Darth Malak vs Darth Bane

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I have requested you to elaborate that why do you think that DoE Bane is superior to RoT Bane with orbalisks.

How is he not?

DoE Bane could beat RoT Bane with speed - or simply juice him with some Lightning, which thanks to the orbalisks, would induce a poison that would kill him.

Yeah, he doesn't need Orbalisks, and Bane is much faster/skilled/more powerful later, anyway. So duh?

Duh?

How did you need me to elaborate on that? How could you not figure that out for yourself?

Did you forget about that stuff? Have you not read excerpts from those books?

What?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

And for your kind information, I don't need to re-learn Star Wars; I have a talent for predicting things (of logically assessing) with high accuracy. Time and again, many of my-what once used to be claims-have been validated later on. Therefore, don't underestimate me. 🙂

From what I hear from the others, it's the opposite actually.

I understand that you're very illogical, which is why you willfully ignore things and make up crap time and time again.

So while I don't underestimate TheTempest - I do underestimate you Legend - because you're a crappy Debator, unfortunately.

You might need to re-learn Star Wars again.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

You didn't get my point perhaps; many people assume that RoT Bane is his peak incarnation.

Nobody assumes that, what are you talking about?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

I agree with this.

This thread considers peak Malak; Star Forge Malak perhaps? 🙂

The setting is not Star Forge though.

Bane would still beat Star Forge-enhanced Malak as well.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

His performance aboard Leviathan is nothing short of impressive. He handled the trio of Revan, Carth and Bastilla simultaneously and proved that he is an ELITE combatant. Revan may not have beeen in his prime condition during this encounter but he still would have been a formidable threat in this encounter.

Bane could stick amnesic-Revan, Bastilla and Carth in his ass.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Interesting; now answer my question above.

Yeah, DoE Bane could kill those three without breaking a sweat.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

I understand the power-progression thing; however, what about circumstances?
Bane got artifical power boost with orbalisks during RoT as an example. Without orbalisks, RoT Bane's command of the Force may have been lower then that of DoE Bane's. However, with orbalisks?
In an another example; when Revan confronted the Imperial Strike Team aboard The Foundary, he wasn't in his prime condition due to a very very long period of torture he endured previously.
I assume that you will get my drift here.
Also, I am not interested in exchanges of insults and such. Please refrain from doing so.

With or without Orbalisks, RoT Bane's strength with the Force would still be lower than his DoE incarnation.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Revan's reaction-rate is such that he can perform major moves with speed of thought or better.

- Yeah, so can every Jedi or Sith.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

This is peak Malak, bro.

He'd still get crushed. Even with the Star Forge.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

I know.

Good, always remember the teachings of Master Nephthys.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Far over Revan? Is this the reason why you underestimate Malak in comparison to Bane? Hmm!

Doy?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Well, I shall remind you that Revan have cut a swath through a Sith army; if Bane have demonstrated comparable performance then let me know. As far as I know, Caedus and Luke have.

Done what? Killed a lot of people?

Yeah, Bane has done that. And he would rape Revan.

I like both characters and I think Revan is close to Yoda in power, and maybe even fencing-ability - but I know Bane is better and would rape him.

What I see in your response above is epic display of blind fanboyism with little quantification.

I am not interested in your likings and neither personal likings have any bearing upon my judgements of characters in these kinds of debates.

Statements like Bane will rape others is not going to convince me. I am not interested in your opinion. I am interested in logical and cogent assessment of things at hand.

Once again, Bane is not the unstoppable juggernaut of destruction that fans make him out to be; he got his @ss kicked by Zannah regardless of his talents (Yes, Zannah used Sith Sorcery but this is part of her talents); he didn't won the fight with aid of orbalisks either; and his victory over Kas'im is setting oriented (Yes, Bane's raw power did change the outcome in his favour but had Kas'im and him fought in a different setting where none had advantage over other in any context, result could be different); he apparently have realistic vulnerabilities that can be exploited by other powerful opponents.

In contrast Revan have superior showings in combat; his performance aboard Star Forge is one of the greatest display of power and skill in the mythos; his performance against Nyriss (a master of Sith Sorcery as well) reveals what he can accomplish with his raw power; and he nearly assassinated arguably the history's most powerful dark side master (whose command of Sith Sorcery is unparalleled). Sorry kid! Revan is Bane's superior in power and skill. Evidence and logical assessment points towards this conclusion. On the basis of this observation, it is not unreasonable to assume that peak Darth Malak will be a match for peak Darth Bane.

You may cling to fanciful interpretations of feats but I will stick with evidence and logical assessment. Thank you.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I am interested in logical and cogent assessment of things at hand.

That's new.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Once again, Bane is not the unstoppable juggernaut of destruction that fans make him out to be; he got his @ss kicked by Zannah regardless of his talents (Yes, Zannah used Sith Sorcery but this is part of her talents); he didn't won the fight with aid of orbalisks either; and his victory over Kas'im is setting oriented (Yes, Bane's raw power did change the outcome in his favour but had Kas'im and him fought in a different setting where none had advantage over other in any context, result could be different); he apparently have realistic vulnerabilities that can be exploited by other powerful opponents.

In contrast Revan have superior showings in combat; his performance aboard Star Forge is one of the greatest display of power and skill in the mythos; his performance against Nyriss (a master of Sith Sorcery as well) reveals what he can accomplish with his raw power; and he nearly assassinated arguably the history's most powerful dark side master (whose command of Sith Sorcery is unparalleled). Sorry kid! Revan is Bane's superior in power and skill. Evidence and logical assessment points towards this conclusion. On the basis of this observation, it is not unreasonable to assume that peak Darth Malak will be a match for peak Darth Bane.

You just described your own response, perfectly. 😮‍💨

Dafuq are you talking about S_W? Both Bane and Kas'im were amped by the planet. What dafuq kind of setting presents a locale where neither has an advantage over the other as you put it? They both have the ability to draw on the dark side of the Force last I checked. You're freaking drunk.

Acting like Zannah owned Bane is ridiculous as well. She did win, as well could be expected as he himself said that she had the potential to surpass him in every way. By all rights she should be pretty legendary by the end of her reign in terms of mastery of the Force.

I can't believe you seriously quoted Revan killing a few Mandoes with a thrown saber as part of your argument for Malak being superior to Bane. Malak may not be some punk, but even Tyrranus would give him a good run; Bane would crush him time after time after time.

Originally posted by Rookwood
That's new.

Originally posted by Rookwood
What I see in your response above is epic display of blind fanboyism with little quantification.^

You just described your own response, perfectly. 😮‍💨

Mark of blind fanboys: they casually and systematically dismiss any evidence that might conflict with their worldview.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Applicable in your case.

Not yet. And you won't ever try to use logic in this argument, because you will know you have lost. 😎

I accept your concession.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

I notice desperation and lack of reasoning from you. Useless statements from you indicate that you have lost this debate. However, blind fanboyism will prevent you from conceding defeat; blind rejection is what you will now resort to. Typical...

Mark of blind fanboys: they casually and systematically dismiss any evidence that might conflict with their worldview.

You've proven yourself to be the blind one. 😮‍💨

I essentially turned your own description back on you, to reveal how blind and fanboyish you've demonstrated yourself to be.

But instead of seeing this, because you are blind, you've tried to nudge aside the truth I've shown you, in order to ramble and play a game of attrition, that you will eventually lose.

Checkmate. 😎

Originally posted by Ascendancy
Dafuq are you talking about S_W? Both Bane and Kas'im were amped by the planet. What dafuq kind of setting presents a locale where neither has an advantage over the other as you put it? They both have the ability to draw on the dark side of the Force last I checked. You're freaking drunk.

Secondly, you display similar mindset as that blind fanboy Rookwood does concerning Bane. You guys cannot see the big picture here and are lost in fanciful interpretation of events concerning a character.

Bane had decent knowledge of the setting and he used this knowledge to his advantage; Kas'im became a victim of his arrogance. Yes, Kasi'm lacked the ability to prevent tons of debris to crush him beneath (he is not as competent as Malgus as an example). He relatively lacked in knowledge of the setting; cunning ways of the Sith of the past; and unwittingly played into Bane's trap. In contrast, Bane did a marvellous job in this fight; he carefully but surely took advantage of Kas'im's lack of foresight; and when he found an opening, he exploited it to gain victory. I do credit Bane for this victory but we need to keep in mind some important "ground realities" of this encounter.

Had this duel taken place in a different setting where Bane wouldn't have had chance to crush Kas'im beneath tons of rubble; outcome may not have been in the favour of Bane. This is my intended point. I can see the big picture here but it requires impartial judgement. Let us see, if you are capable of impartial judgement.

Originally posted by Ascendancy
Acting like Zannah owned Bane is ridiculous as well. She did win, as well could be expected as he himself said that she had the potential to surpass him in every way. By all rights she should be pretty legendary by the end of her reign in terms of mastery of the Force.

Originally posted by Ascendancy
I can't believe you seriously quoted Revan killing a few Mandoes with a thrown saber as part of your argument for Malak being superior to Bane. Malak may not be some punk, but even Tyrranus would give him a good run; Bane would crush him time after time after time.

Killing a couple of Mandalorians is not the point here; the speed with which Revan kills them via Saber Throw technique is the important highlight of the cited information. Since Rookwood was busy glorifying the speed feats of Bane; I had to remind him that he should not underestimate Revan without basis, which he continues to do unfortunately.

Obviously, Revan's combat in Rekkiad is just a minor glimpse of what he had been through the Mandalorian Wars and other battles.

Originally posted by Rookwood
Not yet. And you won't ever try to use logic in this argument, because you will know you have lost. 😎

I accept your concession.

Originally posted by Rookwood
You've proven yourself to be the blind one. 😮‍💨

I essentially turned your own description back on you, to reveal how blind and fanboyish you've demonstrated yourself to be.

But instead of seeing this, because you are blind, you've tried to nudge aside the truth I've shown you, in order to ramble and play a game of attrition, that you will eventually lose.

Checkmate. 😎

You have presented an opinion of yours in which Bane rapes any one else. This is your worldview, genius. It has no bearing on what the associated author thinks about this kind of subject and nor it reflects positively on canonical accomplishments of Bane.

You have no logical argument but only fanciful interpretations of feats to rely upon; but this isn't enough. Difference is that I have understood your point of view and have sympathized with it but you haven't reciprocated in similar manner and have casually and systematically dismissed any evidence that conflicted with your worldview. You are as blind as one can get about these subjects.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
If self-delusion makes me happy; I can bask in it.

Truth? I know nothing of the truth.

I have presented an opinion of mine in which Revan rapes any one else. This is my worldview, genius. It has no bearing on what the associated author thinks about this kind of subject and nor it reflects positively on canonical accomplishments of Revan.

I have no logical argument but only fanciful interpretations of feats to rely upon; but this isn't enough. Difference is that you have understood my point of view and have sympathized with it but I haven't reciprocated in similar manner and have casually and systematically dismissed any evidence that conflicted with my worldview. I, S_W_LeGenD, are as blind as one can get about these subjects.

I realize that I have lost, and concede.

Your concession is accepted. 😎

If you had continued, you would have fared no better than, say, Revan against Sidious.. 😄

It's good you learned your lesson.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

You make it sound like as if Mandalorians are chump or suck in combat? My intention was to quantify speed feats of Revan. By doing so, we can form a logical assessment of where Malak stands in the context of quantification. Perhaps you need to pay proper attention to the provided information and the intent behind it.

Killing a couple of Mandalorians is not the point here; the speed with which Revan kills them via Saber Throw technique is the important highlight of the cited information. Since Rookwood was busy glorifying the speed feats of Bane; I had to remind him that he should not underestimate Revan without basis, which he continues to do unfortunately.

Obviously, Revan's combat in Rekkiad is just a minor glimpse of what he had been through the Mandalorian Wars and other battles.

As to the Mados, throwing a saber at a couple of surprised guards puts neither Revan nor by association Malak on par with Bane in terms of speed. Go rest your mind and come back when you're going to present a coherent argument as to your point. When this thread first started you at least gave examples that supported why you believed Malak had a chance; now you're just throwing out nonsense.

Originally posted by Rookwood
Your concession is accepted. 😎

If you had continued, you would have fared no better than, say, Revan against Sidious.. 😄

It's good you learned your lesson.

Originally posted by Rookwood
How is he not?

DoE Bane could beat RoT Bane with speed - or simply juice him with some Lightning, which thanks to the orbalisks, would induce a poison that would kill him.

Yeah, he doesn't need Orbalisks, and Bane is much faster/skilled/more powerful later, anyway. So duh?

Duh?

How did you need me to elaborate on that? How could you not figure that out for yourself?

Did you forget about that stuff? Have you not read excerpts from those books?

What?

From what I hear from the others, it's the opposite actually.

I understand that you're very illogical, which is why you willfully ignore things and make up crap time and time again.

So while I don't underestimate TheTempest - I do underestimate you Legend - because you're a crappy Debator, unfortunately.

You might need to re-learn Star Wars again.

Nobody assumes that, what are you talking about?

Bane would still beat Star Forge-enhanced Malak as well.

Bane could stick amnesic-Revan, Bastilla and Carth in his ass.

Yeah, DoE Bane could kill those three without breaking a sweat.

With or without Orbalisks, RoT Bane's strength with the Force would still be lower than his DoE incarnation.

- Yeah, so can every Jedi or Sith.

He'd still get crushed. Even with the Star Forge.

Good, always remember the teachings of Master Nephthys.

Doy?

Done what? Killed a lot of people?

Yeah, Bane has done that. And he would rape Revan.

I like both characters and I think Revan is close to Yoda in power, and maybe even fencing-ability - but I know Bane is better and would rape him.

This response is filled with dodging remarks, weasel statements and bold claims. And then you have the nerve to assert that I am a crappy debater. 🙄

You have also claimed that DoE Bane is superior to RoT Bane with orbalisks in power and skill; it is up to you to substantiate this claim.

I have stated this however:

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Bane got artifical power boost with orbalisks during RoT as an example. Without orbalisks, RoT Bane's command of the Force may have been lower then that of DoE Bane's. However, with orbalisks?

I have also debunked the assertion concerning Bane's supposed invincibility against Force powers from strong opponents such as this one:

Originally posted by Ascendancy
I will give that credence. I don't think Revan or Malak are to be cast aside as though they are nothing, but I also agree that Malak has shown nothing that demonstrates him capable of overcoming Bane, whether in sabers, Force alone, or all out.

This is where you jumped in to claim that DoE Bane is superior to RoT Bane in power and skill, correct?

Originally posted by Rookwood
Doesn't put him near his later incarnation. So irrelevant.

I would like to know why you think so.

But it seems as if you want me to debunk your assertion and I will gladly do it for you:

His living armor had made him nearly invincible in one-on-one combat, yet its monstrous appearance had forced him to remain hidden from the eyes of the galaxy. (Darth Bane: Dynasty of Evil)

You see what message this statement gives? That Bane reached his peak (was strongest) with orbalisks.

Also, read this:

Thus would the Sith line always flow from the strongest, the one most worthy. Bane's Rule of Two ensured that the power of both Master and apprentice would grow from generation to generation until the Sith were finally able to exterminate the Jedi and usher in a new galactic age. (Darth Bane: Dynasty of Evil)

You know what message this statement gives? That Bane may be arguably the weakest member in RoT lineage without support of orbalisks.

Now read this as well:

Age was beginning to take its toll on Bane, but it was nothing compared with the toll already wrought upon his body by decades of drawing upon the dark side of the Force. He couldn't help but smile at the grim irony: through the dark side he had access to near-infinite power, but it was power that came with· a terrible cost. Flesh and bone lacked the strength to withstand the unfathomable energy unleashed by the Force. The unquenchable fire of the dark side was consuming him, devouring him bit by bit. After decades of focusing and channeling its power, his body was beginning to break down.

His condition was exacerbated by the lingering effects of the orbalisk armor that had been killing him even as it gifted him with incredible strength and speed.

The parasites had pushed his body well beyond its natural limits, aging him prematurely and intensifying the degeneration wrought by the power of the dark side. The orbalisks were gone now, but their damage could not be undone. (Darth Bane: Dynasty of Evil)

If Bane had lived only 5 years more from the event of his demise, this is what would have been left of him:

In five years his body would be a ruined husk, and she could dispatch him with virtually no risk. (Darth Bane: Dynasty of Evil)

Now coming towards other assertions:

The rain feat which you cling to pushed Bane to his limits. He performed it with Form III by the way. This Form, as understood, grants its wielder virtually impenetrable parrying ability. Zannah used this Form to prevent Bane from overwhelming her with his martial abilities. She even acknowledged that she wasn't as good with the lightsaber as Bane was and yet she handled him. This game goes deeper then simple martial prowess; through the use of the Force, individuals can transform their weapons in to extensions of their wills.

In the nutshell, fans of Bane have heavily overestimated his abilities. He is powerful, smart and all that but he isn't the unstoppable juggernaut of destruction as his fans make him out to be. Bane's peak condition was with orbalisks and even in this condition, he was vulnerable to Force powers. Malak defintely packs the strength to handle an opponent like Bane and win. I rest my case.

As far as Revan is concerned, he outclasses Bane.

Originally posted by Ascendancy
I'm going to refrain from posting the entirety of your argument before this point because it's so weak that it doesn't even need to be acknowledged further.

As to the Mados, throwing a saber at a couple of surprised guards puts neither Revan nor by association Malak on par with Bane in terms of speed. Go rest your mind and come back when you're going to present a coherent argument as to your point. When this thread first started you at least gave examples that supported why you believed Malak had a chance; now you're just throwing out nonsense.

Revan have demonstrated the speed to dodge overwhelming blaster fire, grenades and even an electostaff strike physically and his reaction-rate is so good that he could perform major actions in a fraction of a second. His precognitive abilities are also extraordinary; he cut down an Imperial Guard individual in few steps. His performance aboard the Star Forge is remarkable.

The arguments which I have presented are cogent and have a purpose; you need a clear mind to understand what I am trying to convey here.

Also, learn from my response above to Rookwood.

Another important thing which I want to highlight is the fact that Bane was incompetent againt a foe who had decent command of Sith Sorcery; he did not demonstrated the ability to use the the Force to absorb and deflect powers composed of pure dark side energies. He attempted to fight fire with fire instead:

The tendrils were massing for another assault, moving faster as Zannah fed them with a steady stream of power. Bane unleashed violet lightning from his fingers, but when the bolts struck the sinewy black forms they were absorbed with no apparent effect. They were made of pure dark side energy, and there was no way he could harm them. (Darth Bane Dynasty of Evil)

This is where proficiency in Tutaminis comes in to play: Force abilities related to energy absorption. This ability often translates to difference between life and death.

Revan have demonstrated extreme proficiency in this aspect; he could use his raw power in the Force to absorb and even deflect powers composed of pure dark side energies back at their source. In this manner, he utterly decimated a foe who also happened to be a master of Sith Sorcery. It took the Sith Order's arguably most powerful dark side master to push Revan to his limits.

Bane holds no candle to Revan in competency with the Force. These revelations also explain that how Revan was able to blunt the effectiveness of Malak's dark side powers during the fight aboard Star Forge. Mind you, Darth Malak was also a practitioner of Sith Sorcery.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Also, learn from my response above to Rookwood, which is weak and unfounded.

😎

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Their is no concession on my end; I just lost interest in debating this subject with you on the basis of my inadequate responses to you:
As far as Bane is concerned, he outclasses Revan.

S_W_LeGenD, you are weak as a Debator, and do not even have the capacity to save Revan from Sidious in an debate. You *know* Revan would fall to Sidious like a weak puppy to a red-tailed Hawk. Revan has lost here.

😎

I am unfazed by your claims. Your defeat in this debate at my hands have lowballed you to trolling levels. I understand your pain.

B/W Don't misquote my statements.

Indeed, don't do that, Rookwood.

YouTube video

😆

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I am unfazed by defeat in this debate
B/W Don't misquote my statements.

Hey, it's just your way of telling me that you have lost, and that you concede to me.

In which case, I accept your concession. 😎