Batman vs Colossus

Originally posted by pym-ftw
Gasoline fire burns around 1k F
Diesel burns at about 300F

2500c is around 4500F

Your argument is invalid

If Marvel comic writers thought the flame from gasoline tanks and vehicle explosions and the like made for low temperature fires you'd still have the concussive force of those things to deal with, and Petey's been knocked out by things as low level as Sebastian Shaw slamming him into the wooden walls of the Hellfire Club.

Moreover, such is hardly the only method Batman has for producing heat. More than that, there's no reason the process has to be hot then cold. The reverse should work just as well and Batman actually seems to carry a pen laser around with him as fairly standard equipment as well. You can see it at work in the aforementioned Hush skirmish, and you can also see it in Supergirl #5.

As it is Marvel comic writers treat gasoline fire as a very hot fire indeed. In Marvel Team Up #150, for instance, it is actually hot enough for the half-powered Juggernaut to feel, even as the flame from another gasoline explosion, a tanker truck, was enough for Cain to feel, though just barely, at FULL power, when taking on Spider-man the first time around. Even a million volts of electricity didn't seem enough for the author to say Juggernaut was registering before that point.

Again, though, it's the combination of hot and cold that must be stressed. Neither alone is expected to do the job -- and neither needs to.

Originally posted by Mshinu
Those are theoretical values. The heat you get from an actual flame of say, propane, is much lower. A burner with a proper mix of oxygene fed directly into the flame would maybe reach 1/3 of those values. I happen to have done acutual measurements on this as part of my work is running a fire lab. The heat also drops VERY rapidly with distance from the ignition point.

Again, how will bats do it?

Your work in the lab has little bearing on what a Marvel Comics writer thinks. Having said even that much, though, is giving a lot of credence to the idea that a controlled fire in a lab matches what you'd get if a car exploded from a bomb and you were near THAT kind of flame. Even that ignores, again, that it is not heat alone I've been suggesting. If you're wondering how Batman introduces cold, though, that's easy. He actually carries around freeze pellets with him. Actually, if my understanding is correct, he and the Bat-family even carry around so-called "freeze-a-rangs".

Freezing pellets again ...

Batman has zero chance of winning this fight.

I'm recalling now a scene where Batman is fighting in the Contagion storyline. Some guy dies due to a timer and bomb implanted in him.
A white phophorus grenade is used to burn the body and the deadly plague it's carrying. I can't swear its Batman's bomb, though, for I distinctly remember Hitman being in that story and he wanted that guy dead. It's been too many years since I've seen that story to remember the issue number or even the exact title. If white phosphorus is something Batman carries though, the problem of taking Peter down, even WITHOUT liquid nitrogen pellets, might be pretty simple -- THAT stuff has a 2,800 degree celsius flame it produces, and, from my understanding, tends to stick to whatever it hits and continue burning even without the presence of oxygen.

Not something to fool around with.

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m15.htm

(See "white phosphorus" for Wikipedia entry)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hand_grenade

Why would Colossus have a problem with White phosphorus?

Originally posted by Silent Master
Why would Colossus have a problem with White phosphorus?

Because it's a substance that

1) adheres to what it strikes,
2) creates temperatures higher than the 2500 degrees Celsius that Karima stated for Colossus's melting point in X-Men Legacy #243,
3) continues burning even without the presence of oxygen,
and
4) can be thrown as a grenade by an assailant from a safe distance.

Throw any significant bat-coolant on Petey after he's doused with that stuff and down Colossus goes.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
If Marvel comic writers thought the flame from gasoline tanks and vehicle explosions and the like made for low temperature fires you'd still have the concussive force of those things to deal with, and Petey's been knocked out by things as low level as Sebastian Shaw slamming him into the wooden walls of the Hellfire Club.

Moreover, such is hardly the only method Batman has for producing heat. More than that, there's no reason the process has to be hot then cold. The reverse should work just as well and Batman actually seems to carry a pen laser around with him as fairly standard equipment as well. You can see it at work in the aforementioned Hush skirmish, and you can also see it in Supergirl #5.

As it is Marvel comic writers treat gasoline fire as a very hot fire indeed. In Marvel Team Up #150, for instance, it is actually hot enough for the half-powered Juggernaut to feel, even as the flame from another gasoline explosion, a tanker truck, was enough for Cain to feel, though just barely, at FULL power, when taking on Spider-man the first time around. Even a million volts of electricity didn't seem enough for the author to say Juggernaut was registering before that point.

Again, though, it's the combination of hot and cold that must be stressed. Neither alone is expected to do the job -- and neither needs to.

The Laser cutter + Freeze pellets still relies on Colossus just standing there and not fighting back

The only heat I recall actually damaging Colossus was Pete Wisdom's "hot knives" and IIRC those were said to be hotter than the sun.

I'd need to see feats of WP level heat damaging Colossus.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Because it's a substance that

1) adheres to what it strikes,
2) creates temperatures higher than the 2500 degrees Celsius that Karima stated for Colossus's melting point in X-Men Legacy #243,
3) continues burning even without the presence of oxygen,
and
4) can be thrown as a grenade by an assailant from a safe distance.

Throw any significant bat-coolant on Petey after he's doused with that stuff and down Colossus goes.

No it does not, and to say Batman would use WP in New York city is foolish

It can also burn through any Batsuit, also if Bruce breathes it in he will die

😮‍💨

Originally posted by Mshinu
How will bats find a heat source of 2500°C and keep Petey exposed to it for long enough for him to melt? Even thermite would not get that job done.

Interesting that you bring this up.

I actually googled and found that Wikipedia has an entry for Batman's Utility Belt.

Not only that but they feature thermite grenades.

They also mention the phosphorus-based grenades I brought up.

So, apparently we have at least one means of taking Petey down using just Batman's standard equipment and nothing from the environment at all, since both the 2500+ degree celsius phosphor grenades AND freeze capsules seem to be part of what normally goes around his waist.

(from Wikipedia)
Thermite Bat grenades: An incendiary used to burn[36] through obstacles. In Batman: Year One, the thermite charge ignited accidentally and destroyed the utility belt. Although they are identified as Thermite, it is safe to assume that Thermate is used instead. (The former is a World War II technology which has largely been replaced by the latter.) In Judgement on Gotham (1991), Batman is equipped with a phosphor-based incendiary device.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batman's_utility_belt

And what will Batman do when Pete punches him while covered in WP?

Or, Batman throws the grenade and Colossus uses a thunderclap which sends it back towards Batman.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Your work in the lab has little bearing on what a Marvel Comics writer thinks. Having said even that much, though, is giving a lot of credence to the idea that a controlled fire in a lab matches what you'd get if a car exploded from a bomb and you were near THAT kind of flame.

You brought up temperatures listed at wikipedia, I merely pointed out that a real flame does not nearly burn at those theoretical values. A burning car does not burn that hot either.

As for grenades.. you would need more energy to heat petey up. A matchstick might burn at 800 celsius but I would not heat the russan up noticeably if I stuck it at his skin.

Just to put this out there this is not Classic Colossus this is Colossus before he became Juggernaut I didn't say Classic Colossus.

Originally posted by Mshinu
You brought up temperatures listed at wikipedia, I merely pointed out that a real flame does not nearly burn at those theoretical values. A burning car does not burn that hot either.

As for grenades ... you would need more energy to heat petey up. A matchstick might burn at 800 celsius but I would not heat the russan up noticeably if I stuck it at his skin.

In the comics you don't need more energy than a grenade provides which is world's more than the matchstick and quite sufficient to the task.
Especially if, keeping Batman in character, we're going for Batman taking out Colossus's knee or something of the like to put him down without killing him.

As for the freeze-a-rangs I mentioned:

The Freeze-a-rang episode takes place in Batgirl Volume 3 if memory serves correctly. The villain's name is Diesel.

They actually have a Stephanie Brown "wikia" that describes what you see here:

Damian's distaste for Stephanie was only intensified on their first official meeting. Batman and Robin burst in while Stephanie was fighting the villain Diesel. They charged into the fray before Stephanie could explain that the bad guy bled gasoline, and Damian ended up on a puddle of petrol with the fiery villain. Ignoring Oracle and Batman's warning, Stephanie flung some ice disks at the pair. Unfortunately, she ended up freezing Damian along with the villain.

Damian did not take this well, later telling Stephanie that he hated her and wanted to stab her, which freaked her out and made her angry. He also mentioned that he would much rather have met Cassandra, because she sounded wonderful.

http://stephaniebrown.wikia.com/wiki/Damian_Wayne

What is Batman going to do when Colossus re-directs all of his ranged attacks via thunderclap?

Someone posted that Colossus survived absolute zero and that Iceman said he was the only one who could survive it which I would assume is colder then a freeze a rang

Is PIS on for Batman?

No