Darkseid vs. Avengers/F4/GoTG

Started by JakeTheBank22 pages

Originally posted by Odekahn
But again the point is that characters like Hawkeye and Spiderman should be like flies bouncing off a windshield if his durability is anywhere close to Darkseid's. But they weren't. They were attacking with success.

Again, when Oliver Queen empties his quiver in Darkseid's back, call me.

Thanos can be harmed and injured by lesser forces. I haven't disputed that.

His damage soak, the factor that keeps him fighting in spite of those injuries and keeps him conscious, however, is extremely high, both by the standards set by Thanos' feat catalogue in general and this very comic.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Thor, Rulk, and Hulk, independently, all have feats to justify harming Thanos under their own power. Fact.

Coupled with everyone else's feats in addition to accumulating damage on to Thanos, I don't get why that can be argued.

Stop trying to use "Avengers Assemble" as the benchmark to weigh Thanos for a battleboard discussion when feats and histories in general are to be taken into consideration, not the events of a single comic.

As you said "Thor, Rulk, and Hulk, independently, all have feats to justify harming Thanos under their own power. Fact."

But what on earth Spiderman punching Thanos or Black Widow shooting would to him? Spiderman has a great record but please tell me what would the effect on Thanos would be if Spiderman was punching him, let's say for a week. In the face.
Would Thanos even register the hits?

Also I told you I don't consider the AA the benchmark for Thanos but I regard it as LEGIT IN CONTINUITY showing that drops his average.
And that is a FACT.

Originally posted by comicfan11
I agree that in comics scientists word holds some weight because they set the table for CONFIRMATION, but to accept them as fact they must first be PROVEN.
If what Tony said is confirmed in a following issue then I will agree to it as fact.
As of now it's just a hypothesis and nothing more. And it bears no relevance whatsoever until it is confirmed (NOT HYPOTHESIZED BUT CONFIRMED) on panel.

I understand the difference between durability and damage soak but given what I read on panel, there's no way Thanos isn't affected by the Trident attack. Koed? don't know. Killed? extreeeeeeeemely doubtfoul. Blinded? The majority of the posters on the other thread seems to agree and I'm with them.

At least we agree his stock dropped (and I'm sure you know that there are people who will try and spin it as completely irrelevant)
How much?
Let's just Bendis work his magic.

I guess I'll take Stark's words coupled with the fact that this was one of Thanos' lower showings as means to possibly explain why things went down the way they did.

Even if blinded, I don't think Thanos is at all helpless, much like Darkseid wasn't, so that's how I view such an attack if it connected.

People will either use this showing to discredit Thanos and present them in some sort of low light (when in reality, the feat's not that bad) as the norm to be used or a factor more significant than most when compared to the rest of his station

OR

Act like it didn't happen at all.

Personally, I take it into account and factor in with everything else I know about the Mad Titan. Also the fact that Bendis, regardless of canonicty, plays around with power levels on a whim. So to that end, this showing doesn't really effect my view on Thanos as a whole all that much.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Thanos can be harmed and injured by lesser forces. I haven't disputed that.

His damage soak, the factor that keeps him fighting in spite of those injuries and keeps him conscious, however, is extremely high, both by the standards set by Thanos' feat catalogue in general and this very comic.

I can agree to that.

But the difference is that where he was taking damage, Darkseid would not have. If that same team were fighting Darkseid, only 3 of them would even be contributing to the "damage soak".

And you put the JLA against Thanos, and that damage soak is going to get absorbed a lot quicker.

Originally posted by comicfan11
As you said "Thor, Rulk, and Hulk, independently, all have feats to justify harming Thanos under their own power. Fact."

But what on earth Spiderman punching Thanos or Black Widow shooting would to him? Spiderman has a great record but please tell me what would the effect on Thanos would be if Spiderman was punching him, let's say for a week. In the face.
Would Thanos even register the hits?

Also I told you I don't consider the AA the benchmark for Thanos but I regard it as LEGIT IN CONTINUITY showing that drops his average.
And that is a FACT.

Because in comics, when heroes attack en masse, even lowly streets and metas, they contribute to the end result. It doesn't make sense, much like ninja law in general doesn't make sense.

Drops his average, sure, I can get behind that.

Dropping to the point where it completely 'demotes' him or something? No, not really.

Cool
We agree on his stock dropping
But as you yourself said

"I guess I'll take Stark's words coupled with the fact that this was one of Thanos' lower showings as means to POSSIBLY explain why things went down the way they did."

It's still just a possibility and until proven it will remain just that.
That's indisputable.
To say otherwise would mean that every hypothesis a scientist made in comics is also correct which obviously is not the case
Meaning it doesn't bear any significance.
It's just an opinion

Furthermore we also agree (along with the majority of the other posters) that Thanos would most likely get blinded.

As for DS he was not blinded, as has already been proven by me, K-M and I don't remember if someone else also provided a refference.
At best he lost the use of his Omegas, but that's also not conclusive.
But blinded has already been proven wrong

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Smh.. There you go again. Hey, I gave you a pretty good background on the kind of blade it is. The fact that different writers describe it with phrases like "I had not thought you worthy of her victims, among them titans and immortals..." and "my blade is meant to be able to kill ANYTHING even gods" indicate it is not your ordinary run of the mill super blade. Seriously though, smh...

With Gamora(at the very least class 50) wielding it, Ol' Thanos absolutely no sold that shiet and broke on his skin. Even Ronan's universal weapon couldn't destroy it with matter manipulation.


Its still a weapon with no feats and only hyperboles. That's why it being shattered against a weakened thanos isn't surprising.

Neither Darkseid stands a chance against This many heroes.

Originally posted by abhilegend
What feats it had to make it so powerful other than a name? Thanos was never much durable against cutting attacks

Not to mention that he went out of his way to avoid morg's axe which didn't cut terrax in the same issue

Are you normally this stupid or just today? WTF would somebody just TAKE an axe shot from a high herald if he could block. So... THAT is your proof of he isn't durable to cutting attacks... Damn that was one of the worst posts I have seen in sometime. Congrats...

BTW.. should I post the pick of superman being impaled and hung against the wall? Should I post superman being tossed around like a weak feeb OVER AND OVER again in his history? many many more times than Thanos has. Shall we go there?

Originally posted by Odekahn
If that same team were fighting Darkseid, only 3 of them would even be contributing to the "damage soak".

huh? U kidding right? What about Ms. Marvel, Vision, Thing, Groot, Iron Man, War Machine, Iron Fist?

Originally posted by comicfan11
Cool
We agree on his stock dropping
But as you yourself said

"I guess I'll take Stark's words coupled with the fact that this was one of Thanos' lower showings as means to POSSIBLY explain why things went down the way they did."

It's still just a possibility and until proven it will remain just that.
That's indisputable.
To say otherwise would mean that every hypothesis a scientist made in comics is also correct which obviously is not the case
Meaning it doesn't bear any significance.
It's just an opinion

That's a rather arbitrary treatment of on-panel evidence. And character statements are on-panel evidence. Character statements may not be definitive proof, but they are not so bereft of probative value that they bear no significance. A random theory by a reader supported by no on-panel evidence would bear no significance. The only time a character statement bears no significance is if it is completely outweighed by on-panel actions and feats, e.g., "That blast will kill me," and upon getting blasted, he survives. That's when character statements are meaningless.

Here, a super-genius extrapolating data he's collected and telling other characters his assessment of the situation is not meaningless. That statement by Tony was not accidental. Writers can be fairly criticized for style, but in no way should we approach the comic's specific script as being careless or unintentional. There's a reason the writer had Tony say that.

More importantly, within the four corners of the comic book page, Tony was more than well-equipped to make such statements as he had the original schematics of the faux cube, had continued collecting data directly from Thanos, and was able to utilize the data to enact countermeasures to ultimately defeat him with the Elders' aid. He didn't make this statement in a vacuum. And this statement wasn't made by Hawkeye mouthing off about crap he could never understand.

It is true that there isn't concrete evidence to corroborate Tony's theory, as using Thanos' ignominious defeat itself as evidence would be self-serving. But that doesn't mean you dismiss this possibility. As it stands, Thanos' defeat is quite aberrational based on his entire history (an extensive one at that). There's a possible explanation for it provided by the comic. Without anything to contradict that evidence, we should accord it some faith and credit and adjudge that possibility as being the probability.

Besides, there were several instances where Thanos clearly lost control of the faux cube accompanied by blatant "oh sh1t" faces. And the faux cube was, in fact, a dangerously unstable prototype. It's possible Thanos took no damage (or only incidental damage) when wielding the faux cube's energies, but that's not likely from the plain reading of the comic and, moreover, completely unsupported.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Are you normally this stupid or just today? WTF would somebody just TAKE an axe shot from a high herald if he could block. So... THAT is your proof of he isn't durable to cutting attacks... Damn that was one of the worst posts I have seen in sometime. Congrats...

BTW.. should I post the pick of superman being impaled and hung against the wall? Should I post superman being tossed around like a weak feeb OVER AND OVER again in his history? many many more times than Thanos has. Shall we go there?


Terrax just did. Go ahead and post links if you can post them.

it sheds light as to Superman's upper strength and conversely, Darkseid's.

Let's not kid ourselves here, the exact same thing would happen to Darkseid under the same circumstances. And by circumstances, I mean Bendistances.

Not that that's an argument, but Thanos having pretty much his worst showing in forever is pretty telling as to the real reason.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
huh? U kidding right? What about Ms. Marvel, Vision, Thing, Groot, Iron Man, War Machine, Iron Fist?

Fodder.

Originally posted by Odekahn
Fodder.
Dude, aquaman alone stabbed out Darkseid's eyes. Thanos took on three teams and the Hulk would crap all over Aquaman or anyone on dcnu jla in terms of power alone. Thanos was just bloodied and wasn't ko'd.

Originally posted by Odekahn
Fodder.

Iron Man and Ms. Marvel alone can and have effected top tier beings...

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Iron Man and Ms. Marvel alone can and have effected top tier beings...
All of them have...

Originally posted by quanchi112
Dude, aquaman alone stabbed out Darkseid's eyes. Thanos took on three teams and the Hulk would crap all over Aquaman or anyone on dcnu jla in terms of power alone. Thanos was just bloodied and wasn't ko'd.

He didn't take his eyes out. Darkseid was fine. Plus that speaks more as a feat for his trident than it does his strength.

You make it sound like thanos just caught a nose bleed or something. He was on his hands and knees, bloodied and beaten with teeth missing. He got penetrated by arrows. He couldnt even fight back.

Originally posted by Odekahn
Fodder.

SMH.