Breaking Bad

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Didn't Jesse describe Walt as lucky as well as smart? The character isn't some god that knows all and can do anything. That would be boring. He's in enough fortuitous situations to use his intelligence and knowledge to his advantage. Luck is a big part of his success.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Not against the Nazis for the most part though. His whole scheme of mowing them down with the automated M60 was successful for the most part, and it went more or less as he planned it. Whatever minor hurdles came in the way(his key being appropriated, Jesse being revealed as a prisoner rather than a partner) were all overcome by him improvising, rather than simply being too damn lucky as he usually is in other scenarios like Gus Fring.

Walt's not a master superbeing who can see into the future. If there was no element of chance in his plans, then the show would totally suck.

Any plan will always be subject to variables on execution.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
If you want to go down that road then you might as well start claiming that the Nazis not instantly mowing him down the moment he came to their place is luck. Lydia and Todd agreeing to talk with him for a couple minutes is also luck. That waitress not recognizing Walter White when he was making the 52 bacon is also luck. Nope, Walt destroying the Neo-Nazis was his brain in action for the most part, and pretty much everything was calculated.

Walt was lucky that Jesse was even able to recall Gus' connection to Hector Salamanca. Walt was further lucky that Hector decided to help him in his plan instead of trying to take revenge for Tuco's death.

Walt's victory was a lucky win. Gus was admittedly the smartest man on the show. I have series creator Vince Gillian on my side while you have your own typical fanboyish obstinacy.

True enough, but he wasn't anywhere near the cop that someone like Mike is, and a good number of the instances where his back was against the wall, and he still managed to overcome the odds are attributable to the good fortune of being related to a genius meth kingpin in the making.

Walt is the better man. Walt was smarter in a direct contest of the two. With regards to the Neonazis he was far luckier and was vulnerable. Against Fring he played him and easily so. In two situations he had him where he wanted him. Fring luckily walked away but Walt just had to get him later.

Walt proved without a question he was greater than Fring. Again luck is a part of his powerset. Jesse referenced it. You're dead wrong like Fring.

I think Walt is better than Fring simply because when he was running stuff, he made near $90 million in the course of 3 months. I agree that Gus was more streetsmart, but if Walt had those streetsmarts combined with his booksmarts, he'd be pretty much unstoppable.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Walt has been far luckier on other occasions. Walt used the information he had to lure dumb Fring to his death by the man who had tortured him in the past.

Walt is the better man. Walt was smarter in a direct contest of the two. With regards to the Neonazis he was far luckier and was vulnerable. Against Fring he played him and easily so. In two situations he had him where he wanted him. Fring luckily walked away but Walt just had to get him later.

Walt proved without a question he was greater than Fring. Again luck is a part of his powerset. Jesse referenced it. You're dead wrong like Fring.

Walt's win over the Gus was a lucky victory. Walt's annihilation of the Neonazis was a well-planned, well-executed stratagem, all of which was powered by his classic smarts and grit.

As mentioned so many times before, series creator Vince Gillian is on my side while stubborn, annoying and fanboyish trollery is on your side. 👆

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
The luck part in the end came down to him getting his keys back. If the pat-down guy had just kept them and stayed outside it was all over. That's not something you can plan for ahead of time, and it almost didn't pan out. Both Jack falling for his desperate insults and getting close enough to the keys wasn't anything to do with his genius or skills. It was luck. The set-up was all him, but the opportunity for its execution, all chance.

Walt's not a master superbeing who can see into the future. If there was no element of chance in his plans, then the show would totally suck.

Yeah it is. But it's not the uber godlike super intelligence I've heard him made out to be. There are so many elements of chance that he's been fortuitously privy to that if they had gone wrong even slightly, he'd have died long ago. How close he came to losing, even at that end game, due to simple chance. And how much he got away with due to same.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Yeah it is. But it's not the uber godlike super intelligence I've heard him made out to be. There are so many elements of chance that he's been fortuitously privy to that if they had gone wrong even slightly, he'd have died long ago. How close he came to losing, even at that end game, due to simple chance. And how much he got away with due to same.

None of his plans were flawless, the degrees of success he obtained were due to little twists of luck in his favour, and that's a good thing IMO, someone who gets everything spot on is boring.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
I certainly am not claiming that he had "uber godlike" intelligence, although it was certainly up there at the genius level at the very least. That combined with his resolve to close unfinished business back in Albuquerque, and the classic Heisenberg ruthlessness and the considerable experience he had attained throughout the series in dealing with major threats is what enabled to finish off the Aryans and Lydia. Not luck(which was involved in previous battles in varying levels).

Originally posted by samhain
None of his plans were flawless, the degrees of success he obtained were due to little twists of luck in his favour, and that's a good thing IMO, someone who gets everything spot on is boring.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Yes certainly. But he wasn't just ruthless, clever, and cunning. He was also lucky. He was always lucky. Sheer fortuitous chance saved his ass in the quickest, smallest ways that when, for all his cunning, he would have otherwise failed. Or died. See the 'key' example for reference.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
If you want to go down that road then you might as well start claiming that the Nazis not instantly mowing him down the moment he came to their place is luck. Lydia and Todd agreeing to talk with him for a couple minutes is also luck. That waitress not recognizing Walter White when he was making the 52 bacon is also luck. Nope, Walt destroying the Neo-Nazis was his brain in action for the most part, and pretty much everything was calculated.

Walt's victory was a lucky win. Gus was admittedly the smartest man on the show. I have series creator Vince Gillian on my side while you have your own typical fanboyish obstinacy.

His brain in action? And we can go there: Walt would'nt've of gotten to the Nazi's if it weren't for luck in the first place so what does it matter? Realistically Walt should been killed a while back anyway and in more than a few scenarios. Would you like me to name some?

Look I'm not discrediting his intelligence, imo he was the smartest individual in the show, even smarter than Fring, we saw how he outsmarted him, but there were instances where Vince Gillian clearly, and for obvious reasons, tailored Walt's events in Walt's favor.

Originally posted by Lestov16
I think Walt is better than Fring simply because when he was running stuff, he made near $90 million in the course of 3 months. I agree that Gus was more streetsmart, but if Walt had those streetsmarts combined with his booksmarts, he'd be pretty much unstoppable.

I dunno. ..

Walt to me, had a bit more of a moral conscious than Fring did. He wasn't as cutthroat or sadistic, which is what you need to be, as a kingpin, in that game. You have to be completely 100% moral-less. And Walt wasn't that, unless his hand was forced to the max. I don't think he was even capable of it either, no matter the success.

Murder isn't really in Walt. Like he'd avoid if he had to unlike Fring. where he would do it anytime and it was just fine with him afterwards.

Walt would only and always be just fine as a cook. No more, no less, in my eyes. And he would've been ok. Even Mike, my fav character, said "We had a good thing.."

Originally posted by samhain
None of his plans were flawless, the degrees of success he obtained were due to little twists of luck in his favour, and that's a good thing IMO, someone who gets everything spot on is boring.

Yeah but with the luck he had you'd have to suspend belief a bit. Just sayin'.

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
His brain in action? And we can go there: Walt would'nt've of gotten to the Nazi's if it weren't for luck in the first place so what does it matter? Realistically Walt should been killed a while back anyway and in more than a few scenarios. Would you like me to name some?

Look I'm not discrediting his intelligence, imo he was the smartest individual in the show, even smarter than Fring, we saw how he outsmarted him, but there were instances where Vince Gillian clearly, and for obvious reasons, tailored Walt's events in Walt's favor.

Never really disputed that he got lucky in a number of instances. What I truly disbelieve however is the idea that he was lucky against the Nazis while simply smarter against Fring, when it's the complete opposite based on what we saw in the show.

Both instances were Heisenberg/Walt using his head.

Fring was before he succumbed to ego and passion,
The Aryans were after his ego was shattered and he had time to reflect, and get back to using his loaf again.

He probably intended to take out ALL of the Aryans in one volley and live and escape possibly with the money they stole.
Two things that didn't go according to that plan.

I don't think Walt planned on living.

I doubt he wanted to die in jail.

Well if he had escaped, he might not have died in jail.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Tuco is the only occasion where he was "far luckier" and that is primarily because Heisenberg was still in the infant stages back then, meaning Walt was still a n00b.

Walt's win over the Gus was a lucky victory. Walt's annihilation of the Neonazis was a well-planned, well-executed stratagem, all of which was powered by his classic smarts and grit.

As mentioned so many times before, series creator Vince Gillian is on my side while stubborn, annoying and fanboyish trollery is on your side. 👆

No, that was out thinking Gus. Hardly any lucky at all just manipulating Gus.

Walt was far luckier against the Nazis. Every one else has pointed out all the reasons. You love Gus and are flat out looking ridiculous here.

The show referenced Walt's luck as a part of his powerset. He beat Gus. He is better. Case closed. The show demonstrated it and it what happened. No point in arguing against the facts.