Superman (DCnU) vs. Superman (Pre-Flashpoint)

Started by Batman-Prime11 pages

Originally posted by Astner
In what trajectory and in what time frame? It's in an elliptical balance around the sun, using the Earth's velocity to your advantage not much force is necessary to alter the orbit.

But with a force of over

you could stop the Earth in its orbit and move it around freely, as long as you don't get too close to the sun.

For reference that's about 6.09 10^18 tons on Earth, so six quintillions, which is an order of magnitude less than sextillion.

Your equation is an nice exercise for physic classes but it lacks important variables.

The mass of an object increases the faster it moves. Considering this alone it's pretty obvious that Earth has a bigger mass when it moves then when it's "still". The faster you try to accelerate the mass the more force you need, the more it's mass increases. Till finally you would need an infinite amount of force to move a mass that is relatively speaking infinite as it apporaches the speed of light.

So, you need more force to stop earth against it's direction of movement then simply lifting it (Lift a heavy stone, catch it when someone throws it at you with 29,78 km/s). The force you need to stop it and it's mass are significantly greater. When you lift earths mass you move it for a short distance, when you accelerate it further it's mass increases and the force you need to increase its speed grows. Basic physics. The time frame and the speed you want to reach are important. If you want I can calculate it for you h18 style once I get home, but common sense and basic physical knowledge should be enough.

Originally posted by Diesldude
Iirc Delta once postulated with Mathematics that lifting the tiny black hole was greater than lifting 1000 earth weights.

Originally posted by Diesldude
Then you have abhi's scan showing him supplying 1/4 the power of the Big Bang.
This just in - Superman supplying 1/4 the power of the Big Bang is now valid. It's irrelevant that weeks ago it was laughed at furiously - Superman just pulled a feat beyond any other high herald, so we must downplay it as much as we can.

Also, no, for the first one.

Originally posted by Philosophía
This just in - Superman supplying 1/4 the power of the Big Bang is now valid. It's irrelevant that weeks ago it was laughed at furiously - Superman just pulled a feat beyond any other high herald, so we must downplay it as much as we can.

Also, no, for the first one.

Nope that is still ridiculous

Originally posted by Philosophía
This just in - Superman supplying 1/4 the power of the Big Bang is now valid. It's irrelevant that weeks ago it was laughed at furiously - Superman just pulled a feat beyond any other high herald, so we must downplay it as much as we can.

Also, no, for the first one.

The point is these feats don't determine peer by peer comparison and any hero is capable of impossible feats in any given story this isn't exclusive to Superman, abhi.

http://s3d2.turboimagehost.com/sp/6aec5034a86e6fffac4460b33d0c7465/Avengers_Assemble-Zone-017.jpg
http://s3d2.turboimagehost.com/sp/4c269aa9ad787d94917a9b33b0251645/Avengers_Assemble-Zone-018.jpg
http://s3d2.turboimagehost.com/sp/4eefe6a613b226585d33e872da3656db/Avengers_Assemble-Zone-019.jpg

Have the tears dried yet, quanshee?

Originally posted by Newjak
Nope that is still ridiculous
It's about as ridiculous as saying that pre-DCnU Superman could bench-press Earth for 5 days, without sun, and saying "is that it?" afterwards.

Originally posted by Philosophía
http://s3d2.turboimagehost.com/sp/6aec5034a86e6fffac4460b33d0c7465/Avengers_Assemble-Zone-017.jpg
http://s3d2.turboimagehost.com/sp/4c269aa9ad787d94917a9b33b0251645/Avengers_Assemble-Zone-018.jpg
http://s3d2.turboimagehost.com/sp/4eefe6a613b226585d33e872da3656db/Avengers_Assemble-Zone-019.jpg

Have the tears dried yet, quanshee?
It's about as ridiculous as saying that pre-DCnU Superman could bench-press Earth for 5 days, without sun, and saying "is that it?" afterwards.

Nah cause the the way Abhi went about saying Superman supplied 1/4th of the power is ridiculous what I said wasn't.

Originally posted by Newjak
Nah cause the the way Abhi went about saying Superman supplied 1/4th of the power is ridiculous what I said wasn't.
Both stances are unsupported. Both are absurd to anybody who has read Superman. Both are basically a matter of common sense failure.

They're quite similar.

Originally posted by Philosophía
Both stances are unsupported. Both are absurd to anybody who has read Superman. Both are basically a matter of common sense failure.

They're quite similar.

No Pre-Flashpoint Superman has some crazy stand alone feats for strength.

We've already been over them.

Originally posted by Newjak
No Pre-Flashpoint Superman has some crazy stand alone feats for strength.

We've already been over them.

Yes, you've already got destroyed on your baseles stance.

I even extended the invitation to a battlezone, with me even providing you the scans, but then you went silent.

The sole difference between your stance and abhi's is that posters hate him, and they side with you because it favors their favorite characters, who they don't want stomped by Superman.

Originally posted by Philosophía
But the 'feat' in question is him literally lifting infinite weight. That's not a feat, so much is that, taken at face value, Superman could oumuscle anybody, ever to have been created. I don't see how anybody could agree with that.

In his pre-Flashpoint incarnation, it was quite clear in repeated scenes that he couldn't move a planet by his lonesome - everytime he needed help, and even with help he sometimes failed (keeping Earth in Orbit with Diana and J'onn or stopping the stray moon in New Krypton). Even under Jeph Loeb's big event OWAW he needed a sundip and him moving a planet was treated as a big deal. Maybe he could have done it in an extreme situation, but he'd been collapsing afterwards. Casually moving Earth for days without sunlight? That is something that is far beyond pre-FP Superman has shown or even been implied as capable of, and I don't see how anyone can argue otherwise.

It cant get any clearer than this.

Originally posted by Philosophía
Yes, you've already got destroyed on your baseles stance.

I even extended the invitation to a battlezone, with me even providing you the scans, but then you went silent.

The sole difference between your stance and abhi's is that posters hate him.

Nah you didn't destroy me, you just wailed on about them being too vague for you, but I don't really care about your opinion of them.

A BZ takes quite a bit of time, and I'm perfectly happy continuing to reply to you in this thread. It's not like the arguments are gonna change from one thread to the next.

Originally posted by Newjak
Nah you didn't destroy me, you just wailed on about them being too vague for you, but I don't really care about your opinion of them.
I said they were vague because you said "he did this, I have absolutely no argument for it, but they are at that level, because I say so".

You either argue your stance, or take a passive "I have no clue what I'm talking about, but I'm gonna talk about it anyway"

As it is, you're taking the latter. That's not debating. That's shadow trolling, coming from a mod.
I'm pretty sure I'm far busier than you are, yet I'd still do the battlezone.

Originally posted by Philosophía
I said they were vague because you said "he did this, I have absolutely no argument for it, but they are at that level, because I say so".

You either argue your stance, or take a passive "I have no clue what I'm talking about, but I'm gonna talk about it anyway"

As it is, you're taking the latter. That's not debating. That's shadow trolling, coming from a mod.
I'm pretty sure I'm far busier than you are, yet I'd still do the battlezone.

Explain to me how you are for certain you are far busier than I am, and can dictate how much time I have to give?

As for the rest Infinite Book, Blackhole incredibly powerful and heavy things. I don't see how you don't get that.

Originally posted by Newjak
Explain to me how you are for certain you are far busier than I am, and can dictate how much time I have to give?
You're a mod on this site, for one. You're more frequently on this site than I am (I catch gaps, like this one, where I can stay on for a bit).

But if you really want to compare schedules, feel free to post yours, lol.

Originally posted by Newjak
As for the rest Infinite Book, Blackhole incredibly powerful and heavy things. I don't see how you don't get that.
And like I said, for both of them:
a). Infinite book:

Originally posted by Philosophía
It's already being discussed. Don't tell me you believe Superman has infinite strength? As in, he is infinitely stronger than, say, Thor for example?
Originally posted by Philosophía
You don't have to say it.

You used Superman lifting infinite weight.

That means you say that Superman has infinite strenght.

Either stand by that, or not. Don't cry "stop putting words in my mouth" once you realize the absurdity of your argument.

b). Black hole:

Originally posted by Philosophía
Tell me, with actual argumentation, what level of strength does this feat imply? Or do you think throwing around "black hole" means anything, because you've heard it on the forum?

Originally posted by Philosophía
Prove what it imples. Give me evidence it's comparable to what Superman did here.

Show me anything, or stand down, and don't talk about things you're not knowledgeable about, just to seem knowledgeable.

Because, as it can be seen here, it only makes you look ridiculous. Because I'm not the type to let you get away with bullshit.

You're avoiding the fact that you're baseless and beating around the bush.

I'm not going to dance around you all night.

If you have time here, you have time in a battlezone.

I repeat the challenge: Battlezone - "Is Pre-DCnU Superman capable of replicating the feat?"

I'll provide you with every scan you ask.

We both choose the judges.

Otherwise, stop wasting my time.

Originally posted by Philosophía
You're a mod on this site, for one. You're more frequently on this site than I am (I catch gaps, like this one, where I can stay on for a bit).

But if you really want to compare schedules, feel free to post yours, lol.

And like I said, for both of them:
a). Infinite book:

b). Black hole:

You're avoiding the fact that you're baseless and beating around the bush.

I'm not going to dance around you all night.

If you have time here, you have time in a battlezone.

I repeat the challenge: Battlezone - "Is Pre-DCnU Superman capable of replicating the feat?"

I'll provide you with every scan you ask.

We both choose the judges.

Otherwise, stop wasting my time.

Posting 1 to 2 sentence replies is not the same as devoting time to a BZ,

You act like I actually need to prove my personal life or have you approve that my schedule is in fact too much for a BZ.

I don't.

I'll keep making my arguments here, if you feel I'm wasting your time please feel free to stop replying.

Reposting the same stuff you did before and acting like that somehow makes my claims baseless when they didn't means nothing to me.

I'm not here to prove anything to you so if you feel like I'm wasting your time please feel free to stop replying to me again.

I love all the chaos.

Superman. The Man. The Legend. The Icon.

Your FKN daddy.

What's the difference between what you're doing here and what you'd be doing in a battlezone?

Originally posted by Philosophía
What's the difference between what you're doing here and what you'd be doing in a battlezone?
BZs take more time and effort I'm perfectly okay with just posting in here, the question is why do you want a BZ so bad? It's not like it's gonna change anything.

Why does it take more time and effort? Aren't we both using and addressing the same arguments as in here, only with people reading and judging them?

I want a battlezone because this discussion is futile otherwise - you'll continue the shadow-trolling, and I'd just be wasting my time.

As it is, we'd have a post limit, and people actively reading and deciding what has been discussed.

Originally posted by Philosophía
Why does it take more time and effort? Aren't we both using and addressing the same arguments as in here, only with people reading and judging them?

I want a battlezone because this discussion is futile otherwise - you'll continue the shadow-trolling, and I'd just be wasting my time.

As it is, we'd have a post limit, and people actively reading and deciding what has been discussed.

Making longer posts, more detailed posts, more scan hunting(I don't need you giving them to me)

Here I just post one or two sentences clarify here and there which is perfectly fine with me. Personally I don't care about what back and forth futile discussion you care about. I've already given you an option stop replying if it bothers you that much.

People in this thread already analyze and discuss what's being posted between us.