The New 52... Will it last?

Originally posted by -Pr-
Regular Superman has been largely shit since 2008. I miss him when he was great, but he hasn't been great since Johns and Busiek were regular writers on the books.

Superman may not have been *as* good the last few years(though it's arguable, imo), but I definitely wouldn't say he was shit.

Originally posted by Galan007
Really? Like most series' Action had it's weak points, but I thought it was still pretty good as a whole, post-'08. I also thought the post-'08 issues of Superman(v3) were well done... And Superman/Batman was one of my favorite series' in the pre-Flashpoint era, from start to finish. I also quite enjoyed the team-books Supes was in (JLA, for instance.) /shrug

Superman may not have been *as* good the last few years(though it's arguable, imo), but I definitely wouldn't say he was shit.

Once Robinson came on board, Superman was terrible. It started out as barely average, and just descended in to mediocrity.

Him in McDuffie's JLA was bad too, sadly.

At least, imo.

To each his own.

But I actually thought McDuffie's stint on JLA was pretty well done, tbh. Every character (including Firestorm, which was rare) got their just desserts while he was writing the series... And he also reintroduced Milestone Comics back into the mainstream DCU, which was awesome.

Originally posted by Galan007
To each his own.

But I actually thought McDuffie's stint on JLA was pretty well done, tbh. Every character (including Firestorm, which was rare) got their just desserts while he was writing the series... And he also reintroduced Milestone Comics back into the mainstream DCU, which was awesome.

You think Superman getting worf-effected in almost every fight is the same as getting his just-desserts? 😛

^ Yeah, I will say that McDuffie seemed to enjoy using Supes as the initial 'villain-benchmark'. Many times he'd have a baddie show up and own Superman, which swiftly solidified said baddie's uberness. But usually Supes would get back in the game and either own the baddie solo, or assist in owning him/it, swiftly thereafter.

Lot of good stories in his run, though, so it's hard for me to hate on it. 😛

Originally posted by Galan007
^ Yeah, I will say that McDuffie seemed to enjoy using Supes as the initial 'villain-benchmark'. Many times he'd have a baddie show up and own Superman, which swiftly solidified said baddie's uberness. But usually Supes would get back in the game and either own the baddie solo, or assist in owning him/it, swiftly thereafter.

Lot of good stories in his run, though, so it's hard for me to hate on it. 😛

When did Superman own villains by himself?

Bar the moon thing.

After briefly skimming through McDuffie's run again, you're right, most of Superman's victories were shared with the rest of the JLA-- but it's a team-book, so that's to be expected... The moon thing happened in Superman/Batman, iirc.

But on that note, who beat Superman in McDuffie's run that shouldn't have been able to?

Originally posted by Galan007
After briefly skimming through McDuffie's run again, you're right, most of Superman's victories were shared with the rest of the JLA-- but it's a team-book, so that's to be expected... The moon thing happened in Superman/Batman, iirc.

But on that note, who beat Superman in McDuffie's run that shouldn't have been able to?

Wonder Woman fans, McDuffie's pettiness about speed.

In JLA? Not following...

Originally posted by Galan007
In JLA? Not following...

McDuffie was an open Wonder Woman fan, and the "Usain Bolt vs Bruce Lee" thing was purely done to piss off some people on the forum and show them he was right.

😂

u so picky. 😛

Originally posted by Galan007
😂

u so picky. 😛

😛

Sorry, the shadow moon thing was JLA, as it was during the arc with the Milestone folks.

Also, Kimiyo Hoshi's characterisation, and Flash's "we're gonna **** you" line too.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Sorry, the shadow moon thing was JLA, as it was during the arc with the Milestone folks.

The Dark Moon had 81 billion tons worth of mass. It was traveling 7,614,000km/hr. Supes flew into it moving just short of light speed, and was only momentarily KO'd, but otherwise none the worse for wear (he wasn't even scratched, and John's scans confirmed he was a-okay immediately afterward.) Had the Moon not have been moving at incredible speeds when Supes flew into it, I would have agreed that it was a poor showing-- but all things considered, it wasn't that bad, imo.

For me that was the one -almost- highlight of the McDuffie run Superman wise.

Aside from what I mentioned above, the scene also showed us that Superman can, and has, traveled FTL-- it showed us that he can easily do so, in fact.

Don't think it was a bad showing, all things considered... But the hate is strong with you. 😛

Originally posted by Galan007
Aside from what I mentioned above, the scene also showed us that Superman can, and has, traveled FTL-- it showed us that he can easily do so, in fact.

Don't think it was a bad showing, all things considered... But the hate is strong with you. 😛

I can't help hating bad writing, what can I say...

I just checked out all of the instances where Supes was 'owned' during McDuffie's stint on JLA, and I honestly can't find anything illogical/stupid about any of them... Amazo, Starbreaker, Lex /w/ Kryptonite, etc.-- these are all characters who, given the chance, should be able to get the better of Supes. Don't really see the problem with it, tbh, but like I said: to each his own. If you think it was "bad", then that is your opinion and you are welcome to it.

I'm not a McDuffie fan by any means, but I thought his JLA issues were pretty good as a whole. It's a team book, and if take all of the issues into account, I wouldn't say that Superman was treated any worse than the rest of the Leaguers on average. What I will say is that Superman didn't attain too many high-end feats during McDuffie's run-- while some Leaguers did ('Duff did great things for Firestorm, for instance.).

Galan might be on to something. Just read some of Newsaram's article on the whole Pandora thing.

And it's hard to forget that Pandora affected the creation of the New 52 universe last year. Could this "great power" within the box — combined with her vengeful heart — allow Pandora to undo the New 52 universe and put things back the way they were?

What a waste...

Nobody ever said it was going to go back, but I think they put that option there for when they do it. More than likely it won't be for a long time. Seeing as they have more plans for the DCnU.