Originally posted by bluewaterrider
But isn't this what you're doing? I'm showing you something from the most recent actual COMIC that Colossus was shown in, sans being Colossusnaut or Phoenix Colossus, and YOU are the one telling me what you think [b]"should" be right, based on Colossus's appearances in yesteryears. You're not going by what the comics themselves today are actually saying, are you?Maybe the following might work:
Tell me what YOU think Batman would have to do in order to score a win here. You're telling me Colossus will thunderclap, though he hasn't done so to anyone's solid recollection in his entire history, to disperse Batman's gas and smoke.
You tell me that Colossus is fast even though Cyclops, pursued by pretty much the entire X-Men team of his time, was able to elude Colossus and everyone else with a set of busted ribs, which, by the way, he was only able to inflict on Cyclops because Cyclops was caught off-guard, thinking the X-Men were his friends and teammates as always, AND was pulled in by one of Storm's suction drafts. You tell me that Colossus is perfectly capable of leaping to great heights, even though I personally have never seen such a thing and even though no one on the pro-Colossus side can remember seeing that either.
Elsewhere you decry what you call "ABC" logic, "if character x can do the following, character y similar to character x can do the same" yet here are using the rationale that because other people in Colossus strength class have thunderclap and leaping feats, such should be well within Colossus reach too.
This despite such NOT being in character for Colossus (since the character has never, to most anyone's knowledge done these things), which the forum versus rules say should be a primary consideration.
You're moving the goalposts too much. I get the distinct impression that you would even argue at this point that a collapsing building (such took Colossus out on our light-gravity moon back in the original Dark Phoenix saga) would leave Petey unaffected.
Prove me wrong. Give me a reasonable comic-book based measure of force Batman needs to reproduce in your mind to score a knockout on Piotr. Make it justifiable and not arbitrary.
We'll see if we can plausibly match it given Batman's M.O., his standard gear as the OP stipulated, and the setting of New York City and go from there. [/B]
No, I'm telling you what the AVERAGE is, in accordance with the rules of the forum. You don't get to pick one comic that suits your position; you go by averages. That's the rules of the forum and that's how we do things, and have done for a while now.
-I honestly don't think Batman can win without some sort of outside assistance.
-Nobody said Colossus was faster than Cyclops; just that Colossus is fast; as he has enhanced reflexes that allow him to move in his metal body as quickly as he could in his normal body without any sort of hindrance.
-When did I say Colossus could jump really high? Please point me to that post.
-That isn't what I'm doing at all. That's your assumption. I genuinely remember seeing him thunderclap a ways back, and I've been looking for the scan for a bit now. So no, not ABC logic.
I'm not moving any goalposts. At all.
A collapsing building really shouldn't affect Colossus in his current state, no. Not after two solid upgrades.
I don't think Batman can do it without higher yield explosives or some sort of means by which he can change Colossus back to normal.
In general, I don't think Batman CAN win, given the stipulations.