Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Ehhh many hints in KOTOR I hint that Malak surpassed Darth Revan
Indeed?
For all his supposed idiocy, I'm rather fond of Malak: pragmatic and direct, as all Sith should be. Your Master is cornered by a Jedi strike force? Open fire. Your elusive target is running rampant throughout the underbelly of Taris? Glass the planet. When she's eventually captured and you wish to co-opt her abilities for your own use? Don't bother with persuasion, torture her into submission.
Bane. He is far more powerful than Malak.
Unquestionably Bane is far more powerful than Malak and will stomp him in less than two seconds.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Bane. He has better feats in both lightsaber combat and the force. To be frank, Malak is pretty much unknown in terms of how good he is in a fight, since we only have the video game to go on. Bane on the other hand has an very well-documented abilities, and they're very impressive.
Yes, Bane is much better explored in mediums but this does not indicates that he will walk all over over other prominent individuals in history who happen to be less explored.
To be fair, I think that both can win or loose in this fight. The possibility of loosing to a ruler of a formidable Sith Empire isn't going to dent Darth Bane's formidable reputation and standing.
It is just that Darth Malak is immensely underrated in terms of skill and power when his accomplishments demonstrate otherwise. Loosing to Revan at the height of his power doesn't means that he is a looser. Fact is that Revan is too damn powerful.
Originally posted by Darth _Sadow1
Bane. He is far more powerful than Malak.
Originally posted by Q99
Malak's pretty strong, but he was never able to beat Revan for a reason. He's a step down from the top tier Sith.
I think that Darth Malak is logically a top tier Sith material; only heavily underestimated. And I am sure that you now agree with me on this.
Originally posted by Ascendancy
Bane, whether in Force, sabers, or all out. I've seen nothing that indicates Malak would be capable of surviving the full brunt of Bane's Force techniques or his saber skills.
Originally posted by Nephthys
If I recall those hints were just Malak boasting that he was more powerful. Right before Revan punked him.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
For all his supposed idiocy, I'm rather fond of Malak: pragmatic and direct, as all Sith should be. Your Master is cornered by a Jedi strike force? Open fire. Your elusive target is running rampant throughout the underbelly of Taris? Glass the planet. When she's eventually captured and you wish to co-opt her abilities for your own use? Don't bother with persuasion, torture her into submission.
Originally posted by Q99
If that's the case, then I'd *still* say Malak's a level below the top tier Sith. That'd just make Darth Revan lower as well (if it's true). [/B]
Bane wasn't surprised that Kas'im didn't recognize the quote. The words had been written by Darth Revan nearly three millennia earlier. The Masters were as lax as the students when it came to studying the ancient writings. It seemed the Academy had turned its back on the past champions of the dark side. (Darth Bane: Path of Destruction)
Darth Revan's canonical standing is that he is among the most powerful and dangerous Sith Lords in history.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Bane stomps.
I don't see why people think so lowly of Darth Malak in comparison to other big names within the history of the Sith Order when he have infact demonstrated sufficient skill for the said purpose. He have demonstrated the ability to handle multiple opponents simultaneously in single combat on several occasions (like other very powerful Sith Lords) and have successfully managed and commanded a whole Sith Empire (which few have done). Only Revan defeated him and this duel aboard Star Forge according to the author of the story was of epic proportions:
"You might have min-maxed your character to smack Darth Malak down in seconds without breaking a sweat, but in a book that battle would have been a brutal, hard fought affair spread over multiple pages." (Drew Karpyshyn)
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenDAsk Drew Karpyshyn and he will tell you something different. 😉
Why don't you quote Drew saying something different. Otherwise, your argument is baseless. Revan is the Sith of note whom Bane learned from, not Malak.
You can say as you like that you feel Malak is underestimated in terms of where he falls, but when threads about the top Force users/duelists ever pop up, Malak never seems to get the nod.
The burden is on you to show something speaking to Malak demonstrating being at a level above and beyond Bane. His orbalisk incarnation leaves him almost invulnerable and pumped in the Force, and his DoE abilities have been noted quite thoroughly, including his ability to survive saber combat while completely unarmed.
Originally posted by Ascendancy
Why don't you quote Drew saying something different. Otherwise, your argument is baseless. Revan is the Sith of note whom Bane learned from, not Malak.You can say as you like that you feel Malak is underestimated in terms of where he falls, but when threads about the top Force users/duelists ever pop up, Malak never seems to get the nod.
The burden is on you to show something speaking to Malak demonstrating being at a level above and beyond Bane. His orbalisk incarnation leaves him almost invulnerable and pumped in the Force, and his DoE abilities have been noted quite thoroughly, including his ability to survive saber combat while completely unarmed.
No he is right, Malak on the Star Forge is stated to have given redeemed Revan a tough ass fight. Also I am almost positive that the Council comments on Malak rivaling Revan in power.
From Drew:
"You might have min-maxed your character to smack Darth Malak down in seconds without breaking a sweat, but in a book that battle would have been a brutal, hard fought affair spread over multiple pages."
In other words Redeemed Revan>Malak (just barely). Malak is probably the person who would be the most familiar with Revan's power level. He's a pretty viable source. In defeat he says that Revan was more powerful than him and more powerful than he ever was as the Dark Lord.
Also the way how Revan goes power wise is
Novel Revan>Redeemed Revan> Darth Revan
Also if we want to go by Drew statements.
Revan=Vader=Bane
Originally posted by Ascendancy
Why don't you quote Drew saying something different. Otherwise, your argument is baseless.
Drew considers Darth Malak as a master of lightsaber combat. Also, Drew believes that a fight between powerful individuals can swing either way depending upon the circumstances.
Originally posted by Ascendancy
Revan is the Sith of note whom Bane learned from, not Malak.
Originally posted by Ascendancy
You can say as you like that you feel Malak is underestimated in terms of where he falls, but when threads about the top Force users/duelists ever pop up, Malak never seems to get the nod.
He was a powerful Jedi:
Powerful individuals from Lord Adasca to Squint to Demagol learn that Jarael might be more than she acknowledges-or realizes. (Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Guide)
And he became even more powerful Sith Lord:
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Darth Malak:"Because they were known heroes of the Mandalorian Wars, many Jedi Knights regarded "the revanchist" and his former apprentice Alek as champions, and eagerly joined their cause." (Jedi vs. Sith: The Essential Guide to the Force)
NOTE: Reputation does not comes out of thin air; it is earned with achievements.
"Or that they would discover relics created by the pre-Republic Rakata civilization as well as numerous Sith artifacts, and used these in combination with their dark side powers to very nearly crush the Republic?" (Jedi vs. Sith: The Essential Guide to the Force)
"The Council had decided that the amnesiac Revan, reconditioned with a new identity as a Force-using soldier of the Republic, would be their best chance to defeat Malak. And they were right." (Jedi vs. Sith: The Essential Guide to the Force)
NOTE: Revan was the only Jedi in the Galaxy; capable of stopping Malak in his best days.
Aboard Leviathan, Darth Malak single-handedly engaged Carth Onasi (a highly decorated Republic Officer), Bastilla Shan (a powerful Jedi) and Revan (extraordinarily powerful Jedi) simultaneously and held his own against them forcing Revan and Carth to retreat while he subdued Bastilla Shan in single combat. This battle alone should elevate his position within the ranks of elites of the Sith in history.
You will be surprised that why I considered Bastilla Shan powerful?
A Jedi strike team assembled to capture Revan-and redeem him, if possible. Under the command of the powerful Jedi Bastilla Shan, the strike team attacked Revan's flagship, boarded his vessel, and confronted the mighty Sith. (Star Wars The Old Republic Encyclopedia)
At the height of his power, Darth Malak was labelled as "nearly unstoppable" in the official databank.
Originally posted by Ascendancy
The burden is on you to show something speaking to Malak demonstrating being at a level above and beyond Bane. His orbalisk incarnation leaves him almost invulnerable and pumped in the Force, and his DoE abilities have been noted quite thoroughly, including his ability to survive saber combat while completely unarmed.
At peak, both Bane and Malak seem to be nearly unstoppable, IMO.
That, I have to say, is a much better argument for Malak's abilities. His strength is not lacking, and that augmented by whatever artifacts are mentioned above, but I'm not seeing any speed feats that make him more capable than DoE Bane, or direct assertions about his skill in the Force that would give him a chance against Bane in orbalisk armor.
Again, Revan is noted by Bane for his knowledge and who he was to the Sith and Jedi of his era, but per actual showings neither he nor Malak have their mantles taken up by anyone as the best of the best in threads on the greatest of all time. Feel free to correct me if you disagree.