Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Oh, you were actually serious in thinking KMC has an anti-Superman/pro-Silver Surfer agenda?
Originally posted by PhilosophíaAnd I think that sells the High Herald level category short.
I don't oppose the idea that, in a very extreme sitution, with everything on stake and the only option, pre-DCnU Superman could probably move a planet (eventough that is very hard to prove based on actual arguments - in fact, consistency shows that he can't even in extreme situations, when everything is on the line - see JLA, New Krypton or whatever), but he'd most definitely be unconscious or exhausted right afterwards.Here, Superman does it as a training exercise, casually, for 5 days, out of the sunlight, and is literally "is that it?" afterwards.
The difference in magnitude is immense.
I'm tempted to battlezone people on this because it's so obvious for anyone who has actually read the comics.
Superman has held a black hole, something in which even light can escape do to the gravity.
Originally posted by abhilegend
These threads and replies made me think about it. Its not only superman though, hulk is a MAJOR victim of this too. I'm not talking about straight up hating but instead of a hate for his feats.
Now when you say "KMC" do you mean the forum as a whole, which includes people like yourself, Phil, Diesldude, Delta1938, Juntai, Pr, Galan, CosmicComet, Cogito, Prep-Man, Batman-Prime (all of which if they don't ardently support Superman within reason, are at least knowledgable enough about Kal as to not lowball his feats when supplied or looking at them) or are you really just talking about a handful of posters?
Because honestly, looking at the grand scheme of things and which "parties" various posters fall in, I really don't see how the majority of KMC's current members is opposed to Superman and looks for the chance to demean and lowball him every time. Unless those people are just very vocal and loud about it, which is kinda cancelled out by his hardcore supporters and people who are least reasonable enough to see what's what.
Originally posted by NewjakThen prove it with arguments, I'm right here.
And I think that sells the High Herald level category short.
I'll do a battlezone, and you can take the strongest high herald prior to this, pre-Flashpoint Superman, and I'll conclusively prove that he can't do this feat.
I'll even provide you with every scan you want for him.
Up front.
Originally posted by NewjakAgain with vague "this is strong, surely it means something"?
Superman has held a black hole, something in which night even light can escape do to the gravity.
Put solid arguments or don't put them at all, because this is just wasting my time.
Originally posted by -Pr-I think that had more to do with powerset. People gave Surfer a pass cause some people believed he could do anything.
To be fair, for the longest time Surfer did get more of a pass than Superman.Not as bad anymore, but still.
Originally posted by abhilegendI still think it's less to do with hate and more to do with people automatically assuming an incredibly impressive feat somehow equates to them steam rolling other people in the same category despite the fact those people also have incredibly ridiculous feats of their own.
These threads and replies made me think about it. Its not only superman though, hulk is a MAJOR victim of this too. I'm not talking about straight up hating but instead of a hate for his feats.
For instance Surfer can casually destroy a planet as a side of effect of his attack, he did so in annihilation.
Thor can survive in the sun without any issues to his being.
Flash-Point Superman can survive Supernovas and Blackholes
Green Lanterns can contain Big Bangs.
The point is once you get to a certain level, High Herald, those guys have such crazy feats all over the place it gets really hard to simply state said character can not do something when a writer could easily have said character do something and it not PIS at that level.
Originally posted by Newjak
I think that had more to do with powerset. People gave Surfer a pass cause some people believed he could do anything.I still think it's less to do with hate and more to do with people automatically assuming an incredibly impressive feat somehow equates to them steam rolling other people in the same category despite the fact those people also have incredibly ridiculous feats of their own.
For instance Surfer can casually destroy a planet as a side of effect of his attack, he did so in annihilation.
Thor can survive in the sun without any issues to his being.
Flash-Point Superman can survive Supernovas and Blackholes
Green Lanterns can contain Big Bangs.
The point is once you get to a certain level, High Herald, those guys have such crazy feats all over the place it gets really hard to simply state said character can not do something when a writer could easily have said character do something and it not PIS at that level.
Some of them still do, they just number less nowadays.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Now when you say "KMC" do you mean the forum as a whole, which includes people like yourself, Phil, Diesldude, Delta1938, Juntai, Pr, Galan, CosmicComet, Cogito, Prep-Man, Batman-Prime (all of which if they don't ardently support Superman within reason, are at least knowledgable enough about Kal as to not lowball his feats when supplied or looking at them) or are you really just talking about a handful of posters?Because honestly, looking at the grand scheme of things and which "parties" various posters fall in, I really don't see how the majority of KMC's current members is opposed to Superman and looks for the chance to demean and lowball him every time. Unless those people are just very vocal and loud about it, which is kinda cancelled out by his hardcore supporters and people who are least reasonable enough to see what's what.
Originally posted by Martian_mindI'll hold the line until you get back in. J'onn deserves to kick some ass.
I don't read DCnu, or Marvel anymore.In fact, I don't even read comics at all anymore.
And I STILL know Jonn takes anyone 10/10 ha-som
You should read the new Justice League of America with J'onn once it comes out. Supposedly it will prove he is the most dangerous being on the planet.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Obviously people other than who have actually read superman. You'd be surprised how many posters I'm taking account in here.
But considering our regular and semi-regular posters, do you honestly, deep down think there's a movement against Superman?
I mean, seriously. All of those posters, while they don't always agree on everything, at least don't outright hate him or his feats.
Unless you're bringing up old threads/posts made by people who don't frequent the forum or have since changed their mind, I just don't see this "majority is against Superman" thing. Even a good of people who aren't huge fans of his have at least said "wow, that feat is good/impressive/insane".
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
But considering our regular and semi-regular posters, do you honestly, deep down think there's a movement against Superman?I mean, seriously. All of those posters, while they don't always agree on everything, at least don't outright hate him or his feats.
Unless you're bringing up old threads/posts made by people who don't frequent the forum or have since changed their mind, I just don't see this "majority is against Superman" thing. Even a good of people who aren't huge fans of his have at least said "wow, that feat is good/impressive/insane".
Benching earth for 5 days without replenishment and only breaking a sweat is huge. I don't think anyone except superman (both pre-dcnu and dcnu) can do this.
Iirc Delta once postulated with Mathematics that lifting the tiny black hole was greater than lifting 1000 earth weights. That's greater than bench pressing a single earth weight. Then you have abhi's scan showing him supplying 1/4 the power of the Big Bang. This is greater than the power needed to bench earth for 5 days straight without replenishment. This shows that pre flashpoint superman has the strength and the power to replicate this feat.
I am not trying to downplay this feat and I agree that only a superman can perform it but it isn't enough to prove that the current superman is > pre flashpoint superman especially when this superman got concussed by a backhand.