out was as powerful as what WBH is packing or even within the same ballpark really (anitforce included).
On the other hand unlike Hulk once the destroyer gets damaged it doesnt have a healing factor of similar strength. Even if the destroyer was capable of sending holes through hulk with every blast (which considering Odin force Thor tanked the beam, is NOT likely) hulk would literally be healing almost as fast as the wounds open and would not really be slowed down by such attacks.
Originally posted by DTM
The Destroyers armor is at least as strong as Uru, possibly stronger, so I dont think Hulk can even dent him, let alone beat him in a fight.
It's actually much stronger than base Uru, as is Mjolnir, but it turns out that it is also stronger than Mjolnir itself. Just wanted to get the facts straight. I'm still undecided on this battle though. However, I don't see a stomp happening on either side of the field.
Originally posted by Naija boy
Well i dont doubt that even WBH has less hard durability than the destroyer but his Hf more than makes up for that in terms of damage soak which is why i see him outlasting the armor.The destroyers feats are impressive but nothing i saw Thor dish out was as powerful as what WBH is packing or even within the same ballpark really (anitforce included).On the other hand unlike Hulk once the destroyer gets damaged it doesnt have a healing factor of similar strength. Even if the destroyer was capable of sending holes through hulk with every blast (which considering Odin force Thor tanked the beam, is NOT likely) hulk would literally be healing almost as fast as the wounds open and would not really be slowed down by such attacks.
HF's can only take so much. Even the best like Wolverine's and Hulk's. The HF would be the reason the fight would drag out pretty much, but I don't see it at all unlikely to believe,
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Fights/ThorvsThanos02.jpg
^ the antiforce was plenty powerful. Thanosi may not have been Thanos, but they were as close they get basically. The destroyer no sold it. While possessed by a mortal. The destroyer also stood up to Odinforced empowered Zelia's creation which was a combination of the entire Dark god army iirc. The fact that Loki substantially powers the armor more is bordering on ridiculous.
That is assuming Hulk will damage it though. The Hulk's nature in and of itself is what guarantees that he will eventually break it. But the durability it posses ensures it wouldn't be any time soon, and most certainly not before Loki used the destroyers' power against Hulk.
That would be the Balder Destroyer though. Who at the time was also possessed by his mortal form. That would have still been more of a testament to OF Thor's durability than it would a low showing for the armor.
I'd bet money on him being substantially slowed by attacks that are considerably > To the ones that Barbequed Classic Thor. I'd bet also that the beams capable of splitting Mjolnir would be superior to what the Hulk has faced. In the end it would come down to me to whether Loki finishes him (which would be within his capability) or plays with him, and finds himself getting overwhelmed. Overall, the destroyer should take it. And that the Hulk is even causing doubt of the outcome is something I'd never have thought of back in the day.
Originally posted by carver9
Would you consider Nul hammer "base" Uru Stoic?
No because it had an enchantment on it. It's the enchantments that make the weapons more powerful, and there is proof that a being possessing more of the power that enchanted the weapons themselves, allows for the weapons to become more durable, as well as fire off more powerful shots.
Loki would not or should not make a difference in the durability of the Destroyer, because he does not possess the Odin Force.
Originally posted by DamborgsonNicely said.
I'd bet money on him being substantially slowed by attacks that are considerably > To the ones that Barbequed Classic Thor. I'd bet also that the beams capable of splitting Mjolnir would be superior to what the Hulk has faced. In the end it would come down to me to whether Loki finishes him (which would be within his capability) or plays with him, and finds himself getting overwhelmed. Overall, the destroyer should take it. And that the Hulk is even causing doubt of the outcome is something I'd never have thought of back in the day.
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Fights/ThorvsThanos02.jpgI'm glad I'm not a Freudian.
First of all we should gauge strength of materials by feats and power of attacks by feats.
There is no good evidence that Destroyer armor can withstand the strength of WBH if we go by feats for both. The armor has no feats of tanking attacks above the forces WBH exerted.
There is good evidence that WBH can withstand (at least heal fast from) attacks from Destroyer is we go by feats for both (even one's where Destroyer split Mjolnir). Mjolnir has no feats of durability that shows it is more than a million or even a thousand times more durable than Savage Hulk and his peers.
Originally posted by h1a8
First of all we should gauge strength of materials by feats and power of attacks by feats.There is no good evidence that Destroyer armor can withstand the strength of WBH if we go by feats for both. The armor has no feats of tanking attacks above the forces WBH exerted.
There is good evidence that WBH can withstand (at least heal fast from) attacks from Destroyer is we go by feats for both (even one's where Destroyer split Mjolnir). Mjolnir has no feats of durability that shows it is more than a million or even a thousand times more durable than Savage Hulk and his peers.
Well then by all means, Go ahead an prove that the Hulk at that level could damage the material that the Destroyer is composed of. We know that it is not impossible to damage it but can the Hulk match or exceed the power that damaged it?
Originally posted by Stoic
Well then by all means, Go ahead an prove that the Hulk at that level could damage the material that the Destroyer is composed of. We know that it is not impossible to damage it but can the Hulk match or exceed the power that damaged it?
The proof requires some axioms first
A1: Durability of a material is not greater than against the attacks it went against on panel, unless the character comments on how it felt (like Juggs saying it almost tickled).
A2: The strength or power of an attack is not greater than what it was shown to be on panel.
These axioms are to prevent speculation and fanboy argumentation (Odin wins because he's a freaking skyfather).
Here are some relevant questions.
What was Destroyer's greatest feat of durability?
In that feat concerning the attack on the Destroyer, what is the greatest feat that attack achieved on panel elsewhere in comics? We need to know both.
What was WBH's greatest feat of durability?
What was WBH's greatest feat of strength and power?
Does those two feats prove that WBH can damage Destroyer while withstanding the attacks of Destroyer?
The answer: Hell yes!
Proof: WBH's durability is more than a million of times that of the force that can disintegrate Savage Hulk. This proves he can withstand the Destroyer's attacks well.
WBH's strength is greater than what Destroyer has endured on panel. Thus he can damage it well.
Originally posted by Damborgson
HF's can only take so much. Even the best like Wolverine's and Hulk's. The HF would be the reason the fight would drag out pretty much, but I don't see it at all unlikely to believe,http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Fights/ThorvsThanos02.jpg
^ the antiforce was plenty powerful. Thanosi may not have been Thanos, but they were as close they get basically. The destroyer no sold it. While possessed by a mortal. The destroyer also stood up to Odinforced empowered Zelia's creation which was a combination of the entire Dark god army iirc. The fact that Loki substantially powers the armor more is bordering on ridiculous.
That is assuming Hulk will damage it though. The Hulk's nature in and of itself is what guarantees that he will eventually break it. But the durability it posses ensures it wouldn't be any time soon, and most certainly not before Loki used the destroyers' power against Hulk.
That would be the Balder Destroyer though. Who at the time was also possessed by his mortal form. That would have still been more of a testament to OF Thor's durability than it would a low showing for the armor.
I'd bet money on him being substantially slowed by attacks that are considerably > To the ones that Barbequed Classic Thor. I'd bet also that the beams capable of splitting Mjolnir would be superior to what the Hulk has faced. In the end it would come down to me to whether Loki finishes him (which would be within his capability) or plays with him, and finds himself getting overwhelmed. Overall, the destroyer should take it. And that the Hulk is even causing doubt of the outcome is something I'd never have thought of back in the day.
This isnt WWHs Hf we are talking about, this the Hf of WBH, a character that was shown to be far far above (exponentially) even WWH. Hulks Hf like his durability is proportional to his anger/strength level and thus WBH Hf as well as durability was far far above even WWHs. The potency of his hf/durability induced damage soak was then demonstrated in his tanking unscathed being at the centre of a collision whose residual shockwave, virtually disintergrated (which takes far far far more force than knocking out that same person would) peers of Savage Hulk in the form of Wendigo and Bi Beast, a highly amped fing fang foom, Armcheddon (superior to both Wendigo and bi beast), and the entirety of the race mindless ones who were in conjunction so powerful that Umar (a legit skyfather leveler) couldnt survive let alone put them all down (which makes this feat even more insane). Thats besides mentioning that it took out the dark dimension (which to counter claims of weak matter, also included the realm of the mindless ones where matter is actually denser than on earth and which is also in totality larger than earth as well). WBH was at the epicentre of that collision which means that he experienced several orders of magnitude more force than in the shockwave that did the aforementioned damage...unscathed. His hf getting maxed out in this match highly highly unlikely
The antiforce is no doubt powerful but taking out a Thanosi does not put it at WBH level of output. Thanosis were generally lacking in several areas compared to the real Thanos which is what made Thanos give up on them (see their fights against Kazar and Prof Hulk and Xman). The destroyer standing up to that Dark God creation attack was really impressive ill give you that but again here we have him going up against a prolonged assault not just one attack. I definitely see it getting damaged in the duration of this match.
Regarding the balder destroyer, while less powerful ive seen nothing to suggest that it is leagues below a Loki empowered destroyer. And while Odinforce Thor tanking its beam is not a low feat (neither was i suggesting it was), in terms of physicality, WBH>>Odinforce Thor and featwise it can even be really argued.
WBH is not even in the same ballpark as classic Thor in terms of physicality. When you add in his HF (which classic Thor does not posess) they should quite frankly not even be mentioned in the same sentence in that regard. And so while barbecuing classic Thor is once again impressive, it does not follow that the beam (even from Loki empowered destroyer) would have even close to the same effect. Beams that can split mjolnir in half are categorically NOT above anything WBH has faced...not by a long shot (i have no doubt that if mjolnir was at the epicentre of that collision it would have been broken to pieces). The destroyer isnt putting WBHulk down quickly and the longer the fight goes the better it is for WBHulk. Its best bet is to go esoteric if it can and attempt to bypass the physical route. If this was typical Hulk then the destroyer would take it pretty easy but this isnt typical Hulk, this Paks WBH who he feat whored the hell out of. The divergence in power is ridiculous.
Originally posted by Naija boy
[B]WBH was at the epicentre of that collision which means that he experienced several orders of magnitude more force than in the shockwave that did the aforementioned damage...unscathed. His hf getting maxed out in this match highly highly unlikely
[/B]
Originally posted by Naija boy
This isnt WWHs Hf we are talking about, this the Hf of WBH, a character that was shown to be far far above (exponentially) even WWH. Hulks Hf like his durability is proportional to his anger/strength level and thus WBH Hf as well as durability was far far above even WWHs. The potency of his hf/durability induced damage soak was then demonstrated in his tanking unscathed being at the centre of a collision whose residual shockwave, virtually disintergrated (which takes far far far more force than knocking out that same person would) peers of Savage Hulk in the form of Wendigo and Bi Beast, a highly amped fing fang foom, Armcheddon (superior to both Wendigo and bi beast), and the entirety of the race mindless ones who were in conjunction so powerful that Umar (a legit skyfather leveler) couldnt survive let alone put them all down (which makes this feat even more insane). Thats besides mentioning that it took out the dark dimension (which to counter claims of weak matter, also included the realm of the mindless ones where matter is actually denser than on earth and which is also in totality larger than earth as well). [B]WBH was at the epicentre of that collision which means that he experienced several orders of magnitude more force than in the shockwave that did the aforementioned damage...unscathed. His hf getting maxed out in this match highly highly unlikelyThe antiforce is no doubt powerful but taking out a Thanosi does not put it at WBH level of output. Thanosis were generally lacking in several areas compared to the real Thanos which is what made Thanos give up on them (see their fights against Kazar and Prof Hulk and Xman). The destroyer standing up to that Dark God creation attack was really impressive ill give you that but again here we have him going up against a prolonged assault not just one attack. I definitely see it getting damaged in the duration of this match.
Regarding the balder destroyer, while less powerful ive seen nothing to suggest that it is leagues below a Loki empowered destroyer. And while Odinforce Thor tanking its beam is not a low feat (neither was i suggesting it was), in terms of physicality, WBH>>Odinforce Thor and featwise it can even be really argued.
WBH is not even in the same ballpark as classic Thor in terms of physicality. When you add in his HF (which classic Thor does not posess) they should quite frankly not even be mentioned in the same sentence in that regard. And so while barbecuing classic Thor is once again impressive, it does not follow that the beam (even from Loki empowered destroyer) would have even close to the same effect. Beams that can split mjolnir in half are categorically NOT above anything WBH has faced...not by a long shot (i have no doubt that if mjolnir was at the epicentre of that collision it would have been broken to pieces). The destroyer isnt putting WBHulk down quickly and the longer the fight goes the better it is for WBHulk. Its best bet is to go esoteric if it can and attempt to bypass the physical route. If this was typical Hulk then the destroyer would take it pretty easy but this isnt typical Hulk, this Paks WBH who he feat whored the hell out of. The divergence in power is ridiculous. [/B]
awesome reply!
Originally posted by celeyhyga17he said arm'cheddon will suffer the effects of hulk fighting as his wish backfired
hmm.. Was he really unscathed? After Armcheddon tells Tyrannus "I wished for him to suffer as I suffer"..Tyrannus answers with, "You'll suffer all that he does... Fighting, burning, and reforming... Trapped for an eternity in a never-ending battle..." That's all due to the wishing well.
Originally posted by Naija boy
This isnt WWHs Hf we are talking about, this the Hf of WBH, a character that was shown to be far far above (exponentially) even WWH. Hulks Hf like his durability is proportional to his anger/strength level and thus WBH Hf as well as durability was far far above even WWHs. The potency of his hf/durability induced damage soak was then demonstrated in his tanking unscathed being at the centre of a collision whose residual shockwave, virtually disintergrated (which takes far far far more force than knocking out that same person would) peers of Savage Hulk in the form of Wendigo and Bi Beast, a highly amped fing fang foom, Armcheddon (superior to both Wendigo and bi beast), and the entirety of the race mindless ones who were in conjunction so powerful that Umar (a legit skyfather leveler) couldnt survive let alone put them all down (which makes this feat even more insane). Thats besides mentioning that it took out the dark dimension (which to counter claims of weak matter, also included the realm of the mindless ones where matter is actually denser than on earth and which is also in totality larger than earth as well). [B]WBH was at the epicentre of that collision which means that he experienced several orders of magnitude more force than in the shockwave that did the aforementioned damage...unscathed. His hf getting maxed out in this match highly highly unlikelyThe antiforce is no doubt powerful but taking out a Thanosi does not put it at WBH level of output. Thanosis were generally lacking in several areas compared to the real Thanos which is what made Thanos give up on them (see their fights against Kazar and Prof Hulk and Xman). The destroyer standing up to that Dark God creation attack was really impressive ill give you that but again here we have him going up against a prolonged assault not just one attack. I definitely see it getting damaged in the duration of this match.
Regarding the balder destroyer, while less powerful ive seen nothing to suggest that it is leagues below a Loki empowered destroyer. And while Odinforce Thor tanking its beam is not a low feat (neither was i suggesting it was), in terms of physicality, WBH>>Odinforce Thor and featwise it can even be really argued.
WBH is not even in the same ballpark as classic Thor in terms of physicality. When you add in his HF (which classic Thor does not posess) they should quite frankly not even be mentioned in the same sentence in that regard. And so while barbecuing classic Thor is once again impressive, it does not follow that the beam (even from Loki empowered destroyer) would have even close to the same effect. Beams that can split mjolnir in half are categorically NOT above anything WBH has faced...not by a long shot (i have no doubt that if mjolnir was at the epicentre of that collision it would have been broken to pieces). The destroyer isnt putting WBHulk down quickly and the longer the fight goes the better it is for WBHulk. Its best bet is to go esoteric if it can and attempt to bypass the physical route. If this was typical Hulk then the destroyer would take it pretty easy but this isnt typical Hulk, this Paks WBH who he feat whored the hell out of. The divergence in power is ridiculous. [/B]
Well duh, the thread is about WBH. But that doesn't take away from what I said. I have no doubt on the intensity of the power that WBH possessed. I've reviewed the comics many times. Here are some disagreements I have though:
Mindless ones are generally considered fodder. There is no getting around the fact that they are broken from everything ranging to WBH to fire hydrants hitting them. Their one "feat" that people like to base their durability on a skrull talking about how they resisted a neutron star and were able to mine on them or something similar. Here is everything that is wrong with that: 1. Nothing stands on a neutron star. They spin 300 times per second approximately. 2. Nothing resists the gravity of a neutron star. Even if they were somehow magically placed on it the force of impact would be enough to level worlds. Seeing as how an object the size of a marshmellow dropped from approximately 6 feet would carry the power of and produce a blast the size of a nuclear explosion when the neutron star is hit. Everything that could make that some sort of feat is flawed, and I doubt the writer even knew what a neutron star is. They typically don't examine things as closely as we do on forums and probably thought it sounded cool. So breaking mindless ones even while it was a shockwave that did it isn't something to really get all pepped up about in my opinion. And that Umar somehow couldn't do it, I'd chalk up to PIS. She is a legit skyfather afterall. WBH in all his glory is still trans at best.
also the mindless ones didn't get any favors from the dark dimension: http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/Marvel%20Comics/mind/DrStrangeSorcerersupre50-11.jpg
Another issue: No, the whole dimension did not get destroyed. Thats positively laughable. Umar said "hello destroyers of my dimension" and people just ook off running. It'd have been figurative more than anything else. There was litterally nothing besides that comment that would suggest that the whole dimension went splat. Which is why I'm against the idea that WBH died at any point during that ordeal. We never saw him die or reform at any point, and comments that suggest it are not enough. That said, it goes the same for the other part. He broke a planet, killed the mindless ones, bi-beast, wendigo, armageddon, etc. But that was the extent. There is absolutely no reason to try and make it better than it was. To try that hurts the feat more than it helps and it becomes reaching. If the Hulk were destroying dimensions with the impact of power, of course I'd agree he mangles the destroyer. But he did not. So we have to work with what was given.
Now, The destroyer would be hitting him harder than anyone did in HOTM. Wendigo is a non factor. Fists that can groove Mjolnir are not. Mjolnir has resisted stuff much, much, much more powerful than what the Hulk did. It's destroyed portals that dwarf stars (which caused an explosion that in turn dwarfed the portal) and emerged unscathed. As well as blocked energy from sky fathers without damage. It's durability is without a doubt beyond the measure of getting hurt by the Hulk's impact.
I think it's reasonable to infer that throughout the Hulks' history, despite the power level, there has always been something that can tax his hf enough to where it cannot hold up. The destroyer has the power do that in my opinion. Especially when powered by Loki, who knows how to use the destroyer much better than typical mortals and gives it his own powers on top of that. After a certain point it's know that the destroyer gains power due to the host that inhabits it. Which is why the Balder destroyer was not as impressive as the Loki Destroyer or Thor destroyer were or other mortalk fair even lower and are to weak to stay in the destroyer even f the armor is completely unscathed. Thor has battered the destroyer and knocked a piddly mortal soul out of it before. Even if the armor didn't have a scratch on it. That is not the case with characters like Loki though/ (and yes I know you weren't lowballing or anything, It's just something I felt like putting in the last post)
Thor's durability is very much in that ball park. Hulk has better damage soak no doubt, (it's not comparable) but what classic Thor has resisted is nothing short of incredible without a prominent healing factor. Current showings aside, a few months of low showings do not strip away decades that have made Thor the top hero in Marvel. THAT SAID I agree that the destroyers beam would not have the same effect on WBH that it did on Thor. I do stick by though that the Hulk would be fazed. Seeing as how it was only a flash of the visor opening that Killed Thor, and not an extended attack. There was a flash of light and when the avengers turned to see, Thor was dead. Loki has the option to keep that visor open. As well as imply attacks that would slice through Mjolnir like butter, and therefore the Hulk as well. Mjolnir could have been at the epicenter of that attack in HOTM and emerged unscathed. Of that I have no doubt from what Mjolnir has taken in the past.
It doesn't matter if it's more than one attack though really. The attack that the combined might of the dark gods unleashed is a ridiculous amount of power. It was endangering Odins life (weakened Odin, but still) without a direct hit. That is true durability. The destroyer walked away intact from that fight as well. And i see it frankly as being above what the Hulk could do. Sure, Hulk can break the destroyer. But honestly, with his power set eventually anything will break. Loki isn't stupid though. He know when to end things before they are beyond his control, and at the beginning of the fight, I have no doubt things very much would be in his control. He also doesn't particularly like extended fights unless they cause pain to Thor. He'd be out to kill from the start pretty much.
Like I said Thanosi are not Thanos. Of this there is no doubt, but their durability (especially that one who was about as close it got to the real deal) is comparable. It wasn't a rejected clone like warrior Thanosi who was incredibly strong but also had a limited mind. It was about as close to success as Thanos got iirc.
Yes I agree Pak whored the hell out of it. I never though of writing posts like these against the Hulk if I was arguing in favor of the destroyer. He was exceptionally thorough in trying to take away any blood savage Hulk had on his hands also. (Amadeus Cho the little bastard)
