What bugs me is Hillary Clinton blaming the movie. Calling it "disgusting and reprehensible". I doubt she's seen it either, just giving a knee-jerk apologetic reaction to appease Muslims (which doesn't work). Many of the rioters may feel it's not just the movie, but the POTUS' cabinet doesn't. I think that's more worrisome.
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
What bugs me is Hillary Clinton blaming the movie. Calling it "disgusting and reprehensible". I doubt she's seen it either, just giving a knee-jerk apologetic reaction to appease Muslims (which doesn't work). Many of the rioters may feel it's not just the movie, but the POTUS' cabinet doesn't. I think that's more worrisome.
To be fair, while retarded and laughable at being so bad at times, the film was clearly made for one reason, to upset Muslims.
But in no way does being trolled excuse someone from breaking, burning and/or killing.
I do like how people are talking about prosecuting the filmmaker for "inciting violence" but no one talks about prosecuting the people holding up signs with the words "BEHEAD ALL THOSE WHO INSULT ISLAM". Cuz that's not inciting violence at all. Everyone oughta know that upsetting violent people is a crime, but criminal violence is just upsetting.
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
I do like how people are talking about prosecuting the filmmaker for "inciting violence" but no one talks about prosecuting the people holding up signs with the words "BEHEAD ALL THOSE WHO INSULT ISLAM". Cuz that's not inciting violence at all. Everyone oughta know that upsetting violent people is a crime, but criminal violence is just upsetting.
it sort of demonstrates why this type of censorship is ridiculous on its face. it is a crime based on the actions of others, and is by definition applied unequally.
if a movie can incite someone to violence, the fault isn't in the movie.
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
I just finished watching that 13 minute movie. If there's something "inflammatory" about it, I'm not seeing it. It's poorly made and poorly acted. But it was satire. Pure and simple satire. I laughed a few times at some of the absurdity that I'm positive was intentionally included.I thought very lowly before of all the people who reacted to this trite with violence and hate--no amount of "incense" in a film deserves such reaction:
But after watching it, and looking again at the protests/riots/killings that have been committed by people whom I very much doubt have even watched it, I can't help but agree with the overt message the film makes: they're savages.
The central issue that many Muslims have with the video is that it depicts Muhammad, their prophet. It is considered to be blasphemous to Islam to portray Muhammad in any form. Most Muslims will turn the blind eye and bear it quietly if he IS depicted.
The video takes it a step further by portraying him as a philanderer and homosexual. It's inflammatory. We don't have anything to really compare it to because we don't crap ourselves with rage when people portray images of Jesus Christ or even God. It's not part of the religion upon which America based its roots and morals, so we don't care nearly as much if Jesus is depicted negatively or for satire.
(Though, then again, there are some Christian extremists who may disagree with me and are every bit as hardcore about how Jesus is portrayed as the Muslims are about Muhammad's image. We just don't show those in the media because we're not at war with them, are we?)
And again, it's the extremists that are responding to this video with that whole 'BEHEAD THOSE WHO INSULT US!' mentality.
And furthermore, the video is only the tip of the iceberg as far as what is causing the riots.
Originally posted by Oliver North
most of the protesters cannot access the internet...
It only takes one guy with a cell phone going 'HEY LOOK AT THIS STUPID VIDEO, THEY INSULTED MUHAMMAD!' and then word of mouth to spread the news.
Some parties made certain that it was readily available and translated into Arabic around 9/11, of course.
My big issue with how some Muslim leaders have responded ("you have freedom of speech, but the Prophet is sacred to us, so don't insult him"😉 is that they seem to see religious beliefs and freedom of expression as separate and unequal, with religious belief trumping freedom of expression when push comes to shove.
In this case there's little sense in defending the video on grounds of freedom of expression because it's not high art and appears to be what you might call trolling, but on principle I can't stomach their apparent philosophy that their beliefs are somehow more sacred than the beliefs of other cultures and societies.
Take the Pakistani rail minister who admitted that blasphemy isn't a crime in most of the Western World but warned that things would get "dangerous" if Westerners didn't toe the line.
Originally posted by dadudemon
I think her point was more like: "Middle Eastern Muslim immigrants protested in Australia."
He knew exactly what I was saying, he merely needed to pontificate with someone he thought was a newbie...
The fact of the matter is that these radicals have made it perfectly clear that their intent is to enforce their religion, on a global scale. And the radicals are prepared to use force and fear to bring this about. ON knows this too. I guess, for whatever reason known only to him, I'm 'it' today.
He'll find a new target tomorrow, no doubt. 😉
Originally posted by Omega Visioni agree. i notice this not only with the leaders but with any muslims i happen to speak to about this issue. i don't know many muslims so this is an admittedly small sample i'm speaking of, but this has invariably been the type of response i've gotten.
My big issue with how some Muslim leaders have responded ("you have freedom of speech, but the Prophet is sacred to us, so don't insult him"😉 is that they seem to see religious beliefs and freedom of expression as separate and unequal, with religious belief trumping freedom of expression when push comes to shove.In this case there's little sense in defending the video on grounds of freedom of expression because it's not high art and appears to be what you might call trolling, but on principle I can't stomach their apparent philosophy that their beliefs are somehow more sacred than the beliefs of other cultures and societies.
Take the Pakistani rail minister who admitted that blasphemy isn't a crime in most of the Western World but warned that things would get "dangerous" if Westerners didn't toe the line.
i think this might be an area where there's just this source of inherent tension between the two cultures, and perhaps one where only one of the two conflicting ideal systems can ultimately win out.
Originally posted by Omega Vision
Take the Pakistani rail minister who admitted that blasphemy isn't a crime in most of the Western World but warned that things would get "dangerous" if Westerners didn't toe the line.
Another problem between these cultures is that most of those Middle Eastern countries where this is an issue are used to the media (ALL media) being approved by the government first.
Just as we don't get what the big deal is with images of Muhammad, they don't seem to realize that anyone can make anything at all and call it media, especially in the social media age.
So while it isn't a crime to us, they think it should be or they hold the government responsible for something some idiot made.
Originally posted by Little Caesar
How dare you rebel like this. Not part of the plan. 😱
I am utterly cast down by your condemnation. 🙁 Don't you know that I am the second cousin, to the third cousin, twice removed from Brutus, and that the Ides of October shall soon be upon us? I hold great sway with Brutus, and indeed the trubune also...
I shall have that bail of yours revoked, and you shall be fed to the Lions.
*twinkles*
The closest analogy I could think of here is if you guys saw a beehive and then one of your friends decided to stir it just to troll people and someone got killed because of it. Of course you blame the bees for stinging the guy to death, but the ******* who stirred the bees deserved his teeth kicked in, too.
/shrug
Not trying to "help" anyone's case. Clearly neither side is blameless. And "freedoms" should only be protected if people don't abuse it. I just think some people sometimes tend to take the extreme side on the freedom of speech debate.
And people have behaved like angry mindless mobs (aka bees) in the past. It's not like there aren't any riots in the first world either. It just takes the right amount of discontent (or anger or abundance of alcohol) and a trigger.
Originally posted by Oliver North
their leaders have been telling them in no uncertain terms that this is either sanctioned by the US government or a CIA creation, FYI.
Which, as I mentioned, is an excuse. Their governments already have huge problems with us, and in general the people don't. So the governments try to find things to get their population riled up. This is one of them.
Originally posted by REXXXX
Which, as I mentioned, is an excuse. Their governments already have huge problems with us, and in general the people don't. So the governments try to find things to get their population riled up. This is one of them.
yes, but that is my point
so while you continue to post things suggesting that Muslims are just too sensitive to offense or that they are too thick to understand how our government works, it is important to point out that that is not why they are protesting at all.
Muslims are not "over-sensitive" to offending their prophet or religion, nor do they lack the ability to understand free speech. It is that they are being lied to by the people they trust and the only media they have access to.
I'd like to say that I find blasphemy to be disgusting, ugly, or distasteful at times. Depends on what it is and the context.
However, I am known to be quite the blasphemer...
I hearty **** you to those that think it's perfectly okay to horribly blaspheme and troll another people's culture and beliefs. Sure, make academic arguments against those beliefs and the culture, but don't be an *******.
However, I enjoy South Park's humor quite a bit so I am just a hypocrite so **** me.
😐
Originally posted by Laurie
He knew exactly what I was saying, he merely needed to pontificate with someone he thought was a newbie...The fact of the matter is that these radicals have made it perfectly clear that their intent is to enforce their religion, on a global scale. And the radicals are prepared to use force and fear to bring this about. ON knows this too. I guess, for whatever reason known only to him, I'm 'it' today.
He'll find a new target tomorrow, no doubt. 😉
I agree, he does that. I'm pretty sure he knew exactly what your point was: he's a very smart person.