Originally posted by TheGodKiller
How exactly was he wrong ? The Avengers came barraging on his door , demanding that he hand over the girl to them , as if they had better knowledge of or experience with the PF . Hope was the mutants' messiah at that time . She was needed in Utopia .Also , if you're forgetting , then Tony is the one to blame for this entire mess . If he hadn't gone out of his way and been overzealous with that whole "Phoenixbuster" stuff , this situation wouldn't have escalated to this point .
Edit : The Nazi Germany analogy doesn't fit as well , because in this case its the mutants who are the oppressed(and they always have been in the MU) , and I don't recall Scott orchestrating a genocidal campaign against any minorities .
He was wrong because he was acting like a lunatic cultist who in spite of all his past history with the Phoenix Force decided against all logic and reasoning, that this time the Phoenix Force was coming to usher in a new era of greatness and prosperity for the mutant race. And everyone beside Cyclops and his extraction team was like "Dude... the Phoenix is destroying planets and whipping out entire civilizations on it's way here... maybe we should take some precautions?" and Wolverine was like "Am I the only one who remembers what happened every time the Phoenix has shown up so far?" and Hope was like "I think I should go with Cap..." and Cyclops was like "Heretics! Race traitors! The Phoenix is life!!!!!!!!!! Hope is the messiah, I decided that arbitrarily... but it seems right to me!!! WAAAAAAAAAAAR" and then Cap was like "Thanks for coming with us through your own will, Hope." and then Cyclops was like "We have to get Hope back!" Then bunch of stuff happened, and the Phoenix 5 were created... which immediately lead to them creating a totalitarian regime where every who disagreed with them was imprisoned in limbo by Magic, because they knew better than everyone else and they got crazier and crazier until the event hit the pen ultimate issue.
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
How exactly was he wrong ? The Avengers came barraging on his door , demanding that he hand over the girl to them , as if they had better knowledge of or experience with the PF . Hope was the mutants' messiah at that time . She was needed in Utopia .Also , if you're forgetting , then Tony is the one to blame for this entire mess . If he hadn't gone out of his way and been overzealous with that whole "Phoenixbuster" stuff , this situation wouldn't have escalated to this point .
Edit : The Nazi Germany analogy doesn't fit as well , because in this case its the mutants who are the oppressed(and they always have been in the MU) , and I don't recall Scott orchestrating a genocidal campaign against any minorities .
FU Avengers! I hope Scott stomps CA's head into paste, then incinerates the murdering ****, Wanda.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
I think it's humorous that Hope, Beast and Wolverine are getting so much flack on the net for being "species traitors." It's a barrel of laughs. I suppose if you guys lived in Nazi Germany, you would have been all "Well... I don't agree with Hitler's policies... but I am German. Sieg Heil!" Scott is wrong. He's been wrong since day one, and if that wasn't clear when the event started (it was FYI), its painfully obvious now that he has gone Dark Phoenix and killed Xaivier. Why anyone would think that these characters should forgo common sense and ally themselves with Scott merely because they happen to be mutants is asinine.
This.
Plus the fact that everything was fine until the Avengers showed up with Wanda being the antagonist, persuading Hope to come with her. At the time, Scott wasn't powerful enough to stop her. That was not Hopes fault.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
He was wrong because he was acting like a lunatic cultist who in spite of all his past history with the Phoenix Force decided against all logic and reasoning
Or how about other ancient history, like the PF with Rachel Summers. Not only did she control it just fine, she actually helped saved the world a couple of times too.
So recapping past history, as long as an outside force doesn't drive it or it's host insane, the PF has done NOTHING "evil".
Originally posted by zopzop
Uhm what past history are you talking about? You mean the time outside forces, aka the Hellfire Club, drove the PF inside Jean insane? That history? Wasn't that history repeated here again with Tony interfering with the PF's host selection?Or how about other ancient history, like the PF with Rachel Summers. Not only did she control it just fine, she actually helped saved the world a couple of times too.
So recapping past history, as long as an outside force doesn't drive it or it's host insane, the PF has done NOTHING "evil".
Rachel did alright... aside from the time she decided Beyonder was a threat to all of existence... so she should destroy all of existence in order to destroy the Beyonder first. Every time the Phoenix has shown up the host has gone Dark Phoenix.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
He was wrong because he was acting like a lunatic cultist who in spite of all his past history with the Phoenix Force decided against all logic and reasoning, that this time the Phoenix Force was coming to usher in a new era of greatness and prosperity for the mutant race. And everyone beside Cyclops and his extraction team was like "Dude... the Phoenix is destroying planets and whipping out entire civilizations on it's way here... maybe we should take some precautions?" and Wolverine was like "Am I the only one who remembers what happened every time the Phoenix has shown up so far?" and Hope was like "I think I should go with Cap..." and Cyclops was like "Heretics! Race traitors! The Phoenix is life!!!!!!!!!! Hope is the messiah, I decided that arbitrarily... but it seems right to me!!! WAAAAAAAAAAAR" and then Cap was like "Thanks for coming with us through your own will, Hope." and then Cyclops was like "We have to get Hope back!" Then bunch of stuff happened, and the Phoenix 5 were created... which immediately lead to them creating a totalitarian regime because they knew better than everyone else and they got crazier and crazier until the event hit the pen ultimate issue.
Hope going with Cap , Scott ordering her to be brought back happened AFTER they got the PF . Most of his character assassination(which you're talking about here) happened AFTER they were possessed and ultimately corrupted by the PF.
The same Hope who stood and watched as Thor beat the snot out of one of her "Lights" aka Gabriel ? Those douchebag Avengers wouldn't have bothered to seriously hurt her friends , and she still went ahead with them . Sounds more like the rebellious teen-hormones kicking in trope to me . Also she intended to go with Wanda(the Witch who killed off the entire mutant race and has now become one of the heroes of this sh1tty storyline) , which makes the whole scene even more atrocious/painful from a mutant's POV .
Yeah , they built a supposed totalitarian regime after solving a heck of world issues , and throughout their rule , Scott was the only one who displayed control and reason . All the others were already showing signs of corruption , while Scott finally lost it AFTER Emma's confession of adultery was made .
Originally posted by Sundipped
^
The girl was confused gees 😬
Morals/loyalty/past mutant history/etc. is insignificant to most teenagers.
Someone like Wanda giving words of comfort + the fact that Scott said previously she was free to leave anyway was all this was.
scott loves emma more than he ever did jean. she really set him off when she told him about namor.
not that this arc has been anything but a cluster****, but still.
Originally posted by Sundipped
^
The girl was confused gees 😬
Morals/loyalty/past mutant history/etc. is insignificant to most teenagers.
Someone like Wanda giving words of comfort + the fact that Scott said previously she was free to leave anyway was all this was.
I can understand not having loyalty to "bad adults" who want to control your life , but what about her own friends(one of whom she watched getting beaten the sh1t outta him) ?
As wise and noble Jake said in the Character Ownage :
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
It's sad that death is literally the only way to salvage some of the characters which have been butchered character wise because of this event.And after this atrocity is completed, what's left of the X-Franchise goes to Bendis, which is a fate worse than death.
Hell , even Bendis himself admits about how badly they have phucked up Scott's character :
"What a tremendous hole for me to work on with [Cyclops]' character, because he's got to dig his way out of this," Bendis said. "There will be people who will never, ever forgive him for this, and there will be people who will want to kill him for this, and there will be people who make giant choices based on this thing happening."
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
And in her confusion she gave him a lowblow . Anyways , even if you do consider this the rebellious teen hormones kicking in trope(which I already mentioned) , that doesn't excuse the fact that she made the decision after she had already watched one of the "Lights"(Gabriel) having his guts pushed in by Thor(his only good showing throughout this event 😆 ) .I can understand not having loyalty to "bad adults" who want to control your life , but what about her own friends(one of whom she watched getting beaten the sh1t outta him) ?
Simple explanation:
If Hope would've stayed (which, the way you put it would seem logical), then there would be no big showdown comming up and the mutant race would have been rejuvenated by now. It's all plot induced.
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Hell , even Bendis himself admits about how badly they have phucked up Scott's character :http://www.newsarama.com/comics/bendis-alonso-brevoort-avengers-vs-x-men-death.html
bendis can **** off. the last time he wrote cyclops he ****ed it up. not again thanks.
Originally posted by Sundipped
Simple explanation:
If Hope would've stayed (which, the way you put it would seem logical), then there would be no big showdown comming up and the mutant race would have been rejuvenated by now. It's all plot induced.