Iron Man 3 vs Man of Steel

Originally posted by Femi32
I couldn't have said it better myself, except for the Batman part. I've wanted this for a while and Henry Cavill suggested they do this first. I just don't want them fighting. It's obvious Superman would win. Besides, why would Batman fight Superman? Isn't he too smart for that? If they really want to do the fans justice, they'll make their initial meeting similar to what happened in post-crisis.

The Superman/Batman relationship has almost always been represented as initial hostility that transitioned in to respect and then friendship. I'd like them to do that, just not at the expense of either character.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
I think he will grow, but I also think the "realism" they were referring to before the film, meant the realism of super powered beings duking it out in a city. There would be casualties. And as amazing and powerful as Superman is, it really wouldn't be possible to do everything when the villains are every bit as powerful as him.

As for Batman I doubt he's just going to be a Bat kick to Superman's chest for the win. If there is a fight, it will be a Bat Exoskeleton and Kryptonite and all sorts of other factors involved Imo.

Kind of like how people were worried seeing Iron man battle Thor in the Avengers trailer, and in the end it was an IM amped 400% and still ultimately losing.

Don't agree tbh; they can have realism with him still saving almost everyone, if not every single person.

And while I'd like to agree on the IM/Thor thing, I can't, because this is Batman. Batman looks good against everyone.

Originally posted by -Pr-

Don't agree tbh; they can have realism with him still saving almost everyone, if not every single person.

Given the criticisms I'm sure they will tone down on the collateral damage in future movies and chalk it down to him getting more experienced.

Originally posted by -Pr-
And while I'd like to agree on the IM/Thor thing, I can't, because this is Batman. Batman looks good against everyone.

There has to be Kryptonite involved. No one's going to buy into Batman and Superman trading blows without Kryptonite involved. Even then it obviously won't be anything close to a Superman out for blood.

With that The Dark Knight Returns, Bats uses some weakness on Superman from a near death thing from a nuclear blast.

Originally posted by -Pr-
The Superman/Batman relationship has almost always been represented as initial hostility that transitioned in to respect and then friendship. I'd like them to do that, just not at the expense of either character.

Don't agree tbh; they can have realism with him still saving almost everyone, if not every single person.

And while I'd like to agree on the IM/Thor thing, I can't, because this is Batman. Batman looks good against everyone.

He shouldn't be contributing to it so much himself. Especially without so much as a look of concern.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Given the criticisms I'm sure they will tone down on the collateral damage in future movies and chalk it down to him getting more experienced.

There has to be Kryptonite involved. No one's going to buy into Batman and Superman trading blows without Kryptonite involved. Even then it obviously won't be anything close to a Superman out for blood.

That's what I hope/expect.

I really don't want them to use kryptonite as the huge plot device it has been in the past. Batman shouldn't use Kryptonite on Superman, imo. It should be like their meeting in Justice League.

Originally posted by Newjak
Maybe I'm losing context of the conversation but are you saying in MoS Superman should have been able to avoid all that collateral damage during his and zods fight?

No; in fact I think it served the story just fine.

Originally posted by Accel
He shouldn't be contributing to it so much himself. Especially without so much as a look of concern.

I was going to be sarcastic, but I didn't want to be rude. He showed plenty of concern; evident in the fact that he chose humanity over his own species on several occasions.

Risked his secret to save the school kids, the people at the oil rig. Killed one of his own people to stop him murdering humans. An act that clearly effected him emotionally. He definitely cared for people.

Originally posted by -Pr-
I was going to be sarcastic, but I didn't want to be rude. He showed plenty of concern; evident in the fact that he chose humanity over his own species on several occasions.

He only showed it when Zod was getting ready to kill a family of four... after killing thousands that he didn't seem to give a damn about. But I guess it's more convenient when you can't actually see the people dying in those falling buildings rather than right in front of you.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Risked his secret to save the school kids, the people at the oil rig. Killed one of his own people to stop him murdering humans. An act that clearly effected him emotionally. He definitely cared for people.

The whole problem with the final fight with Zod (one of many anyway) is that it completely goes against what the movie had been building Superman up as. Once he starts throwing Zod through buildings and causing them to fall (undoubtedly killing countless people) for no reason whatsoever, then it destroys all the good will he had built up over the course of the film.

When he AND Zod were both causing skyskrapers to fall, it's never indicated that Superman is concerned or even trying to minimize the damage. It definitely doesn't help that there's no mention of the devastation at all afterwards.

Instead all he can think about is making out with Lois in the middle of all that rubble.

Originally posted by Accel
He only showed it when Zod was getting ready to kill a family of four... after killing thousands that he didn't seem to give a damn about. But I guess it's more convenient when you can't actually see the people dying in those falling buildings rather than right in front of you.

Being snarky about it isn't helping.

He saved plenty of people before the fight. He saved plenty of people by stopping the world engine. He saved plenty of people when he stopped Zod.

We're supposed to believe that a guy that had just started using his superspeed was supposed to be able to zoom around the battlefield, saving people while fighting Zod, a guy that was an actual match for him, or that he'd even have enough expertise in the use of his powers to be able to accomplish such a thing?

You're not getting me.

I'm saying that the Superman who fought Zod was like a completely person then the one that the film had been building up to that point. He saved the planet, sure, but if there's no personal connection there (i.e. Superman showing concern for the people around him) then why am I supposed to care? Sure he saved a handful of people before, but again after I witnessed him being at least partially responsible for the deaths of thousands in Metropolis, it takes away from those other moments.

I can forgive Superman when he can't save every body in the fight. But he doesn't even try to cause less damage in Metropolis. And when he goes out of his way to throw Zod through a building- where I know people were living or working in- then that's all on him. That's his fault.

It just makes his "Oh, snap!" moment more nonsensical because it just leaves you wondering why THAT particular moment pushed him over the edge and why he didn't just do it earlier.

Originally posted by Accel
You're not getting me.

I'm saying that the Superman who fought Zod was like a completely person then the one that the film had been building up to that point. He saved the planet, sure, but if there's no personal connection there (i.e. Superman showing concern for the people around him) then why am I supposed to care? Sure he saved a handful of people before, but again after I witnessed him being at least partially responsible for the deaths of thousands in Metropolis, it takes away from those other moments.

I can forgive Superman when he can't save every body in the fight. But he doesn't even try to cause less damage in Metropolis. And when he goes out of his way to throw Zod through a building- where I know people were living or working in- then that's all on him. That's his fault.

It just makes his "Oh, snap!" moment more nonsensical because it just leaves you wondering why THAT particular moment pushed him over the edge and why he didn't just do it earlier.

I am getting what you're saying; I just really, really disagree.

BTW, Superman never throws or punches Zod through a building. It's Zod that does that to Superman and there isn't much Clark can do about that.

The real tragedy is, that fight COULD have been so much better.

We could have seen Superman learn to be a better hero, as it went on. Maybe use his better experience with his powers to his advantage over Zod. There was plenty of opportunity for clever ways of working Superman into defeating Zod rather than just having a mindless punch-out.

Instead we just a jumbled mess at the end. God, I hated that fight so much.

I thought the fight was fine, good even, but that's me.

Originally posted by ares834
BTW, Superman never throws or punches Zod through a building. It's Zod that does that to Superman and there isn't much Clark can do about that.

There are those points where Superman and Zod collide on the side of a building, Superman rakes Zod across another building, or Zod throws a truck that causes a building to blow up that Superman could esaily have avoided, but just... didn't.

Superman bettering himself will be in the next movie. I'm in no hurry. MOS was fine in my book.

Originally posted by ares834
BTW, Superman never throws or punches Zod through a building. It's Zod that does that to Superman and there isn't much Clark can do about that.

Exactly. And most of the casualties came from the engine.

And funny enough, not a single mention of those casualties afterwards. All that destruction and no one cared.

Originally posted by Accel
There are those points where Superman and Zod collide on the side of a building, Superman rakes Zod across another building, or Zod throws a truck that causes a building to blow up that Superman could esaily have avoided, but just... didn't.

Superman raking Zod across the building is pretty inconsequential, it's not going to do anything. The truck scene, I will admit, was a little stupid. Seriously, people ***** about Superman destroying Metropolis but the damage he personally did was no more than than Hulk, Iron Man, or Thor did in the Avengers.

Originally posted by Accel
The real tragedy is, that fight COULD have been so much better.

Instead we just a jumbled mess at the end. God, I hated that fight so much.

I thought the fight was pretty Epic. It's taken superhero action to a new level Imo.

Originally posted by Accel
And funny enough, not a single mention of those casualties afterwards. All that destruction and no one cared.

Who says no one cared? The film finished shortly after that. Your being overly critical Imho.