The New 52... Will it last?

Originally posted by Galan007
Critically acclaimed by you, maybe.

Nah, DC has better books before the relaunch. Before the relanch a lot of the books I liked were getting poor reviews and becoming stale. Before the relaunch, Swamp Thing didn't really matter, Animal Man didn't really matter, an obscure character like Andrew didn't really matter, etc... Swamp Thing sales and Animal Man are holding solid sales and Animal Man got the #2 position in CBR's top 100 books. I Vampire might not be getting as good of sales, but it has good reviews.

People who are wishing it will go back, stop right now. It's not. Sales are up and that's the ONLY thing that matters to a business.

Originally posted by Golgo13
Nah, DC has better books before the relaunch.

One day, Galan. One day.

sneer

I enjoy the restart so far, but it bugs me too much that it's too different. I mean for years we had the original with the characters having their lives for example Superman. I enjoy it that he is all new now, but it's too new. DC wasn't remade like this ever, not even in the original Crisis. I hope it gets interesting, but I feel it's going to be set back to the original after some time which is a shame.

Originally posted by Galan007
I agree. 👆

Originally posted by Rewmac
I enjoy the restart so far, but it bugs me too much that it's too different. I mean for years we had the original with the characters having their lives for example Superman. I enjoy it that he is all new now, but it's too new. DC wasn't remade like this ever, not even in the original Crisis. I hope it gets interesting, but I feel it's going to be set back to the original after some time which is a shame.

That I can agree with, but they were chaotic due to the events since 2006.

Originally posted by Galan007
I miss the characters themselves, personally. Booster Gold, Swamp Thing, Firestorm, Alan Scott, Blue Beetle, etc. These all used to be some of my favs... Now they've been entirely ruined by horrible ideas/stories, imo.

^ this. Add most of Wildstorm to my list. I suppose Ellis spoiled me with early Wildstorm, but the tone of the characters and stories is nowhere near the same. I keep poking my head back into DC books to see what's up, and coming away disappointed. Like, I don't give a **** if Animal Man is brilliant, or I, Dracula produces instant boners or whatever. The titles I followed are, largely, turned to crap. I still don't want to think about what's being done with the JSA, for example. I don't stay away on principle if I enjoy the books again (he says, looking at anyone still boycotting OMD), but I don't enjoy them.

Though I'm somewhat mad at you for getting my hopes up with this thread. Without really knowing the story behind it, I can't imagine them going back this quickly after committing so fully to this. Especially if the reports of increased sales continue to be true.

I think a middle-ground needs to be found. Some reboots have worked, while some have been straight up shite. If they could marry the two, I could see it being good.

In general, I think the reboot was a good thing, even if when I first heard about it I thought it was flat-out retarded. DC just needs to rein in a couple of it's more stupid ideas.

And to fire Robinson.

Both the pre and post Flashpoint DCU have the strengths and weaknesses.

The sad part is that the DCnU had major potential, and it either turned out to be shitty from the start (Firestorm, Earth 2, Legion of Super-Heroes etc.) or are about to get shitty (Grant Morrison leaving the Superman line, cancelling the likes of Captain Atom which eventough I don't love as much as Galan does, is above the line's average). At least with the line beforehand, you know you were neck-deep in shittiness, but it's annoying to have your hopes up and then have them crushed, as it is now.

On the whole, though, I'd say:

Batman line is weaker than the Batman R.I.P/Batman & Robin era, but stronger than the Batman INC. one (mostly due to the ridiculous delays which killed all momentum).
The Superman line is much better, but only because Grant Morrison is on it, for the time being.
Wonder Woman is much better.
Green Lantern is basically the same, with a major event coming soon.
Flash is a bit weaker, but that's also due to the writer not having as much 'pull' as Johns did, who connected his run to the Universe-altering Flashpoint by having Professor Zoom, which was intriguing.
Aquaman is much better, obviously.
Justice League is much better (including the auxiliary titles)
Teen Titans are worse.
JSA are much worse than in the Geoff Johns era, but, well, after Johns left they were shitty, too.

Then we have Animal Man, Swamp Thing, Stormwatch, Captain Atom and more, which are welcomed new additions in the quality area.

Other characters though, like Firestorm, are just being butchered.

Overall, I'd say the new DCU is in better shape, definitely.

Originally posted by Digi
^ this. Add most of Wildstorm to my list. I suppose Ellis spoiled me with early Wildstorm, but the tone of the characters and stories is nowhere near the same. I keep poking my head back into DC books to see what's up, and coming away disappointed. Like, I don't give a **** if Animal Man is brilliant, or I, Dracula produces instant boners or whatever. The titles I followed are, largely, turned to crap. I still don't want to think about what's being done with the JSA, for example. I don't stay away on principle if I enjoy the books again (he says, looking at anyone still boycotting OMD), but I don't enjoy them.

Though I'm somewhat mad at you for getting my hopes up with this thread. Without really knowing the story behind it, I can't imagine them going back this quickly after committing so fully to this. Especially if the reports of increased sales continue to be true.

I've heard the Bat-books are good, but I don't give a phuck about Batman(and co.) so that doesn't interest me. New Guardians, Aquaman, Wonder Woman, and Demon Knights are also pretty good on average, but I could go without reading them and be just fine.

Dunno, I went into this with an open mind, but have been left wanting more-- but like you said, as long as sales are up, they won't be reverting back.

Originally posted by Philosophía
Justice League is much better (including the auxiliary titles)

Are they going back? Nah, not with these sales reports:

The comics shop market is on pace for at least a $470 million year, and at $308 million currently, the industry is only $105 million away from beating last year’s $413 million end-of-year total, and is expected to surpass it in early November.

Suck it! 😛

Originally posted by Philosophía
Both the pre and post Flashpoint DCU have the strengths and weaknesses.

The sad part is that the DCnU had major potential, and it either turned out to be shitty from the start (Firestorm, Earth 2, Legion of Super-Heroes etc.) or are about to get shitty (Grant Morrison leaving the Superman line, cancelling the likes of Captain Atom which eventough I don't love as much as Galan does, is above the line's average). At least with the line beforehand, you know you were neck-deep in shittiness, but it's annoying to have your hopes up and then have them crushed, as it is now.

On the whole, though, I'd say:

Batman line is weaker than the Batman R.I.P/Batman & Robin era, but stronger than the Batman INC. one (mostly due to the ridiculous delays which killed all momentum).
The Superman line is much better, but only because Grant Morrison is on it, for the time being.
Wonder Woman is much better.
Green Lantern is basically the same, with a major event coming soon.
Flash is a bit weaker, but that's also due to the writer not having as much 'pull' as Johns did, who connected his run to the Universe-altering Flashpoint by having Professor Zoom, which was intriguing.
Aquaman is much better, obviously.
Justice League is much better (including the auxiliary titles)
Teen Titans are worse.
JSA are much worse than in the Geoff Johns era, but, well, after Johns left they were shitty, too.

Then we have Animal Man, Swamp Thing, Stormwatch, Captain Atom and more, which are welcomed new additions in the quality area.

Other characters though, like Firestorm, are just being butchered.

Overall, I'd say the new DCU is in better shape, definitely.

Originally posted by Philosophía
JSA are much worse than in the Geoff Johns era, but, well, after Johns left they were shitty, too.

JSA was Johns' best work, so it's a tough act to follow. But the next guy was NOT comparable to what's going on right now. Jay, if he can still be called the same character, is a lazy teenager who's into parkour.

😐

I'll go ahead and agree to your strengths/weaknesses overall point, but my personal interests took a gigantic hit.

Originally posted by Golgo13
Are they going back? Nah, not with these sales reports:

Suck it! 😛

Be fair. That's total comic sales, not DC alone. Given the popularity of the movies (Batman, Avengers, etc.), I'd expect some small growth. Hitting last year's mark in early November translates to maybe a 12-17% hike in overall sales. Good, but not earth shattering.

I still like the Batman line. Batman Inc, Batman, BOP, Red Hood, and Talon looks promising.

Originally posted by Digi
JSA was Johns' best work, so it's a tough act to follow. But the next guy was NOT comparable to what's going on right now. Jay, if he can still be called the same character, is a lazy teenager who's into parkour.

😐

I'll go ahead and agree to your strengths/weaknesses overall point, but my personal interests took a gigantic hit.

Be fair. That's total comic sales, not DC alone. Given the popularity of the movies (Batman, Avengers, etc.), I'd expect some small growth. Hitting last year's mark in early November translates to maybe a 12-17% hike in overall sales. Good, but not earth shattering.

Never said it was all DC. However it does point out that sales are up through the comic medium. Was up before the movies hit the theaters.

One thing I'm hoping for: Bringing the old DCU back and making it a 616/Ultimates situation.

Don't *get rid* of either of them.

Originally posted by Golgo13
Never said it was all DC.

Then how is it relevant to the "are DC sales up?" discussion?

huh?

Originally posted by Q99
One thing I'm hoping for: Bringing the old DCU back and making it a 616/Ultimates situation.

Don't *get rid* of either of them.

Could happen and I wouldn't be mad, either. One thing I do miss is regular Superman. I also miss some of WS characters as well. Majestic, for instance. However, how would you split the books? Between Earth 2, DCnU, and regular DCU?

BTW, as DC keeps on pumping out new waves and mini series (#1 issues), it's pretty clear they won't change anytime soon.

Originally posted by Golgo13
Could happen and I wouldn't be mad, either. One thing I do miss is regular Superman. I also miss some of WS characters as well. Majestic, for instance. However, how would you split the books? Between Earth 2, DCnU, and regular DCU?

Make Earth 2 blow up

Regular Superman has been largey shit since 2008. I miss him when he was great, but he hasn't been great since Johns and Busiek were regular writers on the books.

I'll keep DCNU Superman for now, given the choice.

TBH I think that the reboot has been largely a success. The only issues I really have with characters are the lack of some that I like, a shitty Green Arrow, and the JSA. Otherwise I'm generally happy.