K .. this is my final response since the discussion has gone as far as it can.
Also, replies I find redundant will be responded with:
"Addressed"
Originally posted by Endless MikeBut it's not the source of these energies.
Originally posted by Endless MikeJust trying to get an idea of what you are claiming here.
Everything else is just informative facts.
Originally posted by Endless MikeBut this story doesn't exist in a vacuum. It's a part of the overall Marvel continuity,
which includes characters like LT and TOAA. So when you are analyzing it you
have to consider what role they might have to play if things went differently.
You got a point concerning the LT.
What can I say,
in the original story and the 'return of Jaspers' in Die by the Sword,
he was unstoppable save for the Fury.
Now, imo, if the LT was allowed to stop Jaspers, I'm sure he could,
the LT can come as a representative power of TOAA like he did with Warlock.
My point was, that since Jaspers would simply take over (replacing reality with his)
the LT wouldn't interfere, so no one would stop him.
Originally posted by Endless MikeThat has nothing to do with what I was asking. I was saying if you think 238
Jaspers > Merlyn, but one of Merlyn's devices was able to defeat him, how does
that make sense?
Originally posted by Endless MikeCould have fooled me.
Originally posted by Endless MikeWell the pieces represent characters in different universes.
Originally posted by Endless MikeOh boy. Prepare yourself for a cluster****, is all I'll say.
Originally posted by Endless MikeWell the Manchester Gods conquered it by simply conquering all the places shown on the land there.
They probably conquered the "capitol" sorta-speak of Otherworld,
which is the Starlight Citadel and the Island it hovers over.
Also Mike, Otherworld contains several separate significant Worlds/Realms,
containing Skyfathers, (Celtic gods & others) Demons, (Netherworld) Magical beings, & strange races,
so it's literally impossible for Otherworld to have been converted into a piece of land.
Originally posted by Endless MikeI never said he didn't do it,
I was asking for the specifics on how and how long it took him and such.
It's also difficult because Merlyn was portrayed differently at certain times,
sometimes, although very powerful, he didn't seem "all-powerful" (early Britain titles)
but then in other stories same era, he's doing uber stuff.
But my friend, I've come to the understanding of Comic books,
that's the way it's always going to be for every character of great power
that has to meddle with humanoids, in order to keep the story not only interesting,
but to be able to make a story at all.
Otherwise, it's "god-like X" pops up, waves his/her hand, ... end of story.
That ... doesn't work.
Originally posted by Endless MikeYes but I am not exactly convinced of Otherworld's size.
Could you post some scans showing it is universe sized or bigger?
[img=http://s3d2.turboimagehost.com/t/13408402_OtherW1.jpg]
"Entrance to another Dimension"
When he enters Otherworld, he takes off into the night sky and you see a Cosmos:
[img=http://s3d2.turboimagehost.com/t/13408405_OtherW2.jpg]
--------------------------------------------------
Here Merlyn prepares to consciously merge with Otherworld:
"Beyond the veil of Earthly Time & Space ... into the great Void"
"Become One with the great depths of Space"
--------------------------------------------------
Here Merlyn, after searching across his Eternity,
finds Brian (dead, in Astral form) "swept across the currents of Infinity"
heading for Otherwold's Conceptual pocket-realm of "Death." (Netherworld)
[img=http://s3d2.turboimagehost.com/t/13408419_OtherW6.jpg]
--------------------------------------------------
This is self explanatory:
[img=http://s3d2.turboimagehost.com/t/13408425_OtherW7-.jpg]
"The universe unfolds before me."
[img=http://s3d2.turboimagehost.com/t/13408427_OtherW9.jpg]
"Reverberated through Eternity ... the Universe reels"
--------------------------------------------------
Cool, I hope that wasn't too much, but I wanted to be thorough,
here's something closer to our time:
"The Pan-Dimensional Realm of Otherworld"
--------------------------------------------------
Like I had said ... it's a Universe containing multi-realities. (one of a kind)
So we got ... "Infinity" .. "Eternity" ... "Universe" ... "pocket-realms" ... and artistically illustrated "Space."
Originally posted by Endless MikeYou're missing out on a lot of fun...
Bottom-line, companies have different standards and different absolutes,
this is why it doesn't mix well matching them up. (again, especially in my preferred genre)
Skyfather, herald, meta/heores and what not is ok I guess,
but when it comes to the Cosmics .. or powers that reach out into space-time ...nah.
Originally posted by Endless MikeThat says he was above "gods" which presumably means the likes of Zeus,
Odin, etc. TOAA is often referred to as simply "God" such as in the FF arc when he
appeared as Jack Kirby.
TOAA (writer/artis Avatars) has appeared 5 times on panel,
and has been mentioned several times aside from that.
Originally posted by Endless MikeNip-pick?
Originally posted by Endless MikeSo you're saying there's no proof TOAA could stop him either?
Also, addressed.
Originally posted by Endless MikeWell like I said he would do something that would affect the multiverse at large.
And you're saying that none of the Eternities being threatened by MJJ would ask
the LT to help?
Yes, no, it depends on TOAA, since it's TOAA that's manipulating JJ to do anything.
Although:
Eternity 616 was getting taken over and indeed ended up getting engulfed,
yet ... he made no attempts.
That aside:
Why didn't Eternities ask the LT for help when Wanda was tearing them all to pieces?
Anyway, this is silly.
Mike, in real world logic there's sense. You're using this logic & while it's sensible
it doesn't work here,
cause I'm using comic book logic.
Of course in hindsight can you alway say,
Why didn't this or that happen? ... Why didn't he just? ... Why?
My friend, every story doesn't conform to every other story,
there's always going to be inconsistencies, senseless outcomes,
pointless endeavors to achieve a task, disconnected historical data,
and most notably, inserted nonsense (pis) to end the story.
Our job is to filter out as best we can absurdities,
in order to arrive at a meaningful conclusion, or compromise.
Originally posted by Endless MikeShe didn't destroy it, she just altered it.
Presumably LT was okay with the alterations.Maybe he was, maybe not, I don't know.
And there is none.
Wanda wasn't replacing Eternity/Infinity like Thanos did,
Wanda "tore the Omniverse to pieces"
and it WAS "re-arranged" into un-balanced CHAOS!
[img=http://s3d3.turboimagehost.com/t/13408526_Omni_bash.jpg]
[img=http://s3d2.turboimagehost.com/t/13408519_ChaosW2.jpg]
This doesn't seem like something the LT should allow.
Originally posted by Endless MikeProtege was the only one of those that was able to actually challenge LT IIRC.
But that's neither here nor there, the point was, that yes,
the LT is the representative power of TOAA,
so unless TOAA makes a story where the LT is not up to the task (like 1000 years from now with Protege)
then that's TOAA's prerogative and there's nothing any of us can do about that.
Originally posted by Endless MikeWhy?
If your position is that the Fury was the only one who could beat MJJ within the
context of the story, that doesn't mean anything because Solar doesn't exist within
the context of the MJJ story.
Interesting, when Merlyn's never used the CN,
or even hinted at ever needing to use it.
stoned
Also, I suppose creating from scratch an Infinite Universe
made up of several Realities can be seen as trans-tier.
Already proven above.
Not too mention an Omniversal Nexus:
How about Roma (with a gesture)
plucking the dead from Past when they were alive,
and re-introducing them into the Present anew:
Better yet,
how about Roma telepathically manipulating everyone,
in every Universe in the Omniverse close to the Tower Nexus:
Oh shiat! ... Roma's packing Omniversal Telepathy ...
The "trans-tier" league has a new champion.
-------------------------------------------
Anyway, I'm not going to entertain this, but I wanted to just add that.
Have a great weekend yall! 🙂
Originally posted by Mr Master
Doesn't have to be if you can harness the source of those energies from said location.p
Okay, but if Man-Thing and Havok could do so, doesn't that mean that basically anyone could? Such as Surtur and his servants?
TOAA is not a character constricted to or even belonging to the Omniverse.
Well even though he represents the Marvel company and the writers and editors, he still exists as a fictional character that appears within Marvel comic storylines.
You got a point concerning the LT.What can I say,
in the original story and the 'return of Jaspers' in Die by the Sword,
he was unstoppable save for the Fury.Now, imo, if the LT was allowed to stop Jaspers, I'm sure he could,
the LT can come as a representative power of TOAA like he did with Warlock.My point was, that since Jaspers would simply take over (replacing reality with his)
the LT wouldn't interfere, so no one would stop him.
I disagree on that latter point, I think replacing reality with his own version would be something the LT and his boss would not approve of. But my point was that LT could stop MJJ based on LT having the feats and showings that indicate he is powerful enough to stop him. So you can say the same thing for other characters, even if they are not Marvel characters.
... addressed.
I must have missed that then.
I'll look into it.They probably conquered the "capitol" sorta-speak of Otherworld,
which is the Starlight Citadel and the Island it hovers over.Also Mike, Otherworld contains several separate significant Worlds/Realms,
containing Skyfathers, (Celtic gods & others) Demons, (Netherworld) Magical beings, & strange races,
so it's literally impossible for Otherworld to have been converted into a piece of land.
Well the story indicated that they were all conquered.
Oh I see. That was never made clear that I've come across,
although it's a lot of material, I've covered much across the years
but still got more to go.It's also difficult because Merlyn was portrayed differently at certain times,
sometimes, although very powerful, he didn't seem "all-powerful" (early Britain titles)
but then in other stories same era, he's doing uber stuff.But my friend, I've come to the understanding of Comic books,
that's the way it's always going to be for every character of great power
that has to meddle with humanoids, in order to keep the story not only interesting,
but to be able to make a story at all.Otherwise, it's "god-like X" pops up, waves his/her hand, ... end of story.
That ... doesn't work.
Well yes, but you have to keep in mind that by that same logic, you can't use Character A's absolute best feats ever, and then say that since Character B beat Character A in one instance, then Character B is stronger than all of those feats. For example you could say something like:
- Punisher beat Daredevil
- Daredevil beat Spider-Man
- Spider-Man beat Doctor Doom
- Doctor Doom beat the Beyonder
Therefore Punisher beats the Beyonder.
Yes, that's an extreme example, but you get the idea.
*snip Otherworld stuff*
Well that does seem to prove your point. Although it's possible that stuff has been retconned by the recent Everything Burns arc. Not really sure about that.
Not really. Cross-company debates (especially in my preferred genre)
usually end up in hostility, trolling, endless back & forth
and even sock accounts pop up for support,
or a mod will agree with his favorite poster and close the thread.Bottom-line, companies have different standards and different absolutes,
this is why it doesn't mix well matching them up. (again, especially in my preferred genre)Skyfather, herald, meta/heores and what not is ok I guess,
but when it comes to the Cosmics .. or powers that reach out into space-time ...nah.
But you get gems like the Flash dropping the omniverse on people's domepieces 😆
TOAA is referred to as "God" or "TOAA" or "the Almighty" or "the Supreme Power" ...
there's no such thing as "often" ... when you're referring to one incident.TOAA (writer/artis Avatars) has appeared 5 times on panel,
and has been mentioned several times aside from that.
Well I was saying that when you referred to God in Marvel with a capital G, as in the one supreme God, you were talking about TOAA, but you said you weren't.
*snip*My friend, every story doesn't conform to every other story,
there's always going to be inconsistencies, senseless outcomes,
pointless endeavors to achieve a task, disconnected historical data,
and most notably, inserted nonsense (pis) to end the story.Our job is to filter out as best we can absurdities,
in order to arrive at a meaningful conclusion, or compromise.
That's what I'm doing, in order to make sense of the MJJ story in the context of the wider Marvel cosmic heirarchy, it makes sense that if the Fury hadn't stopped him, LT would have.
If you don't know, you shouldn't "presume" since that would imply probability.And there is none.
Wanda wasn't replacing Eternity/Infinity like Thanos did,
Wanda "tore the Omniverse to pieces"
and it WAS "re-arranged" into un-balanced CHAOS![img=http://s3d3.turboimagehost.com/t/13408526_Omni_bash.jpg]
[img=http://s3d2.turboimagehost.com/t/13408519_ChaosW2.jpg]
This doesn't seem like something the LT should allow.
Yes but in the end the overall changes were minimal, LT probably saw this with his omniscience/precognition so didn't interfere. Whereas in the case with Adam Warlock, he saw that something seriously bad was going to happen if he didn't do anything, so he stepped in. The same could be true for MJJ and the Fury, but what I'm saying is if things were different and the Fury didn't stop him, then LT would.
What I meant was, that Wanda, ER, the CCU from the C-Engine Trilogy,
Is that last one even canon?
Originally posted by Astner
Wasn't it Thanos who made Deadpool immortal, due to jealousy?
Even if that example is suspect , we do have an on-panel occurrence of Loki restraining Death using his own magic .
There's also the instance of the In-Betweener summoning her , ordering her around like his cleaning lady , an act of disrespect which she apparently never forgot .
Originally posted by Mr Master
Interesting, when Merlyn's never used the CN,
or even hinted at ever needing to use it.stoned
Also, I suppose creating from scratch an Infinite Universe
made up of several Realities can be seen as trans-tier.Already proven above.
Not too mention an Omniversal Nexus:
How about Roma (with a gesture)
plucking the dead from Past when they were alive,
and re-introducing them into the Present anew:Better yet,
how about Roma telepathically manipulating everyone,
in every Universe in the Omniverse close to the Tower Nexus:Oh shiat! ... Roma's packing Omniversal Telepathy ...
The "trans-tier" league has a new champion.
-------------------------------------------
Anyway, I'm not going to entertain this, but I wanted to just add that.
Have a great weekend yall! 🙂
Originally posted by NotSoBadBoring
The same scans as always.
I wait for " Beyonder was more powerful than real world people.
He discovered us" uhuhu
Now after I took your statement and unveiled the horse shit behind it,
you return with this poppycock which accuses me of using the same ol' scans,
when I've NEVER in my nearly 7 years with KMC have EVER presented that scene where Roma displays Omniversal Telepathy,
I've also NEVER presented the full page of Roma manipulating Time.
On top of that comedy, I've NEVER said,
"Beyonder was more powerful than real people" ... because Shooter said "He discovered Us"
Everyone who is true here knows I've said that when Shooter said that,
it could be taken as,
Beyonder was above Shooter's Avatar (fictional illustrated representative of writer/artist)
So, what is this ... your what ... 36 or 37th post in over 2 Years you joined KMC?
Yea, there's no doubt from the ass-nonsense you're spewing,
and now this direct OFF-Topic driveling attempt at lessening my credibility
by falsely twisting my words from other threads concerning Beyonder ...
... gives you away plainly.
Now Trolls, are more active than you,
although your comic book knowledge so far
could easily fall under the category of a Troll. (post to post without knowing shit)
But, it's the lack of posting that highlights the Socking!
So that, added to the fact that you're posting fallacies here,
further coupled with useless endeavors at demeaning another poster's name here
by bringing up Beyonder 😐
and then shamelessly Lying about the context behind the accusation.
Cool ... so whoever's Sock account you are, do your thing and fulfill your purpose,
but definitely welcome to my IGNORE list.
Socks that are used to support the prime account are bad enough,
but you're a pure Trolling Sock all in one.
Yea, yea return with a post packed with fiery words and personal attacks, 😂
go ahead and say something clever.
Bust all the nuts you want doing this,
I won't care and I won't see it. HAHAHA!!
*******
Peace and love to all the true debaters.
We don't need this kind of garbage at KMC anymore friends,
let's work together to dis-spell these useless basement dwelling,
mommy *** sucking, hairy palmed, walking with their heads down at school losers.
I'm tired of these living wastes of space that come to our Forum
to give it a bad name.
Anyway, Reported for Trolling Socker ... I mean .. sucker.
"Everyone who is true here knows I've said that when Shooter said that,
it could be taken as,
Beyonder was above Shooter's Avatar (fictional illustrated representative of writer/artist)"
"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. " Joseph Goebbels (Third Reich Minister of Propaganda in Nazi Germany from 1933 to 1945).
![[img=http://s3d2.turboimagehost.com/t/13408402_OtherW1.jpg]](http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/13408402/OtherW1.jpg.html){kind=link}
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